Ulster 2014/2015, Part 4

by **Notch** Mon 09 Mar 2015, 1:55 pm

First topic message reminder :

God we love the sound of our own voices.

by clivemcl Sun 05 Apr 2015, 4:06 pm

Thanks Roger, don't you realise we are trying to convince 606 that ulster isn't full of thugs? Not helping our image one bit. I'd be looking for the club to reprimand him too. This stinks of someone with money thinking they can do as they please.

by Guest Sun 05 Apr 2015, 4:18 pm

Bit silly really. People do makes mistakes though. Hopefully he learns from it, and doesn't repeat.
He can pay Ulster Rugby back by helping to win the Pro12 Very Happy

by Standulstermen Sun 05 Apr 2015, 4:52 pm

This is more than a bit silly Munchkin. God forbid he was in a collision what then? Thank God the police got to him before anything happened. I know people have been shipped out of Ulster for less.

by Guest Sun 05 Apr 2015, 5:24 pm

Sure it was stupid, but he is going to pay the legal costs, along with whatever UR decide to do, and, of course, the flak he will get from various media, and fans.
The sort of attention that Ulster Rugby could do without right now, but I think it would be a harsh judgement to sack him. As I've said, people makes mistakes, and if it's his first offence then he hopefully will learn, and not repeat.

I'm thinking now that when Ulster Rugby stated that Wilson was unavailable due to personal matters, was this driving offence the personal matter in question? Have they already suspended him?

by **Notch** Sun 05 Apr 2015, 5:25 pm

Ulster can't afford to sack him. They can't even really afford to suspend him.

by Guest Sun 05 Apr 2015, 5:27 pm

No, and especially not with Williams out. I hope they don't sack him, and I hope that his missing week was his suspension, if he's going to receive any. Fine him instead otherwise.

by neilthom7 Sun 05 Apr 2015, 6:00 pm

What the heck was he thinking, I absolutely detest people who do that, it's just a pity we have no real back up at this moment otherwise I'd say drop him but minus Robbie Diack there is no one you can play at 8.

by Standulstermen Sun 05 Apr 2015, 6:43 pm

I'm not saying ulster can afford to sack him. I'm saying if his name was Williams would he face the same punishment. I don't know in truth what the right way to respond to this is from an ulster perspective.

The 'personal reasons' excuse was due to this yes. I have no idea if ulster would class it as a suspension though.

by Guest Sun 05 Apr 2015, 6:51 pm

I would think that it was a suspension, if only for a week. Any further suspension at this point in time would be a double blow for Ulster. Self defeating. I think he should get a hefty fine though, along with a warning.

by clivemcl Sun 05 Apr 2015, 11:04 pm

With this kind of thing though, the needs of a team should not play a part. I'd be very dissappointed if Ulster's disciplinary actions were variable depending on who the players is, and their importance in a position.

If it were Williams, we'd be rubbing our hands together thinking we had just found our excuse to get rid of him.

Truth is, if he had crashed and killed my wife and son, and be looking him crucified.

Also, worth noting - he was tattled on. Somebody notified the police. Had this person tried to convince him not to? Had this person seen him do it before? Is this really a singular incident were he made a poor judgement call - or is this a danger to society who really ought to be chastised.

What's more, with a public sporting figure - I'd have no issue with the authorities using this as a platform to send a greater message to the wider Northern Ireland community. This is an unacceptable disregard for one's own safety and that of others. Intolerable.

by Standulstermen Sun 05 Apr 2015, 11:33 pm

I don't disagree with a thing you posted Clive except he can't be charged with causing an accident or injuring someone because it seems he didn't (I know you didn't post that but the inference is there). There's more to come out of this I fear.

Either way the sentiment in your post is spot on. I would have no issue with the law making a statement with him. What ulster should do I honestly don't know. I don't know does he deserve to made an example of by them or does he deserve some understanding and help.

When the headline beside this on the bbc news page is about an 11 yr old killed in a car accident in Fermanagh it is also particularly galling.

by clivemcl Tue 07 Apr 2015, 5:31 pm

Question. When do we start paying Piatau?

This article claims his contract with us begins in July. They say he will make himself ineligible for the All Blacks because he will have an ongoing contract during the time of the World Cup.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-standard/opinion/67626564/editorial-piutau-exit-shows-rules-arent-up-with-play

Incorrect journalism? When exactly do we get Piatau? January 2016? Or not until Summer 2016 when Ludik leaves? Anyone else still slightly confused? Headscratch

by **Notch** Tue 07 Apr 2015, 5:43 pm

Nope, not confused; just some good old fashioned incorrect journalism. They are jumping the gun by a whole year. Not only is he contracted to the NZRU for the RWC, he's contracted for the whole of Super Rugby 2016. He's only available to us from July 2016 which is when we start paying him.

