ireland 6N warmdown and look ahead to RWC

First topic message reminder :



Two years in a row!! Both tournaments have been close run, but this team has come on leaps and bounds in the time Schmidt has been in charge. The team is playing with a confidence that has rarely been seen as consistently as this from past Irish teams, we can vary the gameplan to meet the needs of the contest, the new combinations are starting to gell, and we have genuine competition in most positions around the pitch.

So rather than scurrying around the rest of the forum attempting to put out fires that try to feebly illegitimise the championship win, I think we can look back on another positive campaign showing real growth but with plenty of areas for improvement.

Six Nations
Comfortable if not spectacular for the most part. The team looked in control in games versus Italy and France without impressing two much, both results felt like a job done. Against England and Scotland were the real high points. Ireland's plan of attack put England on the back foot for most of the game with Sexton and Murray managing the game brilliantly. Against Scotland it was great to see us play positive and expansive stuff, it is good to know we can play that ball in hand game and have the players to do so. The low point was the Wales game, but even then I feel the territory and possession Ireland had was encouraging, but there are lessons to be learned about finishing chances and adapting to the ref (although credit also to the Welsh defense who were immense).

The Squad
Front Row: McGrath has shown more evidence he is an able replacement to Healy, for me he is not that far off now and was unlucky to lose his place. Rory Best is fantastic in the loose and at the breakdown, but at times his throws can be suspect and Cronin is a great option to bring on and run the ball. Total turnaround for Mike Ross, had a very strong campaign I thought, and great there is finally an able body to come on in Marty Moore
Lock: POC is absolutely vital to the cause and I worry about the impact of his loss more so than BOD. Toner has become a beast in the last two years, but I would love to see what Henderson is capable of starting for Ireland. Getting the best locks in Ireland fit at the right times (Touhy and Ryan are both useful options) has been a problem but these three currently are head and shoulders above the challengers.
Back Row: One of our strongest positions in quality and depth. SOB grew into the tournament, Heaslip and POM work incredibly hard. Honorable mention to Murphy for his early performances which were very positive.
Half Backs: Sexton and Murray have to be the form pair in the world right now, blip against Wales aside. The drop off in quality from those two is a concern, although Reddan had a very strong cameo against Wales. The position of understudy for 10 is still very much up for grabs between Madigan, Jackson and Keatley. I feel the team need to bring on Marmion more as well.
Centres: Starting to get to know each other's games. Henshaw has been absolute quality in all performances, reliably outstanding. Payne has grown into the role and really shone against Scotland. I think there  may be options in coming through in Olding, McCloskey, Marshall and eventually Ringrose, and I'd say Henshaw may eventually move to 13 in green, but I'd wager the incumbents go into the world cup as 12 and 13.
Wings: Another area of strength, with some great variety in the options. Zebo was unlucky to miss out against Scotland but Fitzgerald made a real difference. Bowe for me has been solid but I think Trimble has been missed. Earls for me should be competing for this spot rather than at centre and I would like to see Gilroy push on from his early promise. I have slight concerns about how the wingers are slowly losing their creativity as they come into the set up a la Zebo, and would like to see them try something other than take the soonest contact and recycle
Full Back: Not sure about Rob. Not pulling up and trees but hasn't let anyone down either. I don't know if Jones offers much else that Kearney doesn't. I'd say there are more creative options in the wings that can play fullback in the Pro 12 but against the other 6Ns fullbacks I don't know when they could be blooded. Payne at 15 maybe?

World Cup
Anything other than a semi-final appearance would be a huge disappointment following the last two years of progress. A semi-final win at Twickers against England is certainly doable but it would be a big ask. Despite the last showing at a World Cup I am confident Ireland can go further this time.

rodders wrote:I think Reddan is very underrated and better than a peak Stringer imo, even now.

Boss is better than given credit for too, it's no coincidence that both O'Connor and Schmidt rate him.

McGrath and Marmion are both talented and should come good post RWC. Paul Marshall has gone backwards though.

I think there are some decent options there and although Stringer could do a job for one of the provinces that would be it - hasn't been great at Bath imo.

