Scotland v South Africa, 3 October

George Carlin wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Riskysports wrote:Good news all - Misses is on the mend - and avoided surgery - still missing the game live, but at least she will be at home beside me to watch Scotland win

Sorry for those who wanted the tickets - ended up a - first to the posst type thing

If only she was ill earlier could have made a fortune on the site Stub HUb :-)

good to hear mate

Very good news.

Riskysports wrote:Good news all - Misses is on the mend - and avoided surgery - still missing the game live, but at least she will be at home beside me to watch Scotland win

Sorry for those who wanted the tickets - ended up a - first to the posst type thing

If only she was ill earlier could have made a fortune on the site Stub HUb :-)

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Riskysports wrote:Good news all - Misses is on the mend - and avoided surgery - still missing the game live, but at least she will be at home beside me to watch Scotland win

Sorry for those who wanted the tickets - ended up a - first to the posst type thing

If only she was ill earlier could have made a fortune on the site Stub HUb :-)

Very selfish of her!

funnyExiledScot wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:What are people’s thoughts on SA changing all their lineout codes on Monday to counteract Nel and Strauss’ knowledge of them? It has been joked about, but surely that could be a weak point for SA?

Let’s face it, forwards aren’t the brightest, and 5 days to learn entirely new line out calls could mean that there will be mix ups on the day.

I do hope so!

I assumed they were joking!! Nel and Strauss haven't been involved in SA rugby for 3 years. I find it difficult to believe that SA haven't changed their lineout calls in that time, otherwise everyone would have cracked them.

A bit of a non-story. Our lineout is utter mince anyway, and if we get too excited about throwing players in the air to challenge, we'll probably end up being mauled to death (we're rubbish at defending those as well).

I see the lineout and rolling mauls as one area where South Africa hold all the cards.

SecretFly wrote:Look...when all is said an done, not one South African would get onto the Scottish team..............

SecretFly wrote:Look...when all is said an done, not one South African would get onto the Scottish team..............

SecretFly wrote:Look...when all is said an done, not one South African would get onto the Scottish team..............

Biltong wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Look...when all is said an done, not one South African would get onto the Scottish team..............

Except for the two already there, eh?

Biltong wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Look...when all is said an done, not one South African would get onto the Scottish team..............

Except for the two already there, eh?

Riskysports wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Riskysports wrote:Good news all - Misses is on the mend - and avoided surgery - still missing the game live, but at least she will be at home beside me to watch Scotland win

Sorry for those who wanted the tickets - ended up a - first to the posst type thing

If only she was ill earlier could have made a fortune on the site Stub HUb :-)

good to hear mate

Very good news.

I will try not to think about if I had not got tickets to the Scotland match in the first place, I would be taking clients to the Hospitality at Twikenham this weekend lol

Fanster wrote:Extremely dissapointed in this Scottish lineup, I thought the Scots were going to be the ones to rock SA but Japan seem to have damaged Scots chances, however even a losing BP and denying SA a BP puts the group on edge in the final round, even if the favour is taken away from the slots a bit.

Are Scotland developing a reputation for selecting games they know they aren't good enough to win, and does this hurt the RWC?

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Fanster wrote:Extremely dissapointed in this Scottish lineup, I thought the Scots were going to be the ones to rock SA but Japan seem to have damaged Scots chances, however even a losing BP and denying SA a BP puts the group on edge in the final round, even if the favour is taken away from the slots a bit.

Are Scotland developing a reputation for selecting games they know they aren't good enough to win, and does this hurt the RWC?

Yes and yes. It's a reputation that is entirely justified as well. I personally find it shameful.

South Africa in 1999. I think that's the last time we've been brave enough to put out a full strength team against one of the Big 3 in a World Cup. Groups were smaller then and it was easier to qualify.

George Carlin wrote:You cannot ignore the running order of these games, mind you. It just happens that the Boks are third for us and it just happens we've had only 10 days of recovery across both games for our first XV. It also happens to be the case that the Bok have to win this and have nothing to lose by selecting their biggest hitters. It's also not really the coaches' fault that our starters needed to rack up far more minutes than was ever intended in order to beat the USA. This is not some Machiavellian scheme to embarrass Scottish rugby in the eyes of the world - it's what you have to do when you hope to have to play at least another 2 games after this one. 

