Political round up.............

by **superflyweight** Tue 21 Nov 2017, 8:01 pm

First topic message reminder :

LionsV2 wrote:
Galted wrote:

As much as I agree with you that much of the reason for the Leave vote was the racism and pig-ignorance of the likes of Lionsv2 and old people, I'm not sure the questions you're asking are particularly relevant. I'd quite like a cut in local crime but couldn't name a single local criminal.

I beg your pardon?

No doubt the mods will do nothing about that.

He said you were “PIG IGNORANT”. I’ve heard of hard of hearing before but not hard of reading.

by CaledonianCraig Sun 01 Apr 2018, 12:38 pm

Ent wrote:Leavers are viewed as stupid and racist by the media.

Not universally they are not whereas those that support independence for Scotland are. Sorry but that is just gross double standards and totally wrong. Scots who want independence see it as a great way forward for Scotland away from rank incompetence of Westminster rule where we have a say for ourselves on key matters such as Europe, trade deals etc etc etc. Evidently, that is not happening at present.

by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 01 Apr 2018, 4:39 pm

This Brexit negotiation has been a disaster...

Make-it-up-as-you-go-a-long Brexit..

This Russian case seems a bit interesting as well..

by GSC Sun 01 Apr 2018, 5:03 pm

Eh, I'd say the image of Scottish independence voters and Leavers are pretty similar.

If anything, the independence voters don't have to deal with the racist tag either.

by CaledonianCraig Sun 01 Apr 2018, 6:35 pm

GSC wrote:

If anything, the independence voters don't have to deal with the racist tag either.

No that is not true. Take a look on Have Your Say discussions on the BBC News website and national media discussion forums and if you support the SNP you are painted as anti-English.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 02 Apr 2018, 8:34 am

Cheap stereotyping is here to stay...Deal with it..

Tories are all rich.. posh...sneering types even though a lot of their vote comes from lower income voters..

Labour supporters are all anti-Semites because a tiny minority of their membership say nasty things about Jewish people..

SNP want independence so they hate the English..

If you get upset by ignorance in this World...You'd be upset 24/7..

by **navyblueshorts** Mon 02 Apr 2018, 9:41 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Samo wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Don't want to address the specific point that I raised? No, thought not.

That's ok, you can stick to reading whatever confirms your bias. Just don't expect anyone here to take you seriously, which they already don't.

That is a bit rich when people here choose to ignore the statistical facts about Scottish NHS as best performing in the UK. Just proves you have your own biases and are close-minded.

As someone whos partner works in the NHS I can confirm Scottish NHS is as Frak as Englands. There is a massive shortage of GP's, waiting time targets are regularly missed (and in 2017 they were the worst since records began in 2011) and the maintenance backlog is getting farcical. Ambulance waiting times are an all time high. Not to mention the disaster that was the opening of the Queen Margaret hospital.

Saying the Scottish NHS is the best performing in the UK is like saying one stab wound is better than two. You can put as much glitter on a turd as you want but its still a turd at the end of the day.

And thats just the NHS. You posted some nice statistics but they only paint half the picture. No mention of the botch-job of centralising the police force, local councils are on their knees because of a chronic lack of funding, £26m investment on various things like bi-lingual roadsigns and BBC Alba for the whole 1% of the population who speak Gaelic, over 1000 fewer firefighters since 2010, the list goes on.

I voted SNP all my adult life, but they've made a balls up of it.

Samo when you have people here portraying the SNP as totally useless and that Tory and Labour are governmental geniuses compared to them then I beg to differ greatly.

Okay you work in the Scottish NHS, and before I go on read my posts and I have never said everything is going swimmingly. And yes the Scottish NHS is performing best of the UK that is the point I make. Even the normally anti-SNP BBC have had to concede that when publishing NHS stats across the UK. So that being the case it is just one area where the SNP out-perform the Tories in government blowing this totally false theory that all the SNP does is incompetent and worse than the Tories or Labour who incidentally have hundreds of years of more experience in government yet it doesn't show.

People in Scotland invariably know which party has Scotland's best interests at heart. They have been in government for ten years now and recent polls suggest an increase in seats at the next election. And no that is not just because people who want independence vote for them as if it were we'd be an independent country now.
Lost the will to live at this point. No-one is claiming what you state there . Take off your rose-tinted 'Independence Glasses'....

I just find the double standards of people across social media (not just here) by Brit Nats as nauseatingly unfair. To them SNP supporters are nasty anti-English sorts. Totally and utterly wrong. Are Brit Nats who voted for Brexit all anti-Europeans who hate the Germans/French/ etc etc? No of course they are not seen as that. Oh the hypocrisy.

Scots who vote SNP and support independence hate being under the thumb of Westminster (sweet FA to do with any anti-English sentiment). We feel Scotland would be better as an independent country away from incompetent and unjust governing from Westminster. Just as Brexiteers have similar discontemt about being under the thumb of the EU and feel they would be better having freedom to make more decisions for themselves.