Reddan tires quicker than a fat cat at a warm fire after a big meal on a cold winter's day  

Reddan has a certain speed - but it gets puffed out of him after a few heavy hits in a big game.  He hasn't the steady, sharp alertness of a Stringer in top form.  Both can become unsettled if the pack is losing ground and being bullied but most 9s have a bad day when that happens - otherwise, Stringer was a much more complete 9 than Reddan.  

I don't underrate Reddan though - just overrate Stringer .  With more gas in the tank stamina-wise Reddan would be fine, but I guess I see us with much more sharpness (backs AND forwards) with Stringer in those second halves at the WC.  What I think people most fail to see in Stringer is his ability not just to be involved with the backs (his very role) but also his ability to control what forwards are doing too.  He knows what forwards are about, he knows how to use them as a weapon; he is as at home moving them through their paces as he is distributing to backs.  Very important part that often gets overlooked - and no other 9 does it as naturally or effectively.

I have watched quite a few Bath games where Stringer has come on rodders and I must say that I have a totally different opinion than you. Each time I have seen him come on, he has played well and up the tempo of the Bath attack. He is still very much a big game player due to his experience that lends that extra bit of composure.

All you need to know is what Mike Ford has said about what Stringer has brought to Bath over the last couple of years in terms of experience and as a player. In effect he is one of the main reasons behind Ford jrs development especially last year.

Having said that its a nice idea about him coming back but not going to happen ultimately.

ME-109 wrote:All you need to know is what Mike Ford has said about what Stringer has brought to Bath over the last couple of years in terms of experience and as a player. In effect he is one of the main reasons behind Ford jrs development especially last year.

He rates him so highly he's not giving him a new contract and brought in Matalawalu.

Strings had a decent indian summer as an impact sub at Bath and sure he added of the field but wouldn't go overboard. He'd struggle for a bench spot at any of the provinces... better than O'Leary though...

ME-109 wrote:All you need to know is what Mike Ford has said about what Stringer has brought to Bath over the last couple of years in terms of experience and as a player. In effect he is one of the main reasons behind Ford jrs development especially last year.

Having said that its a nice idea about him coming back but not going to happen ultimately.

Why? Munster don't want him? Foley don't want him?
Ahh...gone are the days when Munster was all about famb-ily. Now it's fush and chups mega dollar SH signings and off to Elba for the naughty local folks..

rodders wrote:

ME-109 wrote:All you need to know is what Mike Ford has said about what Stringer has brought to Bath over the last couple of years in terms of experience and as a player. In effect he is one of the main reasons behind Ford jrs development especially last year.

He rates him so highly he's not giving him a new contract and brought in Matalawalu.

Strings had a decent indian summer as an impact sub at Bath and sure he added of the field but wouldn't go overboard. He'd struggle for a bench spot at any of the provinces... better than O'Leary though...  

Last year he started quite a lot this year less so has done a great job for them in helping the team develop . Not bad going for a 37 year old. Redden is/was a poor mans Stringer. TOL pre the broken ankle = better than them all.

Boss =
Marshall = doesnt even bobble head at the moment
Marmion = completely outplayed by Duncan Williams last game

No one there besides Murray really.

rodders wrote:

ME-109 wrote:All you need to know is what Mike Ford has said about what Stringer has brought to Bath over the last couple of years in terms of experience and as a player. In effect he is one of the main reasons behind Ford jrs development especially last year.

He rates him so highly he's not giving him a new contract and brought in Matalawalu.

Strings had a decent indian summer as an impact sub at Bath and sure he added of the field but wouldn't go overboard. He'd struggle for a bench spot at any of the provinces... better than O'Leary though...  

I can't think why.  9 is the position most players we now have aren't even worth a bench at, nevermind a start.  Very weak position across Ireland - needs fixing.  Oh that and 15.

9 and 15, the magic numbers that need serious work.

Bath are in an addict phase of faster, faster, faster.  When it fails, their only thought of a solution is faster still and even more chaos.  Ford himself (Pop) admitted the 'chaos' brand can get out of hand even for him and his players, and he doesn't usually know what's going to happen.  

Nice tactic.  

