We Go Again! The 2014/15 Premier League Thread

[Dolphin Ziggler]

First topic message reminder :

Well, as I started one for the Championship, it seems now is the time for the Premier League 2014/15 thread to begin!

We have all our teams, with Leicester, Burnley and QPR replacing Cardiff, Fulham and Norwich. Can City retain, can United break into the top four, how will Liverpool cope with Champions League football. All this and more can be discussed as we see how the transfers, the rumours, the World Cup and everything else make an impact on the Premier League before it all kicks off?

I'll open it up...the Telegraph, Sky Sports and others report Pochettino is top of Spurs' shortlist and could be unveiled in the next week. Thoughts? Sounds the perfect fit to me. Some suggesting he'll bring Rodriguez with him, although that sounds like immediate clutching to me.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Oh yes the legendary excuse for a poor performance by trying to vindicate it with a youtube video, those 5 minutes are just a small portion of the 120 minute, should have been subbed after the hour in my opinion.

Pretty sure using footage of things he actually did is more of a vindication than saying he was "poor" without any elaboration

Not really it just pinpoints all the decent things he did without highlighting all the misplaced passed, missed tackles and general poor play, a highlight video has never proved anything.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Again, I'm fine with the comments about Ozil needing Walcott etc, but I think Cazorla stepped up when needed and showed far more fire and in the end more skill than Ozil. You cant just be a player for the good days if you wanna be seen as £40m worthy

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Arsenal fans are really touchy on Ozil, which is pretty telling

Could say the same about Carroll... 

So tempted to go back through all of your posts about how RVW had a good season it was just everyone else's fault   

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Arsenal fans are really touchy on Ozil, which is pretty telling

Could say the same about Carroll... 

So tempted to go back through all of your posts about how RVW had a good season it was just everyone else's fault   

I adopted the Liverpool tactic of blaming everyone else...

[sportform]

So united have just signed a £750 million pound 10 year deal with Adidas apparently.

Great deal for Man United. Just a shame for the rest of the Premier League that Financial Fair Play will stop anyone from competing with them. Here's to another 10 years of Man United dominance.

[J.Benson II]

Yeah i must say, the Arsenal fans on here are very touchy. 

Me and Chris are agreeing on things!

I'm not an Arsenal fan.
Anyway, Boateng (MOTM) and Schweinsteiger were the only strong performers for Germany in the final, the rest were okayish. Ozil was no worse than Kroos or Muller for instance in that game. Not sure why it should be considered an "awful" performance.

[Derbymanc]

So united have just signed a £750 million pound 10 year deal with Adidas apparently.

Great deal for Man United. Just a shame for the rest of the Premier League that Financial Fair Play will stop anyone from competing with them. Here's to another 10 years of Man United dominance.

Looks to me like everyones completely ignoring FFP

[mystiroakey]

No premier league club is ignoring it. PSG are

when you look at the 75 m plus 52 mill(chevy) deals united have compared to the two 30m deals(emirates and puma) arsernal have- there there is quite a bit of difference.

[Hammersmith harrier]

These new deals do mean the Glazers won't be selling for a fair while yet, despite a poor season we're still the biggest cash cow in sport, interesting to see our profit levels next season.

[Derbymanc]

Yes they are, look at City, they've just been fined 35 million and are carrying on as normal, ergo it's being ignored.

If you really want to enforce it then ban the clubs from Europe.

[mystiroakey]

It hasnt been ignored- city haven't bought anyone or increased its wage bill.

City just have to not net spend over 50 mill or increase its wages and they will be let of the majority of there fine(they also have a CL squad cap as well as the fine btw)



every other pl team , even big ones (notable arsernal and chelsea) have been fully aware of the situation and have been dealing with any potential problems in advance. Arsenal a long way in advance- chelsea last season.

PSG on the other hand havent started of to well spending out 50 m on a 1 million pound defender

[Derbymanc]

 

Fair do's then (think your being generous with the 1m valuation.)

I'm of the opinion that FFP is another gimmick to try and convince everyone it's a fair playing ground. Like everything it will fall by the way side when the big clubs (Barca,RM, Man Utd, city etc etc) realise they've got to spend big to get up the league etc.

[mystiroakey]

FFP only helps the bigger clubs sadly.

It keeps Man u , Bayern, Barca and madrid right up there as they can broker these much better commercial deals.

Its all about revenue these days.

You cant just increase spending. What it has stopped is the potential for teams like PSG or chelsea to come about anymore. Because a rich owner can not just come in and make huge losses turning there team in to a major player

[Ent]

The idea of it is sound, it is just poorly implemented.