They might choose not to pick him due to his decision to leave, both for the All Blacks and for the Auckland Blues in Super Rugby 2016 (as he'd be taking a spot from someone else who'd be New Zealand eligible). But whether he plays or not they have to honour his contract.

I think the only reason it has been announced so early by Ulster is that its got into the press. Or maybe because we have no marquee signings to shift season tickets this year. Maybe a bit of both.

by neilthom7 Tue 07 Apr 2015, 5:44 pm

According to most places including BBC we don't get Piatau until June/July 2016 and I very much doubt we would be paying for him when he isn't with us

by clivemcl Tue 07 Apr 2015, 5:50 pm

Ah ok then! So not only do we have to finish this season, but play a whole other one with not much difference of a squad. And only the second half of next season with a decent coach. When was the last time the signing of an all black was so not immediately comforting??

Of course we are in a good position, with Best, Trimble and Payne to come back in. Still though - not really feeling like we are in a good place at all.

Its all very unexciting - but could very quickly become exciting. I've my tickets for the final bought anyway in vague hope!

by **Notch** Tue 07 Apr 2015, 5:55 pm

We all knew that would be the case with the way the contracts are. It's still too far away for me to be excited about.

by Rory_Gallagher Tue 07 Apr 2015, 9:57 pm

I would be surprised if we didn't hear about another IQ signing of some sort who plays in the back row. Preferably a good one from Leinster/Munster. Probably nobody exciting though.

by Standulstermen Tue 07 Apr 2015, 11:05 pm

I wouldn't be surprised to see some movement in the transfer market for next season but there was never going to be wholesale changes anyway.

We might not have kiss till after the RWC but Barakat will surely be knocking about before that. Doak is confirmed obviously, bell is confirmed gone and I don't think Clarke has been confirmed so I'm unsure of what way our coaching structure is changing.

by **Notch** Tue 07 Apr 2015, 11:40 pm

Standulstermen wrote:I wouldn't be surprised to see some movement in the transfer market for next season but there was never going to be wholesale changes anyway.

We might not have kiss till after the RWC but Barakat will surely be knocking about before that. Doak is confirmed obviously, bell is confirmed gone and I don't think Clarke has been confirmed so I'm unsure of what way our coaching structure is changing.

Barakat will be there for pre-season. He's been coaching every specialism under the sun in Japan including forwards, though he worked as a defence coach in Australia.

I would not be adverse to Clarke staying on the coaching ticket, but not as outright forwards coach. Based on what I've seen from Ulster I think he knows how to coach packs to scrummage very well, he knows how to coach packs to maul very effectively and then I'm not sure about the rest of our forward play. Our scrum and maul has kept us in games at times but our breakdown...

by Standulstermen Wed 08 Apr 2015, 1:00 am

I would rather he goes. In truth I think our pack looked very good while kiss was around but has gone missing a fair bit since. When you consider what muller (allegedly) was getting out of the pack during the Anscombe reign I think we are entitled to expect more.

Some of our forward play has been downright atrocious but I take your point about areas that have done reasonably well. It's so hard to know exactly from the outside

by **Notch** Wed 08 Apr 2015, 2:46 pm

A few more Irish-qualified journeymen to add depth, who will intimidate or impress no-one

http://ulsterrugby.com/News/LatestNews/TabId/149/ArtMID/793/ArticleID/3487/Ulster-Rugby-sign-Browne-and-Rowley-from-London-Welsh-.aspx

Could work out alright.

by clivemcl Wed 08 Apr 2015, 3:15 pm

Obviously Shanahan isn't yet seen as a suitable backup 9 whilst Pienaar is away with SA. Might be a decent signing though. Browne - I'm not sure he will get much game time.

by Standulstermen Wed 08 Apr 2015, 3:35 pm

Backrow will remain an area of massive weakness next year then by the looks of it.

Wilson- another year older and while he has had a good season isn't Heineken cup quality IMO
Henry- provided he's fit top class
Henderson- needs to be looked at as 6 now for ulster. Potentially top class but consistency is the word
Williams- the fact that we all wished him away says it all.
Faloon- I'm worried he is going to be serially crocked
Browne- know little enough
Diack- I rate him

by **Notch** Wed 08 Apr 2015, 3:37 pm

Ross- a player who always gives it his all, but is largely ineffective

by marty2086 Wed 08 Apr 2015, 6:00 pm

Notch wrote:A few more Irish-qualified journeymen to add depth, who will intimidate or impress no-one

http://ulsterrugby.com/News/LatestNews/TabId/149/ArtMID/793/ArticleID/3487/Ulster-Rugby-sign-Browne-and-Rowley-from-London-Welsh-.aspx

Could work out alright.