But anyway, they want Matalawalu for even more headless chicken madness.  And when Matalawalu is on form he certainly brings a dollop of that.  I think Bath will either win next years ERCC by a landslide of tries or they'll all be sent to a NutFarm in Strait-jackets.... keys thrown away for public safety.

rodders wrote:

ME-109 wrote:All you need to know is what Mike Ford has said about what Stringer has brought to Bath over the last couple of years in terms of experience and as a player. In effect he is one of the main reasons behind Ford jrs development especially last year.

He rates him so highly he's not giving him a new contract and brought in Matalawalu.

Strings had a decent indian summer as an impact sub at Bath and sure he added of the field but wouldn't go overboard. He'd struggle for a bench spot at any of the provinces... better than O'Leary though...  

Think he was offered a contract as a player/coach, but Strings wants to be starting

SecretFly wrote:

ME-109 wrote:All you need to know is what Mike Ford has said about what Stringer has brought to Bath over the last couple of years in terms of experience and as a player. In effect he is one of the main reasons behind Ford jrs development especially last year.

Having said that its a nice idea about him coming back but not going to happen ultimately.

Why?  Munster don't want him?  Foley don't want him?  
Ahh...gone are the days when Munster was all about famb-ily.  Now it's fush and chups mega dollar SH signings and off to Elba for the naughty local folks..  

Strings would be behind Murray in Munster. That is why he left. He didn't want to bench.

Zebo glad to be back with Munster where he is allowed score tries.

examiner.ie wrote:Simon Zebo admits he was hurt by his omission from Ireland’s final Six Nations game against Scotland and feels he did “everything asked of him” during the tournament.

The winger said it was tough to watch Ireland play an expansive brand of rugby when he was out of the team after the side played conservatively for the first four games, but he claims the joy of winning the championship eclipsed his personal disappointment.

“Yeah, it did (hurt), I suppose. You can’t really say anything to the coaches, it is their decision,” said the 25-year-old Cork native.



“It was probably the one game where I probably would have thrived. It was kind of strange that all the ball seemed to be going out to the wings, and I was sitting in the stand.

“I just thought I did everything that was asked of me. It wasn’t a tournament where I got loads of ball or got massive opportunities going forward. It doesn’t really bother me personally, because we won the championship and that is the main thing.

“Yeah, I was happy with how I went. I was doing the basics as I was asked to. That is all I can do.

“It is just one of those things and I am happy to be back playing with Munster. Hopefully I will get my hands on the ball this time,” said Zebo, who has scored eight tries in his 15 Munster performances this season.

'I was doing the basics as I was asked to'

And then to be rested for an expansive approach in the final game. Not only is this approach confusing to me but it must be hellishly confusing to Zebo. Possibly one of Irelands most naturally gifted attacking players being forced to do basics and when the opportunity arises for an expansive approach, he is left out. I really feel that this is confidence damaging to him.

Sin é wrote:Zebo glad to be back with Munster where he is allowed score tries.

examiner.ie wrote:Simon Zebo admits he was hurt by his omission from Ireland’s final Six Nations game against Scotland and feels he did “everything asked of him” during the tournament.

The winger said it was tough to watch Ireland play an expansive brand of rugby when he was out of the team after the side played conservatively for the first four games, but he claims the joy of winning the championship eclipsed his personal disappointment.

“Yeah, it did (hurt), I suppose. You can’t really say anything to the coaches, it is their decision,” said the 25-year-old Cork native.



“It was probably the one game where I probably would have thrived. It was kind of strange that all the ball seemed to be going out to the wings, and I was sitting in the stand.

“I just thought I did everything that was asked of me. It wasn’t a tournament where I got loads of ball or got massive opportunities going forward. It doesn’t really bother me personally, because we won the championship and that is the main thing.

“Yeah, I was happy with how I went. I was doing the basics as I was asked to. That is all I can do.

“It is just one of those things and I am happy to be back playing with Munster. Hopefully I will get my hands on the ball this time,” said Zebo, who has scored eight tries in his 15 Munster performances this season.

What a whinger. Fits the Munster psyche nicely. The world is against us.

We played more or less the same game plan v Scotland than we did for all other games. We just played much better and dominated Scotland all over the park more than we did other teams.

"It was kind of strange that all the ball seemed to be going out to the wings"

Strange that Zebo would think it strange.  
I know for a fact he trained with the Irish team that week - having the craic with POC's walking rugby stints and all where he didn't look close to being depressed.  
I know for a fact that players said they were always going to go for it in terms of what Wales might have left for them to do and what England might do after them.  The smokescreen of 'only trying to win the game' was just what most of us always knew it to be - bluff.