[CFCNick]

Clubs can rise up like Chelsea and PSG. As long as they balance their books within a few years of competing in UEFA competitions.

[Roller_Coaster]

FFP looks like it might backfire to me and could just benefit the bigger clubs (well, players and agents these days...) as alluded to previously.

If Utd can justify their commercial deals (which I suppose are at least independent of existing ties to the club and entered into by fully independent companies), can't Chelski and Citeh get their owners money in through their firms? Their justification being along the lines of "look at Utd, they aren't even Champions League, if their deals for £130m p/a is OK then surely our new improved stupid money deal is fine too.

Monsieur Platini, nous sommes deux doigts pour vous.

with apologies for likely terrible French!

[kingraf]

I think PSG (or City, can't recall) got a £400m sponsor from a Dubai firm. There are ways around FFP. And they aren't particularly inventive either

[FootballLight]

I`m not going to lie, Ozil did pretty much nothing all tournament. He worked for the team & showed some nice moments but all in all, he was average. The thing with Ozil is & GSC stated it, without a runner ahead of him or a striker with great movement, you don't get the best out of Ozil. At Madrid he had Ronaldo or Benzema & racked up the assists & looked world class. At Arsenal he has the stationery Giroud to deal with & his poor movement. Countless times Ozil would receive the ball, look up & see Giroud back to goal, instead of running in behind & he became frustrated. Ozil is about penetration through delivering pinpoint balls, he can't do that at Arsenal or with someone like Klose in the national side, who lacks pace & Muller who`s not a genuine no.9. Sanchez playing in the no.9 role might help Ozil significantly, especially on the break. I expect Ozil to improve massively this year & you always need to give a foreigner a good season to adapt, especially someone who`s physical attributes aren't suited immediately to the demands of the EPL.

I can pick out a few things wrong with this. First of all, Ozil is only world class when he alongside a striker that can make runs. Well, first of all, you can't just say that otherwise it is like saying that Messi wouldn't be world class if he didn't get the service from midfield, but he does, Ronaldo wouldn't be world class if he didn't get his service, but he does. So just because Ozil doesn't have one thing in his favour at Arsenal doesn't mean to say he isn't world class, by any means. Also, I believe Ozil likes to make runs in behind the striker as much as what he does play balls over to runners. The thing wrong with this is, he can use Sanchez, Cazorla, Walcott etc to play balls over the top to, because they have the pace to meet that ball, so that there is wrong, also, Giroud is a physical striker, can easily win flick on's from long balls, meaning Ozil can become more effective when he runs beyond the striker, even if it is at Giroud's feet, for the physical striker he is, Giroud is good with his feet and can slot through balls to Ozil there as well. Ozil isn't just about one thing, he is world class because he can adapt to play in various different styles. Fitness and no break got the better of him last season, that doesn't take a season or 2 to adapt to, it may take up to 3 years before he reaches his best, so don't be surprised if the same resulting season comes from him this season. But certainly, watch Ozil on TV/at games this season, look at his movement and ability on the ball and then judge him on his performance then, especially at the start of the season. To prove a point, you need to watch out for this stuff, because a lot of what you said in there is wrong.

[Hammersmith harrier]

FFP looks like it might backfire to me and could just benefit the bigger clubs (well, players and agents these days...) as alluded to previously.

If Utd can justify their commercial deals (which I suppose are at least independent of existing ties to the club and entered into by fully independent companies), can't Chelski and Citeh get their owners money in through their firms? Their justification being along the lines of "look at Utd, they aren't even Champions League, if their deals for £130m p/a is OK then surely our new improved stupid money deal is fine too.

Monsieur Platini, nous sommes deux doigts pour vous.

with apologies for likely terrible French!

It doesn't work like that, our deals are value for money because of the Manchester United brand and the expected sales of our shirts so you'd need to be a team with the same fanbase size to justify such a deal.

Champions league football won't actually come into because a short term absence won't affect the brand.

[Hero]

Conte has left Juve it seems due to not being happy over their transfer policy.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Being discussed in the European football thread, and tenuously in the transfer thread. On topic, Hero, please   

[Hero]

He may move to the Premier League   

[FootballLight]

Oh hi Hero, long time no see.

Conte I doubt will move to the Premier League unless anyone gets sacked. I doubt he will want to go anywhere that is out of Europe.