At least they bring a winning mentality with them Doh

by neilthom7 Wed 08 Apr 2015, 6:04 pm

Dow- Promising but completely unproven

by neilthom7 Wed 08 Apr 2015, 6:09 pm

Don't know much about these 2 but Browne is top tackler and top for turnovers in London Welsh this season

by clivemcl Wed 08 Apr 2015, 6:18 pm

This isn't the first time Browne's name has been mentioned though. Pretty sure he came up sometime last year as a rumour. Maybe not here, but 'the other site'.

by **Notch** Wed 08 Apr 2015, 6:24 pm

We've been linked with every Irish back row player in world rugby and probably approached them all too.

by clivemcl Wed 08 Apr 2015, 6:27 pm

I knew they were familiar - this article mentions both from start of January!

http://www.the42.ie/irish-exiles-premiership-top-14-2-1864921-Jan2015/

Looks like somebody was writing Bryn a shopping list!

by neilthom7 Wed 08 Apr 2015, 8:10 pm

I wonde rhow many more of that shoping list he will try for? The backrows will most likely be watched at least

by InjuredYetAgain Wed 08 Apr 2015, 8:34 pm

neilthom7 wrote:Don't know much about these 2 but Browne is top tackler and top for turnovers in London Welsh this season

Top tackler at a team that gets plenty of practice at tackling is actually quite an accolade.
That said, I would have thought that "Throw not straight - red, scrum or line out again?" would have led the turnover stats
Anyway,you guys are bemoaning what for you is a bad season - have injuries not cost you quite a bit. Yer man Olding was fantastic last season but he is now Donald Ducked. As regards signings, given that the WC is coming up and the top players won't be seen until November, I don't see much movement. However, if the Castrati get relegated from the Top 14, Richie Grey would be looking for a move back I would have thought.

by Standulstermen Wed 08 Apr 2015, 10:07 pm

If he is top for turnovers as a six (you don't get many lock/openside) then that's promising.

Henderson/Henry/Wilson
Browne/Diack/Williams

Is potentially better than what we have seen this year

by neilthom7 Wed 08 Apr 2015, 10:10 pm

We don't know how many of our guys will go to the world cup we might not lose out as much as some other teams in terms of numbers going, although in terms of depth we have we could be badly effetced. We have brought in 4 people by my reckoning for next season including these 2.
World Cup losses are liekly to be Best, Henderson, Henry, Bowe, Payne, Pienaar for sure. e could also lose Touhy, Diack, a wing and a centre and Jackson. My guess is of those only Jackson and Tuohy would be likely to go as well.
Front row wise we will be fine, Locks we should be ok as we will have 3 or 4, Back row well we already have problems there, scrumhalf pienaar is a huge loss, Jacko would be a real loss too at 10 depending on how HUmphreys is feeling that particular week, Centres wise well that could depend on fitness really Olding will be out but we should still have 3 quality centres, back 3 wise we will have a good fullback and we should have at least 1 good winger we may even get lucky and have Trimble and Gilroy depending on what Schmidt decides on Trimble in the summer.

by **Notch** Thu 09 Apr 2015, 11:56 am

Don't forget Trimble neil

Jack Conan, Dom Ryan, Kevin McLaughlin, Dan Leavy, Jordi Murphy and Josh van der Flier have all renewed their Leinster contracts.

by **Notch** Thu 09 Apr 2015, 12:04 pm

I expect our squad during the World Cup will be something like;

Callum Black, Andy Warwick, Ruaidhri Murphy, Bronson Ross, Wiehahn Herbst, Dave Ryan
Rob Herring, John Andrew, Zac McCall
Franco van der Merwe, Alan O'Connor, Lewis Stevenson, Peter Browne, Dan Tuohy (maybe)
Robbie Diack, Clive Ross, Willie Faloon, Roger Wilson, Nick Williams
Paul Marshall, Paul Rowley, Michael Heaney
Sam Windsor, Ian Humphreys
Luke Marshall, Stuart McCloskey, Darren Cave, Sam Arnold, Jacob Stockdale
Michael Allen, Craig Gilroy, Jack Owens, Rory Scholes
Louis Ludik, Peter Nelson

Best, Payne, Bowe, Trimble, Henderson, Henry, Jackson and Pienaar to travel. The squad looks very mediocre when you remove those names and Olding. Someone like Jackson or Trimble being left behind would be huge for us.

by neilthom7 Thu 09 Apr 2015, 12:33 pm

I didn't forget him don't worry Notch my thing with Trimble is that he is injured and out the rest of the season right? So will Joe decide to take someone who hasn't played in as long as Andy hasn't so maybe he would be left behind. You are right someone like Trimble or Jacko being left behind would be huge for us. If you think about it the starting team isn't bad when you consider the teams some Pro12 sides could be putting out with call ups but it's not exactly amazing either. We can hold our own set piece wise and there is enough quality in the backs to scores tries so it would really be down to rucking and leadership issues

by Don Alfonso Thu 09 Apr 2015, 12:43 pm

I think Dave Ryan is away back to Munster?