So Zebo was around camp and training to be expansive for the Scottish game.  He was in no way feeling it 'strange' that the players decided to send it out to the wings during the game itself.

Zebo played his part - the slog games played their part in getting to the more open game against Scotland.  He'll have his part again.  But there are more players then him looking for a shot.  Time is running out.  Schmidt needs to check out other selections to work on his undoubted long-range planning.  He decided Fitz.  Fitz paid off.  We have a second title in two years.  We'd probably have the same title with Zebo playing against Scotland instead of Fitz.

There are more players than Zebo who played well and then missed out a game or two.  This idea that Zebo is a unique character with unique rights is a tad oversold just now.

Surely St Joe has some amazing plan to fool everyone pre world cup by playing Munster style rugby circa 1980 and then surprise opposing teams by chucking the ball all over the shop at every opportunity with players like Zebo,Madigan,Earls etc. Or maybe he is just your typical ex head teacher who has favourites and picks them and to hell with the consequences

Its not that Zebo is a unique player, its the fact that he is one of Irelands most potent attackers. He was told to work on certain aspects of his game which he did so very well, played the exact tactics that were given him and when Ireland were going to play a more expansive gameplan (something that he relishes) he was rested? I just find that astonishing and can certainly understand his disappointment.

I am not having a go at Fitz, he did really well and good luck to him. I would simply be more happy if he had a game earlier playing the hard grind stuff, that would seem more balanced to me.

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:Its not that Zebo is a unique player, its the fact that he is one of Irelands most potent attackers. He was told to work on certain aspects of his game which he did so very well, played the exact tactics that were given him and when Ireland were going to play a more expansive gameplan (something that he relishes) he was rested? I just find that astonishing and can certainly understand his disappointment.

I am not having a go at Fitz, he did really well and good luck to him. I would simply be more happy if he had a game earlier playing the hard grind stuff, that would seem more balanced to me.

Maybe he just isnt as good as you think? A flik with the outside of your boot and the inclination to be a me feiner doesnt make you a great player.

Zebo is basically the same as the majority of our wingers: Himself, Dave Kearney, Earls, McFadden, Luke Fitz, Gilroy. Good club wingers, average at international level. That is not to say poor, it actually means average. Nothing special but capable, they all bring different strengths and weaknesses to the table so it's about what you want on the day. Of that group, only Gilroy really has the talent to progress to "good" alongside Bowe and Trimble. If Trimble was fit, I think Bowe would be moved to the left, he is a level above these guys.

GunsGerms wrote:

Maybe he just isnt as good as you think? A flik with the outside of your boot and the inclination to be a me feiner doesnt make you a great player.

Is that all you have seen from him? I watch him at Munster and for Ireland and am of the opinion that he is a very good player. I simply feel that he was hard done by in the last match after doing everything he was asked to do and do it very well. Anyone who does that has the right to feel disappointed that they are not rewarded.

GunsGerms wrote:

What a whinger. Fits the Munster psyche nicely. The world is against us.

We played more or less the same game plan v Scotland than we did for all other games. We just played much better and dominated Scotland all over the park more than we did other teams.

Wait a second... You are one (Along with your buddy Notch) who accused me of having no rugby insight for not agreeing that Ireland changed tactics during the match against Scotland. Now you are saying that Ireland played pretty much the same gameplan all 5 matches

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:Zebo glad to be back with Munster where he is allowed score tries.

examiner.ie wrote:Simon Zebo admits he was hurt by his omission from Ireland’s final Six Nations game against Scotland and feels he did “everything asked of him” during the tournament.

The winger said it was tough to watch Ireland play an expansive brand of rugby when he was out of the team after the side played conservatively for the first four games, but he claims the joy of winning the championship eclipsed his personal disappointment.

“Yeah, it did (hurt), I suppose. You can’t really say anything to the coaches, it is their decision,” said the 25-year-old Cork native.



“It was probably the one game where I probably would have thrived. It was kind of strange that all the ball seemed to be going out to the wings, and I was sitting in the stand.