[Guest]

I`m not going to lie, Ozil did pretty much nothing all tournament. He worked for the team & showed some nice moments but all in all, he was average. The thing with Ozil is & GSC stated it, without a runner ahead of him or a striker with great movement, you don't get the best out of Ozil. At Madrid he had Ronaldo or Benzema & racked up the assists & looked world class. At Arsenal he has the stationery Giroud to deal with & his poor movement. Countless times Ozil would receive the ball, look up & see Giroud back to goal, instead of running in behind & he became frustrated. Ozil is about penetration through delivering pinpoint balls, he can't do that at Arsenal or with someone like Klose in the national side, who lacks pace & Muller who`s not a genuine no.9. Sanchez playing in the no.9 role might help Ozil significantly, especially on the break. I expect Ozil to improve massively this year & you always need to give a foreigner a good season to adapt, especially someone who`s physical attributes aren't suited immediately to the demands of the EPL.

I believe Ozil likes to make runs in behind the striker as much as what he does play balls over to runners. The thing wrong with this is, he can use Sanchez, Cazorla, Walcott etc to play balls over the top to, because they have the pace to meet that ball, so that there is wrong,


Fitness and no break got the better of him last season, that doesn't take a season or 2 to adapt to, it may take up to 3 years before he reaches his best, so don't be surprised if the same resulting season comes from him this season.

I said he needed pace in front of him, so he could deliver the balls through because Giroud lacks the pace in behind. How is that wrong what I said, do you not read what i said about Sanchez?   

Ozil at £42m needs three years of excuses about his fitness, until he's ready for the EPL?   He also had the whole of the xmas schedule off, so your wrong.

I really couldn't understand much of your points.

[GSC]

UKIP haven't been elected yet FL

[FootballLight]

That could see me gone anyway GSC, so I hope Farage pulls out of affairs. I still doubt he will manage anywhere that is outside of European football (I meant).

If you read what I put yesterday, it doesn't take one season for Arsenal to gain £42m worth of quality back. It will take many seasons, at least 3 before he gets to his prime, it takes time. If you read what I put yesterday, you would understand. What is there not to understand in that paragraph? I'm sure most of them points are valid, apart from the one you pointed out where I misread slightly, but still, he is still effective even with slow people in front of him because he can adapt to making runs past them.

[mystiroakey]

I think PSG (or City, can't recall) got a £400m sponsor from a Dubai firm. There are ways around FFP. And they aren't particularly inventive either

psg ran a 200m sponsorship deal through there parent company- but uefa rejected it even though its perfectly legal accounting. UEFA when auditing them for FFP halved the sponsorship to 100m for there purposes in evaluating them. BUt as others have stated if teams that finish 7th in the Pl and arnt in the CL yet still get 130 plus mill then it could be argued that a CL team could have better sponsorship- therefore parent company sponsership deals could rise and the teams could get away with it

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Word of advice

You can make a fortune off pre season betting. WBA were evens to beat Shrewsbury tonight. Evens!!!!! Easy money

[sportform]

The idea of it is sound, it is just poorly implemented.

Question, what is 'sound' about FFP? Just curious on someone else's opinion.

I am not Financial (un)Fair Play's biggest fan. It just guarantees the tradition big clubs like Barcelona, Man United, Real Madrid remain the big clubs and stops other clubs from trying to compete. I much prefer the free market football we had before. If the owners of Man City, Chelsea, PSG and Monaco want to spend their money to compete then good luck to them. I would much rather have several teams competing for leagues and cups than just a couple. Had there been FFP in the Premier League since 1992 then Blackburn, Chelsea and Man City possibly wouldn't have won the league and until last season (Liverpool) only Man United and Arsenal would have won the league.

For me, unless you have an NFL style league were everyone has the same amount of money to spend on transfers and wages, teams should be allowed to spend what they want. If you end up like Leeds or Portsmouth then that is you own fault.

[mystiroakey]

Ent is a man U fan Sport- FFP aids United more than any other club in England.

He would probally prefer bans from europe instead of fines and cl limited squads

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Word of advice

You can make a fortune off pre season betting. WBA were evens to beat Shrewsbury tonight. Evens!!!!! Easy money

Yet we were odds on to beat Stevenage and drew. Honestly, not worth it as you're betting without any knowledge of how teams will go at games

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

If you wait until the lineups are out you can get a fairly good idea

Still I'm not stupid enough to bet on west ham doing things conventionally

[kingraf]

I remember making some big money betting against City and United in pre-season last year. Bought some sweet rims. Thank You Moyes.

[Ent]

The idea of it is sound, it is just poorly implemented.

Question, what is 'sound' about FFP? Just curious on someone else's opinion.

The idea of financial regulations to stop clubs spending beyond their means appeals to me. I've no interest in seeing Leeds or Portsmouth type situations occurring.

Would also probably stop the top clubs stockpiling talent and keep player wages sensible.