I tihnk mediocre is a bt unfair. Apart from a good, strong front row, the forwards are meh - but quite a classy backline 11-15 could be put together out of that squad.

Back-row and halfbacks are the issue.

by **Notch** Thu 09 Apr 2015, 2:42 pm

He signed on a two year contract, so he should be here until Summer 2016. I'd be relatively surprised if he was let go.

by Pete330v2 Thu 09 Apr 2015, 3:13 pm

Didn't Geoff say something about Dave Ryan being let go?
My apologies Geoff if I'm wrong on this.

Has there been any update on Olding's knee. The immediate prognosis didn't look good which may have been exacerbated by certain posts on t'other forum on the subject. It was the very mention of 'career ending' that gave me that awful feeling in the gut.

by neilthom7 Thu 09 Apr 2015, 3:27 pm

Well Ulsters official statement said up to 9 months so lets hope we see him back round the end of the year.

by marty2086 Thu 09 Apr 2015, 3:36 pm

neilthom7 wrote:I didn't forget him don't worry Notch my thing with Trimble is that he is injured and out the rest of the season right? So will Joe decide to take someone who hasn't played in as long as Andy hasn't so maybe he would be left behind. You are right someone like Trimble or Jacko being left behind would be huge for us. If you think about it the starting team isn't bad when you consider the teams some Pro12 sides could be putting out with call ups but it's not exactly amazing either. We can hold our own set piece wise and there is enough quality in the backs to scores tries so it would really be down to rucking and leadership issues

neil Trimble will have the summer to work on his fitness and the warm up games to get up to speed, SOB hadn't played Test rugby for a year and only a handful of games before going into the 6N squad so may not be a big issue, the greater problem will be getting up to a standard that puts him ahead of or on par with Kearney, Gilroy, Bowe, Earls, Fitzgerald, Zebo and McFadden

by Pete330v2 Thu 09 Apr 2015, 3:49 pm

marty2086 wrote:
neilthom7 wrote:I didn't forget him don't worry Notch my thing with Trimble is that he is injured and out the rest of the season right? So will Joe decide to take someone who hasn't played in as long as Andy hasn't so maybe he would be left behind. You are right someone like Trimble or Jacko being left behind would be huge for us. If you think about it the starting team isn't bad when you consider the teams some Pro12 sides could be putting out with call ups but it's not exactly amazing either. We can hold our own set piece wise and there is enough quality in the backs to scores tries so it would really be down to rucking and leadership issues

neil Trimble will have the summer to work on his fitness and the warm up games to get up to speed, SOB hadn't played Test rugby for a year and only a handful of games before going into the 6N squad so may not be a big issue, the greater problem will be getting up to a standard that puts him ahead of or on par with Kearney, Gilroy, Bowe, Earls, Fitzgerald, Zebo and McFadden

So He'll slot in there nicely without competition Smile

by Don Alfonso Thu 09 Apr 2015, 5:05 pm

Bronson Ross has sigen don for another year. Goo dnews - he;s been a very decent number two this year. Whatever happened to Lutton, though? Seeing rumours of a fall-out with Clarke.

Following Broiwn, Rowley and Ross, Whiff of Cordite has the snide-o-meter turned up to eleven.

by Don Alfonso Thu 09 Apr 2015, 5:05 pm

Don Alfonso wrote:Bronson Ross has signed on for another year. Good news - he's been a very decent number two this year. Whatever happened to Lutton, though? Seeing rumours of a fall-out with Clarke.

Following Broiwn, Rowley and Ross, Whiff of Cordite has the snide-o-meter turned up to eleven.

by Don Alfonso Thu 09 Apr 2015, 5:07 pm

That's a bit weird - was just trying to correct my appalling typing...

by **Notch** Thu 09 Apr 2015, 5:10 pm

You hit quote instead of edit. I do the opposite all the time, except I can edit anyones post so sometimes I'm trying to reply to someone and I nearly rewrite their original post by mistake.

Broiwn is Peter Browne right?

by Don Alfonso Thu 09 Apr 2015, 5:13 pm

No - Ruchuard Briown. He's a number eiiight.

by Don Alfonso Thu 09 Apr 2015, 5:17 pm

Can also play loeck.

by Pete330v2 Thu 09 Apr 2015, 8:26 pm

And full baek

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