For some reason though Brexiteers are seen as decent people wanting what is best for them whereas Scots are seen as nasty bigots. Pathetic.

Honestly, if you actually believe that, there's little hope for you. Have you actually been listening to any of the narrative around Brexit and what's commonly said about either side by their opposites? You've clearly got a persecution complex, in addition to thinking the SNP are the Second Coming.

by Samo Tue 03 Apr 2018, 5:54 pm

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/salisbury-poisoning-russia-novichok-nerve-agent-porton-down-proof-evidence-mod-latest-a8286761.html

Oh look at that. Jeremy Corbyn was right. Again.

by **Pr4wn** Tue 03 Apr 2018, 5:59 pm

Good grief, that Independent website is bloody awful.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 03 Apr 2018, 6:11 pm

Samo wrote:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/salisbury-poisoning-russia-novichok-nerve-agent-porton-down-proof-evidence-mod-latest-a8286761.html

Oh look at that. Jeremy Corbyn was right. Again.

If they can't prove this nerve agent cane from Russia..

This will be big...

by **navyblueshorts** Tue 03 Apr 2018, 6:20 pm

Samo wrote:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/salisbury-poisoning-russia-novichok-nerve-agent-porton-down-proof-evidence-mod-latest-a8286761.html

Oh look at that. Jeremy Corbyn was right. Again.

Seriously??? Porton Down are scientists. They never claimed they could pin it on that Russian thug. Why don't you accept that perhaps, just perhaps, HM Government has access to just a teensy weensy bit more evidence/data than you get from an Independent article, which you're also wilfully misinterpreting?

by **navyblueshorts** Tue 03 Apr 2018, 6:22 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Samo wrote:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/salisbury-poisoning-russia-novichok-nerve-agent-porton-down-proof-evidence-mod-latest-a8286761.html

Oh look at that. Jeremy Corbyn was right. Again.

If they can't prove this nerve agent cane from Russia..

This will be big...

Good grief. No it won't. They couldn't actually prove that Lugovoy etc delivered that Po²¹⁰ and that it came from Russia or was a State-sanctioned poisoning. Porton Down aren't in a position to determine where this nerve agent came from; they never were.

by Samo Tue 03 Apr 2018, 6:40 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Samo wrote:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/salisbury-poisoning-russia-novichok-nerve-agent-porton-down-proof-evidence-mod-latest-a8286761.html

Oh look at that. Jeremy Corbyn was right. Again.
Seriously??? Porton Down are scientists. They never claimed they could pin it on that Russian thug. Why don't you accept that perhaps, just perhaps, HM Government has access to just a teensy weensy bit more evidence/data than you get from an Independent article, which you're also wilfully misinterpreting?

The point is that Corbyn was lambasted from all sides and portrayed as a "Krelim Stooge" for having the gall to suggest we get evidence before flinging potentially dangerous accusations and statements around. This was biggest argument being used that it was Russia - It was made in Russia so it must have been a Russian attack. Now that is looking less and less likely it was the case.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 03 Apr 2018, 10:18 pm

Samo wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Samo wrote:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/salisbury-poisoning-russia-novichok-nerve-agent-porton-down-proof-evidence-mod-latest-a8286761.html

Oh look at that. Jeremy Corbyn was right. Again.
Seriously??? Porton Down are scientists. They never claimed they could pin it on that Russian thug. Why don't you accept that perhaps, just perhaps, HM Government has access to just a teensy weensy bit more evidence/data than you get from an Independent article, which you're also wilfully misinterpreting?

The point is that Corbyn was lambasted from all sides and portrayed as a "Krelim Stooge" for having the gall to suggest we get evidence before flinging potentially dangerous accusations and statements around. This was biggest argument being used that it was Russia - It was made in Russia so it must have been a Russian attack. Now that is looking less and less likely it was the case.

Corbyn asked for proof..

Seems reasonable to me....

by Mad for Chelsea Wed 04 Apr 2018, 12:08 pm

Aside from the ridiculous but hardly unexpected reaction to Corbyn's cautious message, the issue with the latest story for me are twofold.

1) When comparisons were - inevitably - made to the Iraq case, a counter-argument was that this was different. And a large part of the reasoning for those differences were that scientists had categorically identified the nerve agent used in this case. The implication was that this case was built on Science rather than Intelligence, and that while there are valid reasons to be sceptical about some of the dossiers compiled by Intelligence services on matters of foreign policy in the past, in this case the evidence was solid.

It now appears that the case was built on a variety of things, including the scientific findings, and the intelligence gathered. It also emerged that May had initially chosen not to share the intelligence briefings with Corbyn (as is of course her right), which might explain some of Corbyn's caution.

2) Boris Johnson. He lied. Again. This time by making the claim that the scientists at PD had told him categorically that the nerve agent was Russian made.