As a blanket statement, I want our best team on the field at all times too but circumstances conspired heavily against that this time. I also don't want to flog exhausted players to injury for the sake of pride in this game only to get horsed in the last match. 

If we qualify, nobody will give a cr#p about whether our team in this match was at least 5 players away from being our first choice starters. 

Vern Cotter fury over ‘second string’ selection
by IAIN MORRISON

Never mind the match, the Scotland press conference to announce the team to play the Springboks tomorrow was a tetchy enough affair. On top of accommodating two injuries in the form of stand-off Finn Russell and openside John Hardie, the coach has made several unforced changes to his run-on XV.

Gordon Reid, Richie Vernon and Blair Cowan all get their first taste of World Cup rugby, Duncan Weir and hooker Fraser Brown both get their first starts and Sam Hidalgo-Clyne is poised to replace skipper Greig Laidlaw off the bench if needs be. Full-back Stuart Hogg is the only player to have started all three matches to date.

The journalists present – well, some of the braver ones – suggested to Cotter that this team was picked with one eye on Samoa next week. Cotter employed both eyes in a death stare on the miscreants and did his best to rubbish this line of questioning without ever denying it outright. He can’t, it is true, but to admit as much would demoralise his troops and offer succour to the Saffas.

Explain your thinking behind this selection?

“I am not sure how to answer that,” Cotter replied with lashings of snarkasm. “It is a team that has been selected to compete against South Africa. If you have specifics then ask them.”

Richie Vernon plays his first game?

“Mark [Bennett] has played and he is right up there in game time,” Cotter replied. “This is our third game in ten days. We have looked at workloads and potential injuries and there are players we feel that are better regenerating. Fraser Brown comes in as Ross Ford had a good shift against USA so Fraser comes in to even up the workloads a little bit.”

But there are still second-string players?

“These players will be giving one hundred per cent of themselves and it is a team that will be competitive. Everybody has worked hard to make the 31 and we said we needed to use everyone. That is the case now and now it is a case of stepping up and getting on with it. We know who we are playing against and how well they can play, especially in that last game. The challenge is there and every rugby player enjoys that type of thing and we will see the best coming out in their performance.”

Did Cotter intend to make these changes all along?

“It is dangerous to have pre-conceived ideas,” replied the Kiwi. “Some players have had more game time, some less. Four games to qualify, we are on our third. We are doing our damned best to give our best in this game against South Africa and I am sure the players will. I didn’t choose the draw.”

The absence of Russell has affected the entire set-up of the team, which is packed full of stoppers: from Josh Strauss and David Denton doubling up in the third row of the scrum to Vernon and Matt Scott parking the bus midfield, effectively fighting ire with ire, countering the highly physical approach of the Springboks’ midfield trio.

Weir is a very decent replacement No 10 who attacks the gain line pretty well, but he lacks the instinctive vision of Russell who can conjure something out of nothing, such as Sean Maitland’s try against the Eagles. Both Cotter and Scotland captain Laidlaw went out of their way to burnish his replacement’s ego ahead of tomorrow’s match.

“I don’t think it changes anything,” said Laidlaw of Russell’s absence. “Finn is a wonderful player but then again, although he picked up a knock, he’s played a lot of rugby as well so it’s a good opportunity for Duncan to come in. It’s important for me to give him a few early touches and settle him into his role.

“He’s played enough rugby now to know what it’s all about and he’ll be relishing this opportunity. Matt Scott has been in fine form outside him so both me and Matty can help him, inside and out.”

“Duncan has a great skill set,” said Cotter. “He is a great kicker and passer of the ball, he is a brave defender and he has worked hard. He has a great attitude, they all have.”

Incidentally Cotter mentioned that Russell should be back into full training by the middle of next week in time for him to take his place in the team to play Samoa. With a little luck Hardie, who took a head knock against Japan and was due to be tested yesterday, will also be fit for Samoa, not that Cotter was thinking that far ahead.

“We’re just looking at this game,” he insisted. “We’re not looking at the Samoa game; that’s next week. We are looking to put in a big performance and have a real crack at these guys. That’s the way we are approaching this game.”

Scotland assistant boss defends South African changes
Friday 02 October 2015

SCOTLAND assistant coach Jonathan Humphreys insists Scotland are not gambling with their Rugby World Cup ambitions after rejecting claims they are putting out a second string line-up against South Africa.