“I just thought I did everything that was asked of me. It wasn’t a tournament where I got loads of ball or got massive opportunities going forward. It doesn’t really bother me personally, because we won the championship and that is the main thing.

“Yeah, I was happy with how I went. I was doing the basics as I was asked to. That is all I can do.

“It is just one of those things and I am happy to be back playing with Munster. Hopefully I will get my hands on the ball this time,” said Zebo, who has scored eight tries in his 15 Munster performances this season.

What a whinger. Fits the Munster psyche nicely. The world is against us.

We played more or less the same game plan v Scotland than we did for all other games. We just played much better and dominated Scotland all over the park more than we did other teams.

No offence to Scotland here, but playing them in the 6Ns is akin to playing Zebre in the Pro12!

(It must be killing you Guns to have to defend the selection of Luke )

the-goon wrote:Zebo is basically the same as the majority of our wingers: Himself, Dave Kearney, Earls, McFadden, Luke Fitz, Gilroy. Good club wingers, average at international level. That is not to say poor, it actually means average. Nothing special but capable, they all bring different strengths and weaknesses to the table so it's about what you want on the day. Of that group, only Gilroy really has the talent to progress to "good" alongside Bowe and Trimble. If Trimble was fit, I think Bowe would be moved to the left, he is a level above these guys.

To be honest I dont think he is average nor do I think the other guys you mention are but I do think they all have different strengths but all of more or less a similar level. I think they are all pretty good and wouldnt be concerned if any of they were called up.

Sin é wrote:

No offence to Scotland here, but playing them in the 6Ns is akin to playing Zebre in the Pro12!

(It must be killing you Guns to have to defend the selection of Luke )

I never defended the selection of Fitz. I have always said that Zebo should have been picked. However, Zebo going back to his province and having a whinge about Ireland is a typical Munster gobshite move.

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:

Wait a second... You are one (Along with your buddy Notch) who accused me of having no rugby insight for not agreeing that Ireland changed tactics during the match against Scotland. Now you are saying that Ireland played pretty much the same gameplan all 5 matches

Show me the exact quote and and context and Ill consider retracting it if you like.

the-goon wrote:Zebo is basically the same as the majority of our wingers: Himself, Dave Kearney, Earls, McFadden, Luke Fitz, Gilroy. Good club wingers, average at international level. That is not to say poor, it actually means average. Nothing special but capable, they all bring different strengths and weaknesses to the table so it's about what you want on the day. Of that group, only Gilroy really has the talent to progress to "good" alongside Bowe and Trimble. If Trimble was fit, I think Bowe would be moved to the left, he is a level above these guys.

Trimble was pretty average for most of his career. He had one good six nations.

Sin é wrote:

Trimble was pretty average for most of his career. He had one good six nations.

What a load of rot.

Sin é wrote:

the-goon wrote:Zebo is basically the same as the majority of our wingers: Himself, Dave Kearney, Earls, McFadden, Luke Fitz, Gilroy. Good club wingers, average at international level. That is not to say poor, it actually means average. Nothing special but capable, they all bring different strengths and weaknesses to the table so it's about what you want on the day. Of that group, only Gilroy really has the talent to progress to "good" alongside Bowe and Trimble. If Trimble was fit, I think Bowe would be moved to the left, he is a level above these guys.

Trimble was pretty average for most of his career. He had one good six nations.

Personally, I feel that Trimble is/was one of the hardest done by players in Ireland. He constantly showed amazing form at club level only to be overlooked internationally. He had that one good 6N because he was given faith and rewarded it with fine performances.

ME-109 wrote:Surely St Joe has some amazing plan to fool everyone pre world cup by playing Munster style rugby circa 1980 and then surprise opposing teams by chucking the ball all over the shop at every opportunity with players like Zebo,Madigan,Earls etc. Or maybe he is just your typical ex head teacher who has favourites and picks them and to hell with the consequences

Maybe he has, maybe he is  

But Zebo is above all that nonsense and because he's absolutely our biggest asset he should have his own stylised contract drawn up that makes it an offence to drop him, whereby Munster get compensated heavily each time it happens.

He has 57 caps. That isnt being overlooked.

