Ulster 2014/2015, Part 4

First topic message reminder :

God we love the sound of our own voices.

On a related issue, does the apparent witchdoctor voodoo that is practised by the medical team require some kind of human sacrifice or substitution of souls in a Faustian injury pact?

Exactly what I've been remarking upon amongst friends. What the heck is Dr D and GG doing outside of the usual medical practices as our players are showing supernatural healing abilities. Whatever it is they should tell Doaky and get it applied to coaching methods too
I have asked one of GG's best buddies to interrogate him on this by the way

It's going to be one hell of a boost if Henry comes onto that pitch tonight. They'd better get Kingspan in with some reinforcements for the roof.

Looks liek Coonacht and Zebre couldn't help us out yesterday. Bonus Point wins for Munster and Ospreys. Were Connacht resting players ahead of their Qurter Final or anything?

Connacht play Glasgow and Ospreys too after us. You would hope they would make life difficult for some of these teams, but I fear it might be us who struggles against them...

A recap on the remaining fixtures.

Ulster
Connacht
Leinster
Munster
Glasgow

(The last three will be as intense as if they were semi finals.)

Glasgow
Blues
Connacht
Ospreys
Ulster

Munster
Edinburgh
Treviso
Ulster
Dragons

Ospreys
Treviso
Blues
Glasgow
Connacht

Leinster
Dragons
Ulster
Treviso
Edinburgh

Current Standings
Glasgow 60
Ulster 58
Munster 58
Ospreys 56
Leinster 52


Ulster could quite easily lose their last three in fairness. I wouldn't be surprised. Leinster could easily win all their last four even with Champions Cup as their main focus.

Sadly I fear the odds are still against Ulster remaining in the top 4. Unless we seriously buck up our ideas.

For me, citing or no, I want Williams dropped. I'd be tempted to try Diack at 8 but more likely is that Wilson will return to the starting 8 jersey.

In fairness, we were forced to do some positional reshuffling on Friday night which wasn't planned but managed to get the much need 5points anyway.

With Wilson back along with Payne, Bowe and Best, can we finally find our groove this season when it REALLY counts. I very much hope so! Some selection headaches that's for sure.

Squeeky Bum Time!

They have a tonne of injuries Clive they were something like 13 players down yesterday which fora squad like theres is just huge. Also Henshaw couldn't play due to IRFU rules. They were close to Munster in the first half and indeed for large parts of the 2nd half but really fell away as the game went on. The certainly look like they will give us atest at the Sportsground next week.

There are worrying sounds coming from t'other forum about the possibility of Oldings injury possibly being career ending as ACL fixes rarely work as well the second time. I know it's just gossip but is there any substance to the claims?

It certainly looked like an ACL when it happened.

For all those thinking Ulster have too many centres - there has been a high turnover in recent seasons. Not just the loss of Nevin, but Chris Farrell missed most of his last season, Luke Marshall has missed more games than he's played, McCloskey has missed most of this season. Now Olding could be gone.

It would be devastating if true as he's the most talented of the lot. I'll be waiting for an actual medical opinion on it though. It certainly looks like his World Cup is up in smoke though.

McCloskey could/should be back for Connacht and Luke Marshall the week after, plus we still have Mike Stanley.

Isn't Stanley injured?

Charles Piutau to Ulster.

The catch?......

Not until 2016

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/67570274/all-black-charles-piutau-to-join-irish-club-ulster-after-rugby-world-cup

You have to wait for him, but that's still a huge signing for the club.

Makes sense. We only have Payne, Ludik, Nelson, Gilroy and Bowe capabel of playing fullback (and Olding when he returns).

Don Alfonso wrote:Makes sense. We only have Payne, Ludik, Nelson, Gilroy and Bowe capabel of playing fullback (and Olding when he returns).

Payne. 13 for Ireland
Ludik. Gone before he arrives.
Nelson..... Really.... Ahead of Piutau?
Gilroy. Winger.
Bowe. Winger
Olding. will he ever come back? and if he does will it be as a FB?

Also. I think Piutau can play anywhere in the back 3 and knowing those fiendish Kiwis probably in the Centre too.

Thats great news, can he play number 8?

I initially got excited about this, saw the headline, Ulster signs young all black, I was convinced it must be a back row, it had to be! Then when I saw it was another back excitement turned to apathy. Don't get me wrong, this guy is pure class, but we are desperately in need of quality backrows.

Yes another one bites the dust. Wonder if it's more about wanting to leave JKs side than joining Ulster. Class act.

BelfastDickVet - Just read something online stating that Charles Piutau has signed with you on a two-year deal, apparently worth $2M - not sure how much that is in euro's... Are they a day ahead in NZ? It could be an April Fool's joke

Whilst Kaino has re-signed with ABs on a three year deal.