The Dark Blues can all but clinch a quarter-final slot if they become the second Pool B team to beat the Springboks when they clash at Newcastle’s St James’ Park.

But Vern Cotter has again tinkered with his team ahead of facing Heyneke Meyer’s men, making a raft of changes.

Al Dickinson, Ross Ford, Mark Bennett and Sean Maitland, key performers for the Scots in their opening two victories over Japan and the United States, are either benched or rested altogether.

Cotter is also without injured duo Finn Russell and John Hardie and in all, seven members of the starting XV to face the two-time former winners are not regarded as the Kiwi’s first picks.

But Humphreys denies the head coach has written off beating the Boks in preference to keeping his men fresh for their final - and potentially decisive - group game with Samoa.

He said: “I don’t understand why people are saying it’s a second string. What hasn’t been written is that international rugby is a hugely, hugely physical sport.

“I’d prefer them to write about a 31-man squad playing three huge games in 10 days.

“We’re confident in the group we’ve picked. Look at the two Gray brothers [Richie and Jonny]. We have a fantastic back row. Blair Cowan played every single game in the Six Nations and was extremely unlucky not to get in the initial 31-man squad.

“We have Gordon Reid who played extremely well against France. There is Fraser Brown, who’s arguably been our best forward in this tournament so far. He’s been outstanding.

“They’re an extremely proud group of people. I haven’t seen a more together group. We are all after the same thing - every single player has worked so hard to be here and they’re here on merit.

“Next week will be next week. Our sole focus is on this game, and we cannot take our focus off this game.

“Right now we’ve not thought about Samoa. South Africa are an unbelievable threat to us and we want to get the job done.”

Centre Bennett scored twice in Scotland’s first match against Japan but his place is taken by 6ft 5in former flanker Richie Vernon.

Saturday’s match will be just the Glasgow man’s third international start at 13 since converting from the back row but his midfield partner for the afternoon Matt Scott denies he is going up against one of the world’s strongest outfits with a rookie by his side.

“Richie hasn’t played centre for long but I’ve found him to be a really easy guy to work with,” said the Edinburgh back. “He’s a quick learner, so he takes on information easily. I’ve no real issues with him.

“He’s not [an additional burden on me] at all. He’s played in the back row so he’s a very good tackler. I don’t see it as a weakness for us. We have two physical guys just like they do, so we’re well matched in the midfield.”

Scotland have struggled to deal with the driving maul and they now take on a side who have got the technique down to a fine art.

“That’s the game right there - the line-out and the mauls,” admitted Scott. “The forwards are going to have an extremely tough day.

“As a backline we just have to help them out as much as we can. That means making our tackles and putting them back when we get the chance because we know it’s going to be tough for them up front.”

Meyer claimed earlier this week his side had been forced to change their line-out calls as they feared Afrikaners-turned-Scots Josh Strauss and WP Nel would be able to crack their codes.

Both players trained with South Africa before committing themselves to Scotland but Humphreys, now in charge of the forwards, said: “I don’t think it’s possible to change a complete book of line-outs in a week.

“Their line-out is very effective and simple. Whether they change, I don’t know. It’s not something we’ve even talked about.

“Are they at it? I don’t know. I don’t think it’s quite as monumental as they’ve made out.”

sensisball wrote:alive

you are correct to point out that this is not Scotland's strongest team. However with Russell and Hardie injured there is actually very, very little prospect of a Scottish victory. Weir is a massive drop off from finbar and Cowan wasnt deemed good enough to even make the final 31! Cotter got very lucky with Gilchrist's injury as it allowed him to bring in a second 7 ( Wilson was totally anonymous in that role against USA, showed what a crazy decision it was to take only 1 openside) Bennett is a vital cog in the backline, and has played two full games already, deserving a break.

If qualification from the group is Scotland's goal then another close defeat, risking injury to key playmakers isnt a sensible choice. I am content with this team and think it will be able to put in a decent performance, hopefully wont sustain any major injuries, allowing us to build for Scotland's biggest game in 4 years, next week.

SecretFly wrote:The complaints included everyone.  All sides that have to do tough schedules.... with particular attention obviously for the 'minnows' that haven't squads of limitless quality.  

Problem is, the Scots didn't like hearing that then... and had scant sympathy for the Japanese.  You might even say they took offence to the Japanese having the public's sympathy and duly took their anger out on the Japanese on the scoreboard "Put that in your pipe and smoke it, cry babies!!"