I meant in the sense of a decent run in the Irish side, he had his injury problems but was often seen as being only a squad player for the majority of his career. Of those 57 caps, how many of those are for starts and starts on the wing?

My opinion is that he was overlooked a lot.

I would say most of them were starts on the wing. He has been an important player for a long time now IMO spanning a period when we have had great wingers like Hickey, Earls and Horgan etc.

He started 37 of 57 on the wing. Came on as a sub 4 times on the wing.

The rest of the games were either starts (8) at centre or sub FB or centre.

It isnt unusual for wingers to play in other positions on occasion and Trimble was a good centre IMO.

He certainly has a respectable amount of international caps. Only a few short of Hickey and Horgan and more than Earls.

Like guns said it doesn't matter which winger plays given the way we play. Smart thinking by Joe to drop Zebo and use him to move the discussion away from our limited game plan. Throw the ball around for the first 20 mins given a sympathetic Scottish defense and then revert to type as that didn't work. Press are impressed and have the wool pulled over their eyes willingly. Nice one from Joe

Well we had almost six tries against Scotland who knew a little more about defence than certainly the French knew at Twickers....had Bowe, one of our wings, not waywardly knocked back two attacking options that he'd have been better off holding onto for a nice close to the line recycle.

So the attack wasn't bad. A score is as big one way as the other - as England found to their cost when they complained about not scoring enough whilst forgetting their élan let in too many scores the other end

ME-109 wrote:Like guns said it doesn't matter which winger plays given the way we play. Smart thinking by Joe to drop Zebo and use him to move the discussion away from our limited game plan. Throw the ball around for the first 20 mins given a sympathetic Scottish defense and then revert to type as that didn't work. Press are impressed and have the wool pulled over their eyes willingly. Nice one from Joe

Schmidt is trying to develop a game plan to win tight knock out games in prep for the WC. It is clever and it is working. Thats all that matters. Let the whingers whinge. All I care about is that we make it to the semis and beyond and Im glad we have a smart coach that takes the right approach and not what casual fans think is the right approach.

He is a winning coach and that is a good thing....as a casual fan as opposed to a well dressed one like yourself the only concern is that it is a limited plan...as was shown in the welsh game and seemed to be easily countered on that occasion. We will play better teams than Wales in the World Cup. A semi should be possible but you never know with those annoying French....

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

the-goon wrote:Zebo is basically the same as the majority of our wingers: Himself, Dave Kearney, Earls, McFadden, Luke Fitz, Gilroy. Good club wingers, average at international level. That is not to say poor, it actually means average. Nothing special but capable, they all bring different strengths and weaknesses to the table so it's about what you want on the day. Of that group, only Gilroy really has the talent to progress to "good" alongside Bowe and Trimble. If Trimble was fit, I think Bowe would be moved to the left, he is a level above these guys.

Trimble was pretty average for most of his career. He had one good six nations.

Personally, I feel that Trimble is/was one of the hardest done by players in Ireland. He constantly showed amazing form at club level only to be overlooked internationally. He had that one good 6N because he was given faith and rewarded it with fine performances.

Nope. He wasn't hard done by. He has a very poor kicking game and he used to be pretty bad under a high ball (when kicking and catching were all in vogue around 2009).

ME-109 wrote:He is a winning coach and that is a good thing....as a casual fan as opposed to a well dressed one like yourself the only concern is that it is a limited plan...as was shown in the welsh game and seemed to be easily countered on that occasion. We will play better teams than Wales in the World Cup. A semi should be possible but you never know with those annoying French....

Yes Wales were good but if we can avoid having Barnes as ref with the current game plan we can beat anyone and as demonstrated the last time we played them we can push NZ very close. That is as much as we can ask for I reckon.

Losing is never good but the manner in which you lose is a good indicator of how much you need to work on. We dominated Wales in many ways on that day and had all the posession and territory so Im not too concerned about it. I think we could play as good as the ABs but lose when Barnes is ref. Thats how bad I think he is.

Sin é wrote:

Nope. He wasn't hard done by. He has a very poor kicking game and he used to be pretty bad under a high ball (when kicking and catching were all in vogue around 2009).

Maybe I am biased as he has always been one of my favourite players but I feel that that a player of his quality with only 57 caps in a 10 year (and counting) Irish career does give me the feeling that he has been somewhat hard done by. Just my opinion at the end of the day though.