The Saint wrote:Are they a day ahead in NZ? It could be an April Fool's joke

Bah! Got me.

It seems like an overly dry one for an April Fools joke. I wouldn't be disappointed if it's not true to be honest. It seems like a marquee signing for the sake of a marquee signing as opposed to actually strengthening where we are weakest. Especially if Ulster are held to the reduction in NIQ places.

We should be looking to replace Nick Williams. Of all the positions we have NIQ players in, the back three is where we can most afford not to.

If it's not a joke then you'd think the fans would have heard something and mentioned it in the weeks building up to the announcement. If not, he's a great signing. Very strong runner and very agile. ABs will be sorry to see him go.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:Makes sense. We only have Payne, Ludik, Nelson, Gilroy and Bowe capabel of playing fullback (and Olding when he returns).

Payne. 13 for Ireland
Ludik. Gone before he arrives.
Nelson..... Really.... Ahead of Piutau?
Gilroy. Winger.
Bowe. Winger
Olding. will he ever come back? and if he does will it be as a FB?

Also. I think Piutau can play anywhere in the back 3 and knowing those fiendish Kiwis probably in the Centre too.

All of those players are a decent standard at FB. Meaawhile, Clive Ross is a regular in our backrow, and Mike McComish has played European Riugby for us. If we had unlimited NIQ spaces, no woriies. As it is, we have more pressing matters than fullback. Is Nelson better than Puitau? Quite obviously not. Is Nelson a better fullback than Ross, Reidy, Butterworth or McComish are backrows? Quite obviously yes.

Although I'd quite happily take him as a replacemnt for Ludik.

Didn't know Ludik was on his way out. That was short-lived, and he was a good player.

He still has another year after this season.

Ah, but that post by Jen seemed to suggest he was going sooner. Hasn't Piutau played centre too? Or did I imagine that...

Played Wing, although according to reports he has played Centre this season.

If this is true, he won't be starting until the 16-17 season which makes sense. Hopefully the next big news is the signing of a top back row for next season.

Confirmed by Ulster - also, Olding out for nine months.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/pro12/ulster-confirm-all-black-charles-piutau-has-signed-two-year-deal-1.2159869

Piutau can play wing, centre (both 12 & 13) and fullback. I'm shocked but shocked in the very best way. I didn't think we would still attract attention from the top players but it seems Bryn's the man.
It's utterly gutting to hear about Olding though, a second reconstruction is not good news. Such an immense talent we've not had a chance to savour this season. Fingers crossed he makes a full recovery.

We don't need a back, so the cynic in me is thinking that he is coming to boost season ticket sales after a season of dross and poor uptake. But surely 500,000 a year is too much to spend for that ( NZL$1m)
But he is absolutely top drawer. And we are showing true ambition, so great news anyway. We still need a top drawer back row and have a shortage of NIQ spots. I am guessing we are offloading big Nick and Ludik.

Regarding Olding, I may be wrong but along with bad luck, has he bulked up too big for his frame?
Get well soon Stuart!

toml wrote:We don't need a back, so the cynic in me is thinking that he is coming to boost season ticket sales after a season of dross and poor uptake. But surely 500,000 a year is too much to spend for that ( NZL$1m)
But he is absolutely top drawer. And we are showing true ambition, so great news anyway. We still need a top drawer back row and have a shortage of NIQ spots. I am guessing we are offloading big Nick and Ludik.

Regarding Olding, I may be wrong but along with bad luck, has he bulked up too big for his frame?
Get well soon Stuart!

tom in a year/18months we will need a back, Bowe and Trimble are in their early 30s but will still hope to be part of the Irish setup going into the Lions tour, Gilroy, Marshall, McCloskey, Payne and hopefully Olding will hope to be there or there abouts too. Pienaar and Ludik will be gone so things will be depleted at that stage and we will still have room for a back row

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/32129584

By the looks of this he won't be coming to 2016 so it's likely that Ludik will be gone by then, he is absolutely top quality so I am ok with this signing althought we need a back row, if Lorcan Dow can step up thats one position covered but we still need another really, although I don't think we should underestimate just how useful Faloon will be next season when Henry isn't around.
As for Olding we would be lucky if it is only 9 months as they state and not the end, we can only hope for the best for him it would be terrible to lose yet another great young player.

Pienaar is signed up until 2017 like Herbst.

Ludik, Williams and VDM finish in 2016. (Currently. Unless you offload Williams to Quins as has been rumoured)

neilthom7 wrote:
By the looks of this he won't be coming to 2016

Didn't I say that in the first post on the topic above?

The Saint wrote:Ah, but that post by Jen seemed to suggest he was going sooner.