Now, the picture seems clearer.

kingraf wrote:Jeez, when I last read this article, Scottish fans had a cautious optimism about them. Exactly what page did the mood change?

cakeordeath wrote:

kingraf wrote:Jeez, when I last read this article, Scottish fans had a cautious optimism about them. Exactly what page did the mood change?

Team selection, some people think we have put out a weakened team, others think it's player rotation and injuries. Either way it's not our strongest selection.

RDW_Scotland wrote:To put things into context, if we win today it'll be our greatest victory in the professional era IMO.

The bookies agree - South Africa are 1/6 favourites!

Fanster wrote:I honestly didn't mean that in a patronising way, but the height of Scotlands ambition seems to be qualification from the group, if thats a priority I get it, but theres a real shout at winning the group and possibly meeting an injury stricken Wales in the quarters, how could the Scots not be eyeing a semi final?!?!?!

Shifty wrote:...Because they know they haven't a hope in hell of beating Wales, England or Australia in the quarters.

BigGee wrote:Any decent side has got to be better than the sum of its best 15 players, you do well in tournaments and competitions by having and using a squad. Players will get battered and injured and can't be expected to produce week on week. The WC is totally different to the 6N which has built in recovery time.

Look at Toonie and Glasgow, who rotates every single week, regardless of results. He knows that it keeps the players fresh, hungry and on their toes. Remember it was not that long ago when it was harder to get out of the Scotland team than to get in it. That is not the case now. There are no A teams and B teams in this competition, it is just about managing the players.

For SA it is different, this is their must win game and their quick turnaround is still to come.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Fanster wrote:Extremely dissapointed in this Scottish lineup, I thought the Scots were going to be the ones to rock SA but Japan seem to have damaged Scots chances, however even a losing BP and denying SA a BP puts the group on edge in the final round, even if the favour is taken away from the slots a bit.

Are Scotland developing a reputation for selecting games they know they aren't good enough to win, and does this hurt the RWC?

Yes and yes. It's a reputation that is entirely justified as well. I personally find it shameful.

South Africa in 1999. I think that's the last time we've been brave enough to put out a full strength team against one of the Big 3 in a World Cup. Groups were smaller then and it was easier to qualify.

TJ wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Fanster wrote:Extremely dissapointed in this Scottish lineup, I thought the Scots were going to be the ones to rock SA but Japan seem to have damaged Scots chances, however even a losing BP and denying SA a BP puts the group on edge in the final round, even if the favour is taken away from the slots a bit.

Are Scotland developing a reputation for selecting games they know they aren't good enough to win, and does this hurt the RWC?

Yes and yes. It's a reputation that is entirely justified as well. I personally find it shameful.

South Africa in 1999. I think that's the last time we've been brave enough to put out a full strength team against one of the Big 3 in a World Cup. Groups were smaller then and it was easier to qualify.

This is not a deliberately weakened or second team tho is it. Russell is injured, we have too many game close together for some players especially props to play every minute of every game.  The only real "second string" choice could be Vernon - and he could be considered to be "horses for courses"

alive555 wrote:

TJ wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Fanster wrote:Extremely dissapointed in this Scottish lineup, I thought the Scots were going to be the ones to rock SA but Japan seem to have damaged Scots chances, however even a losing BP and denying SA a BP puts the group on edge in the final round, even if the favour is taken away from the slots a bit.

Are Scotland developing a reputation for selecting games they know they aren't good enough to win, and does this hurt the RWC?

Yes and yes. It's a reputation that is entirely justified as well. I personally find it shameful.

South Africa in 1999. I think that's the last time we've been brave enough to put out a full strength team against one of the Big 3 in a World Cup. Groups were smaller then and it was easier to qualify.

This is not a deliberately weakened or second team tho is it. Russell is injured, we have too many game close together for some players especially props to play every minute of every game.  The only real "second string" choice could be Vernon - and he could be considered to be "horses for courses"

u mean the Richie Vernon 22 caps no tries ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richie_Vernon

kingraf wrote:Jeez, when I last read this article, Scottish fans had a cautious optimism about them. Exactly what page did the mood change?

Riskysports wrote:God darn. Every time they mention Japan vs Scotland they mention it was because they were tired.

Shocking poor excuses