Hickie had a 10 year career and only 67 caps. Was he hard done by? Over 50 caps is a cracking innings.

Guns is right.  This game the Irish play now - boring as f**k, frustrating as hell, maddening when you see where space could be utilised and more try scoring options used - this game Ireland play now is ruthlessly constructed to deal with the Real conditions of WC rugby at the concluding stages.  The beauty all goes after the Pools and the minnows having some cricket scores put on them with the cheetah rugby stuff.

The real business is the grim reaper close quarters physical stuff where little is given and little is gained.  And Schmidt is single mindedly preparing his players for such games and such pressures.  Let nobody tell me that in certain games during this 6N that the Irish team didn't have the brains to know how to spread and stretch a team more than they chose to do.  None of them are novices - a lot of them are veterans of other campaigns and they know what biting and aggressive rugby is and they know that playing as they did against Scotland is a better blue print for scoring tries.

But that wasn't the mantra.  The mantra seems to be this constant limited game of making small gains and clinging energetically to them.  It seems Schmidt wants such a gameplan to be seared into the minds of players because he's looked at WCs and he knows the games become much more attritional at the business end.

If all you have is the cheetah stuff (like the French and English showed in that last game) well it's pretty but it rarely wins WCs.

GunsGerms wrote:Hickie had a 10 year career and only 67 caps. Was he hard done by? Over 50 caps is a cracking innings.

He hard-done us by retiring too bloody soon!

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Nope. He wasn't hard done by. He has a very poor kicking game and he used to be pretty bad under a high ball (when kicking and catching were all in vogue around 2009).

Maybe I am biased as he has always been one of my favourite players but I feel that that a player of his quality with only 57 caps in a 10 year (and counting) Irish career does give me the feeling that he has been somewhat hard done by. Just my opinion at the end of the day though.

He comes across as a really likeable guy, but he doesn't really have a rounded game. He also plays much better on the right wing (which was owned by Shane Horgan and then Tommy Bowe). What worked out for him is that Bowe (and every other winger ahead of him on the right wing were injured last year).

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Nope. He wasn't hard done by. He has a very poor kicking game and he used to be pretty bad under a high ball (when kicking and catching were all in vogue around 2009).

Maybe I am biased as he has always been one of my favourite players but I feel that that a player of his quality with only 57 caps in a 10 year (and counting) Irish career does give me the feeling that he has been somewhat hard done by. Just my opinion at the end of the day though.

I don't think he was hard done by as such but Sin is talking nonsece as usual.

Trimble has consistently been one of Ulster's very best performers - he's definitely improved in recent years but has always been a very good player.

For Ireland he was a good player under EOS initially, with a decent record and a regular on the bench when we had a stellar backline...... whether it was down to injuries and/or confidence he never quite performed under Kidney's Ireland...although not helped by the fact he played mostly on the left wing where he's less assured.

What we saw last season imo was the real Trimble (to quote ROG/Horgan) - an all action player who picks great running lines, is a decent offloader, an underrated finisher and one of the best and most aggressive defensive wingers in the game.

Sin é wrote:Zebo glad to be back with Munster where he is allowed score tries.

examiner.ie wrote:Simon Zebo admits he was hurt by his omission from Ireland’s final Six Nations game against Scotland and feels he did “everything asked of him” during the tournament.

The winger said it was tough to watch Ireland play an expansive brand of rugby when he was out of the team after the side played conservatively for the first four games, but he claims the joy of winning the championship eclipsed his personal disappointment.

“Yeah, it did (hurt), I suppose. You can’t really say anything to the coaches, it is their decision,” said the 25-year-old Cork native.



“It was probably the one game where I probably would have thrived. It was kind of strange that all the ball seemed to be going out to the wings, and I was sitting in the stand.

“I just thought I did everything that was asked of me. It wasn’t a tournament where I got loads of ball or got massive opportunities going forward. It doesn’t really bother me personally, because we won the championship and that is the main thing.

“Yeah, I was happy with how I went. I was doing the basics as I was asked to. That is all I can do.

“It is just one of those things and I am happy to be back playing with Munster. Hopefully I will get my hands on the ball this time,” said Zebo, who has scored eight tries in his 15 Munster performances this season.