No. I said that Piutau was not arriving until 2016. When Ludik would be gone

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

neilthom7 wrote:
By the looks of this he won't be coming to 2016

Didn't I say that in the first post on the topic above?

Didn't you

You did Jen but I thought I'd repeat it since people didn't seem to have read that part lol

neilthom7 wrote:You did Jen but I thought I'd repeat it since people didn't seem to have read that part lol

Fair enough. People don't read sh1t generally

neilthom7 wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/32129584

By the looks of this he won't be coming to 2016 so it's likely that Ludik will be gone by then, he is absolutely top quality so I am ok with this signing althought we need a back row, if Lorcan Dow can step up thats one position covered but we still need another really, although I don't think we should underestimate just how useful Faloon will be next season when Henry isn't around.
As for Olding we would be lucky if it is only 9 months as they state and not the end, we can only hope for the best for him it would be terrible to lose yet another great young player.

Good point about Dow. Although I'll believe it when I see it as we are better giving journeymen games than young players

Ulster need quality players in every position. Piutau is a quality player and will help guys like Nelson and Scholes with their development.

It has to be borne in mind that some of the existing players may not be with Ulster by then, so this is good news.

Ulster do of course need an 8 - everyone knows that - especially Ulster...

Duane Vermulen. While you are lashing out that much cash. Sure y'might as well.

Need to ask Rory.

So at the minute whats our backrow options for next season presuming William does indeed leave
6- Diack/Henrderson
7. Henry/ Faloon
8. Wilson/Dow

Plus whichever of the rest of them we decide to keep. Well it's better than this years crop is one way to look at it. Only one real uncertainty in there is how good Dow will end up being, the rest we know how good they are.

We would have the Academy then too which currently has Joshua Atkinson and Frank Taggart are in. Does anyone know anything about them or how good they are?

If we signed a back row it would have to be an 8 or possibly a 6 because you don't want to sign a top quality 7 to displace Henry and if he is not going to displace Henry then he wont be top quality cos top quality wont want to play 2nd fiddle. I'd rather see Henderson at 6 but we don't know if that will happen so it's possible you can get a top drawer player here although Diack may not be overjoyed at that as he is on the edge of the Ireland squad so will want gametime.

Don Alfonso wrote:Confirmed by Ulster - also, Olding out for nine months.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/pro12/ulster-confirm-all-black-charles-piutau-has-signed-two-year-deal-1.2159869

Poor bar steward can't catch a break. He's spent more time on the treatment table that off it in his professional career. I suppose just being able to play rugby again would be the best possible outcome for him.

It says Piutau is coming in 2016, does that mean after he's finished with the SH 2015 season which would be halfway through our 2015/2016 season or is he coming after the conclusion of Super Rugby in 2016?

We definitely still need another back row and unless someone like Jordi Murphy is coming North (unlikely) it needs to be an NIQ.

Maybe the IRFU will let us replace Williams with another NIQ, giving us five.

Ulster have three 'Test class' backrows: Henderson, Henry and Diack. That's nowhere near enough. They badly need a top quality 8 and a flanker.

It is amazing the lack of ambition shown by some of the Leinster lads that they'd rather be vying to be second/third choice down there than competing to be first choice at Ulster.

The Great Aukster wrote:Ulster have three 'Test class' backrows: Henderson, Henry and Diack. That's nowhere near enough. They badly need a top quality 8 and a flanker.

It is amazing the lack of ambition shown by some of the Leinster lads that they'd rather be vying to be second/third choice down there than competing to be first choice at Ulster.

Aukster, they are all getting plenty of game time though and all of them have come through at Leinster so why move and become 2nd choice elsewhere?

With 8 senior back rows and 2 great ones in the Academy we still were down to the last few at one stage this season. Dominic Ryan has logged nearly 1500 minutes of gametime this season already and he is nowhere near first choice.

marty2086 wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:Ulster have three 'Test class' backrows: Henderson, Henry and Diack. That's nowhere near enough. They badly need a top quality 8 and a flanker.

It is amazing the lack of ambition shown by some of the Leinster lads that they'd rather be vying to be second/third choice down there than competing to be first choice at Ulster.

Aukster, they are all getting plenty of game time though and all of them have come through at Leinster so why move and become 2nd choice elsewhere?

Jordi Murphy has managed to get to the stage of being very likely to travel to the RWC without needing to nail himself down as first choice at Leinster; Rhys Ruddock has also made the breakthrough in similar circumstances. As long as they can make the step up to test level, there's little incentive to move. Even Dominic Ryan has got several caps for Ireland.

While they're not near test quality  I think Wilson and Faloon are good enough for the Pro12, but I really do believe we need at least one top class 6/8 compared with what we have. I would wonder how much longer Wilson has on the clock in any event. If the IRFU are going to strictly apply the 4 NIQ rule, not replacing Williams with a back rower at the expense of a fullback makes even less sense regardless of whether it's this year or next year he leaves.