Don't think the inplementation by Uefa is any good though.

[compelling and rich]

its very hard as a united fan to support FFP without others simply stating its because its suits us, the whole point as ent points out is to keep clubs long term stability safe. its all well and good saying club owners can do what they want but when they pull the plug after pumping money in the club then goes to pieces and the owners just swan off with no care in the world. chelsea and city are two lucky teams in that there owners are stupidly rich and could afford loss after loss but how many other clubs werent so lucky.

many may say that the likes of leeds and portsmouth deserved it, but under FFP they wouldnt be allowed. and i'd rather have leeds (a rival) still around then nearly go out of business and no longer a club at all. same with city, there screwed if there owners decide they have had enough

[Derbymanc]

I'm not 100 percent certain but can't an owner still pump money into a club as long as he turns it into equity so he's responsible for the debt not the club???

(I think FFP is an excuse by UEFA to say 'look we are doing something about Barca spending 75mil on a player and lying to the taxman' etc etc)

[GSC]

FFP is a publicity stunt designed to keep the elite elite. UEFA won't be risking Wee weeing off Madrid or Barca and them setting up their own CL.

[mystiroakey]

I'm not 100 percent certain but can't an owner still pump money into a club as long as he turns it into equity so he's responsible for the debt not the club???

(I think FFP is an excuse by UEFA to say 'look we are doing something about Barca spending 75mil on a player and lying to the taxman' etc etc)

I allways wanted the only financial rule within football clubs to have a limit on debt to equity.

say 70% equity to 30% debt- that would then stop the likes of teams being able to be ruined if the owner walks off.

Roman used to lend chelsea money rather than increasing equity(great in one respect as he didn't charge interest , but supporters of this didn't understand the problems associated with it)- so in the worst case scenario he could have demanded his money and jumped ship- that would kill the club. If he pumped in equity instead- he couldn't demand anything back from the club.

This is the point posters like compelling and ent are completely missing out on.(if we had a debt to equity ruling you wouldn't see like problems of leeds or pompy again. The FFP rules do nothing to stop these teams potentially going under, but as stressed this would..)

You see capital doesn't affect turnover or profit- only gearing.

Highly geared companies are at much higher risk of going under. Low geared companies are not.(highly geared = large external debt- low geared = high assets to debt ratio)

FFP does not address this problem. Its rules are based around profit which include turnover minus costs. not how the company/football club is geared.

The real issues in football are highlighted in Spain not the PL- with teams like athletico in 1bill euros of debt. FFP does not address this , and this is what is killing and hurting our game.

If some rich owner wants to pump England or other parts of Europe with Money- let him/her!! we need as much investment as possible, but make them pump equity in rather than get a bank loan or loan his own money. that way the club is in a much safer position.

[Derbymanc]

Cheers for that Oakey,

My assumption is that FFP is a plaster over a broken leg just to make it look like somethings being done so the clubs without a ton of debt can feel that they're doing the right thing whilst others don't bother.

I knew there was a problem with debt in spanish football but didn't realise it was that bad.   

[FootballLight]

Word of advice

You can make a fortune off pre season betting. WBA were evens to beat Shrewsbury tonight. Evens!!!!! Easy money

  Why have I never thought of this before, until you have just mentioned it? I could make an absolute boatload of money off pre-season betting. Obviously, not all will be right, but with a big accumulator, you can win so much. Betfred, here I come.

[Duty281]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/theo-walcott-returns-arsenal-training-3873582

Good to hear! I hope darling Theo manages a full recovery.

[Guest]

Not premier league exactly but City had to cancel an u21 game this evening after removing their players from the pitch in the first half following racist abuse to one of their players

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

"@jsullivanwhu: VERY BAD NEW REGARDING AC, TORN LIGAMENTS IN ANKLE... OPERATION TOMORROW WITH TOP SURGEON IN USA... WILL BE PLAYING IN 4 MONTHS"

Someone needs to take the horse out back and shoot him

[GSC]

The dangers of morphine doping in horse racing coming to pass I see. #prayforandy

[GSC]

Oh well, at least we get another season of excuses as to why Andy Carroll is actually good.

[Ent]

That scuppers Sams plans of hoofing the ball up to big andy for the next 10 months.

[GSC]

I don't see why an ankle injury affects his game.

[GSC]

If anything, a cast will probably improve his first touch.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Ha de har. Bloody shame, both for our finances and our chances this season. Gutted. But least we can have 4 months of people who don't watch us and just like to nonsensically slate Carroll making poor jokes about "hoof ball"

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Lallana to miss the start of the season with a knee injury

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