Wow talk about tall poppy syndrome.

Christ on a bike lads, its a good thing we won the six nations. imagine the in fighting that would have been done then,

rodders wrote:

I don't think he was hard done by as such but Sin is talking nonsece as usual.

Trimble has consistently been one of Ulster's very best performers - he's definitely improved in recent years but has always been a very good player.

For Ireland he was a good player under EOS initially, with a decent record and a regular on the bench when we had a stellar backline...... whether it was down to injuries and/or confidence he never quite performed under Kidney's Ireland...although not helped by the fact he played mostly on the left wing where he's less assured.

What we saw last season imo was the real Trimble (to quote ROG/Horgan) - an all action player who picks great running lines, is a decent offloader, an underrated finisher and one of the best and most aggressive defensive wingers in the game.        

Bloody A Grade dissection of the issue there Rodders! Spot on on the progress through coaches to the now  Do keep up the good work even if your pals think you a teacher's pet.

What pals?

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:Zebo glad to be back with Munster where he is allowed score tries.

examiner.ie wrote:Simon Zebo admits he was hurt by his omission from Ireland’s final Six Nations game against Scotland and feels he did “everything asked of him” during the tournament.

The winger said it was tough to watch Ireland play an expansive brand of rugby when he was out of the team after the side played conservatively for the first four games, but he claims the joy of winning the championship eclipsed his personal disappointment.

“Yeah, it did (hurt), I suppose. You can’t really say anything to the coaches, it is their decision,” said the 25-year-old Cork native.



“It was probably the one game where I probably would have thrived. It was kind of strange that all the ball seemed to be going out to the wings, and I was sitting in the stand.

“I just thought I did everything that was asked of me. It wasn’t a tournament where I got loads of ball or got massive opportunities going forward. It doesn’t really bother me personally, because we won the championship and that is the main thing.

“Yeah, I was happy with how I went. I was doing the basics as I was asked to. That is all I can do.

“It is just one of those things and I am happy to be back playing with Munster. Hopefully I will get my hands on the ball this time,” said Zebo, who has scored eight tries in his 15 Munster performances this season.

Wow talk about tall poppy syndrome.

Munster gobshite syndrome I call it.

Oh yeah...you're on your own down there...though DOD and Sin are outside looking in at you through the window. Too unruly for school, them two - especially when Joe is doing trigonometry.

SecretFly wrote:"It was kind of strange that all the ball seemed to be going out to the wings"

Strange that Zebo would think it strange.  
I know for a fact he trained with the Irish team that week - having the craic with POC's walking rugby stints and all where he didn't look close to being depressed.  
I know for a fact that players said they were always going to go for it in terms of what Wales might have left for them to do and what England might do after them.  The smokescreen of 'only trying to win the game' was just what most of us always knew it to be - bluff.

So Zebo was around camp and training to be expansive for the Scottish game.  He was in no way feeling it 'strange' that the players decided to send it out to the wings during the game itself.

Zebo played his part - the slog games played their part in getting to the more open game against Scotland.  He'll have his part again.  But there are more players then him looking for a shot.  Time is running out.  Schmidt needs to check out other selections to work on his undoubted long-range planning.  He decided Fitz.  Fitz paid off.  We have a second title in two years.  We'd probably have the same title with Zebo playing against Scotland instead of Fitz.

There are more players than Zebo who played well and then missed out a game or two.  This idea that Zebo is a unique character with unique rights is a tad oversold just now.

I have to say, that post is eerily similar to the excuses made for another certain player being dropped a couple of years ago..

I actually agree with Zebo on this issue. He was dropped in the game perfectly suited for him. Up until that game, our attacking play was completely subpar. I think we can all agree on that.

I sincerely hope to see Zebo starting again for Ireland in the RWC and our attacking play to improve.

He knew that game was coming and knew he wouldn't be playing in it.  That's all I'm saying.  

It was no surprise to him, as he sat in his Special ZEEBO sponsored section in the stands, that his pals and not-so-pals were playing it more his way below him.  It wasn't strange - he'd already prepared for it with them in training the week before.

He's Munsterising his memories of the day for Local readership  "They done me wrong because I'm happy to be a Munster man and love me rugby"