Piutau is a really fine player who would grace any side. When considered outside the context of the teams strengths and weaknesses its a blinder of a signing. I just think he will make little difference if we don't also address those weaknesses, and soon.

Notch wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:Ulster have three 'Test class' backrows: Henderson, Henry and Diack. That's nowhere near enough. They badly need a top quality 8 and a flanker.

It is amazing the lack of ambition shown by some of the Leinster lads that they'd rather be vying to be second/third choice down there than competing to be first choice at Ulster.

Aukster, they are all getting plenty of game time though and all of them have come through at Leinster so why move and become 2nd choice elsewhere?

Jordi Murphy has managed to get to the stage of being very likely to travel to the RWC without needing to nail himself down as first choice at Leinster; Rhys Ruddock has also made the breakthrough in similar circumstances. As long as they can make the step up to test level, there's little incentive to move. Even Dominic Ryan has got several caps for Ireland.

While they're not near test quality  I think Wilson and Faloon are good enough for the Pro12, but I really do believe we need at least one top class 6/8 compared with what we have. If the IRFU are going to strictly apply the 4 NIQ rule, not replacing Williams with a back rower at the expense of a fullback makes even less sense regardless of whether it's this year or next year he leaves.

Notch in 2016 we lose 1 NIQ spot and the contracts of 3 are up so theres still room to sign a back rower if we cant unearth an IQ one from somewhere

Maybe not top class, but more the right player, look at Pedrie Wannenburg, he wasn't a big name player, but was one of our best signings in recent years. He wanted to play for the club and for the jersey, you could see that from the passion he brought to every game. Williams had that when he first came, it was like he was making the most of the massive second chance he got, but that passion seems to have fallen off recently. If Bryn wants to be a success, he needs to find the right players, and not just flashing the cash.

marty2086 wrote:

Notch wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:Ulster have three 'Test class' backrows: Henderson, Henry and Diack. That's nowhere near enough. They badly need a top quality 8 and a flanker.

It is amazing the lack of ambition shown by some of the Leinster lads that they'd rather be vying to be second/third choice down there than competing to be first choice at Ulster.

Aukster, they are all getting plenty of game time though and all of them have come through at Leinster so why move and become 2nd choice elsewhere?

Jordi Murphy has managed to get to the stage of being very likely to travel to the RWC without needing to nail himself down as first choice at Leinster; Rhys Ruddock has also made the breakthrough in similar circumstances. As long as they can make the step up to test level, there's little incentive to move. Even Dominic Ryan has got several caps for Ireland.

While they're not near test quality  I think Wilson and Faloon are good enough for the Pro12, but I really do believe we need at least one top class 6/8 compared with what we have. If the IRFU are going to strictly apply the 4 NIQ rule, not replacing Williams with a back rower at the expense of a fullback makes even less sense regardless of whether it's this year or next year he leaves.

Notch in 2016 we lose 1 NIQ spot and the contracts of 3 are up so theres still room to sign a back rower if we cant unearth an IQ one from somewhere

I wonder if Van Der Merwe will be renewed. With O'Connor, Henderson and Tuohy around he might not be necessarily needed but it would leave us with a corresponding lack of depth at lock.

BelfastDickVet wrote:Maybe not top class, but more the right player, look at Pedrie Wannenburg, he wasn't a big name player, but was one of our best signings in recent years. He wanted to play for the club and for the jersey, you could see that from the passion he brought to every game. Williams had that when he first came, it was like he was making the most of the massive second chance he got, but that passion seems to have fallen off recently. If Bryn wants to be a success, he needs to find the right players, and not just flashing the cash.

Was furious at Williams for his dumb and reckless clear out on Patchell, was almost equally furious at him taking two phases to slowly stroll back into the defensive line later in the match.

Notch wrote:

BelfastDickVet wrote:Maybe not top class, but more the right player, look at Pedrie Wannenburg, he wasn't a big name player, but was one of our best signings in recent years. He wanted to play for the club and for the jersey, you could see that from the passion he brought to every game. Williams had that when he first came, it was like he was making the most of the massive second chance he got, but that passion seems to have fallen off recently. If Bryn wants to be a success, he needs to find the right players, and not just flashing the cash.

Was furious at Williams for his dumb and reckless clear out on Patchell, was almost equally furious at him taking two phases to slowly stroll back into the defensive line later in the match.

I think dumb and reckless is being generous, watching it and his reaction there definitely seemed to be intent in what he did

It's hard to tell. I think it was reckless because thats what he does all the time in that situation, but players aren't normally in that vulnerable position Patchell puts himself in.

I'm not trying to exonerate him or anything. Reckless can still be red.