The issue with this is that Johnson is no longer a backbencher who can afford to be a bumbling buffoon. He is the Foreign Secretary, and as such has rather a lot of responsibility. His lies above will have had an effect, and possibly an influence on the reaction of the UK's allies in expelling Russian diplomats (the US are on record as saying essentially they didn't see the evidence, but trusted the UK).

Of course, there's also a wider issue, that in jumping the gun a bit too quickly the UK government has handed an easy opportunity to Russia in the PR battles.

by Duty281 Wed 04 Apr 2018, 4:14 pm

What a story from the Times - 'Sources close to Jeremy Corbyn say he did not join chants of "f*** the police" at a far-left Passover celebration'.

by Samo Wed 04 Apr 2018, 5:56 pm

Duty281 wrote:What a story from the Times - 'Sources close to Jeremy Corbyn say he did not join chants of "f*** the police" at a far-left Passover celebration'.

They're getting desperate now.

by CaledonianCraig Wed 04 Apr 2018, 6:24 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Samo wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Don't want to address the specific point that I raised? No, thought not.

That's ok, you can stick to reading whatever confirms your bias. Just don't expect anyone here to take you seriously, which they already don't.

That is a bit rich when people here choose to ignore the statistical facts about Scottish NHS as best performing in the UK. Just proves you have your own biases and are close-minded.

As someone whos partner works in the NHS I can confirm Scottish NHS is as Frak as Englands. There is a massive shortage of GP's, waiting time targets are regularly missed (and in 2017 they were the worst since records began in 2011) and the maintenance backlog is getting farcical. Ambulance waiting times are an all time high. Not to mention the disaster that was the opening of the Queen Margaret hospital.

Saying the Scottish NHS is the best performing in the UK is like saying one stab wound is better than two. You can put as much glitter on a turd as you want but its still a turd at the end of the day.

And thats just the NHS. You posted some nice statistics but they only paint half the picture. No mention of the botch-job of centralising the police force, local councils are on their knees because of a chronic lack of funding, £26m investment on various things like bi-lingual roadsigns and BBC Alba for the whole 1% of the population who speak Gaelic, over 1000 fewer firefighters since 2010, the list goes on.

I voted SNP all my adult life, but they've made a balls up of it.

Samo when you have people here portraying the SNP as totally useless and that Tory and Labour are governmental geniuses compared to them then I beg to differ greatly.

Okay you work in the Scottish NHS, and before I go on read my posts and I have never said everything is going swimmingly. And yes the Scottish NHS is performing best of the UK that is the point I make. Even the normally anti-SNP BBC have had to concede that when publishing NHS stats across the UK. So that being the case it is just one area where the SNP out-perform the Tories in government blowing this totally false theory that all the SNP does is incompetent and worse than the Tories or Labour who incidentally have hundreds of years of more experience in government yet it doesn't show.

People in Scotland invariably know which party has Scotland's best interests at heart. They have been in government for ten years now and recent polls suggest an increase in seats at the next election. And no that is not just because people who want independence vote for them as if it were we'd be an independent country now.
Lost the will to live at this point. No-one is claiming what you state there . Take off your rose-tinted 'Independence Glasses'....

I just find the double standards of people across social media (not just here) by Brit Nats as nauseatingly unfair. To them SNP supporters are nasty anti-English sorts. Totally and utterly wrong. Are Brit Nats who voted for Brexit all anti-Europeans who hate the Germans/French/ etc etc? No of course they are not seen as that. Oh the hypocrisy.

Scots who vote SNP and support independence hate being under the thumb of Westminster (sweet FA to do with any anti-English sentiment). We feel Scotland would be better as an independent country away from incompetent and unjust governing from Westminster. Just as Brexiteers have similar discontemt about being under the thumb of the EU and feel they would be better having freedom to make more decisions for themselves.

For some reason though Brexiteers are seen as decent people wanting what is best for them whereas Scots are seen as nasty bigots. Pathetic.
Honestly, if you actually believe that, there's little hope for you. Have you actually been listening to any of the narrative around Brexit and what's commonly said about either side by their opposites? You've clearly got a persecution complex, in addition to thinking the SNP are the Second Coming.

Its not a matter of believing it or not the opinions are splattered across several social media forms with that opinion. Go onto Have Your Say on the BBC posts and it often said.

As for Brexit I have said it beore and will say it again - I am apathetic about it all. However, for those who want Brexit as they see it as better for them having more say on how their country is run that makes them no different to Scots who want independence from Westminster.

i have been on this Earth for almost 50 years and have lived through countless Tory and countless Labour governments. That is enough for me and reading posts on here I am certainly not alone in being totally disillusioned with Tory and Labour parties.

by Ent Wed 04 Apr 2018, 10:13 pm

To be fair you could quite easily count the labour and conservative governments in the last 50 years.

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 05 Apr 2018, 9:08 am

Watched newsnight last night and anyone cynical could be fooled into thinking the BBC were trying to spin this Russian story for the Government...

by **superflyweight** Thu 05 Apr 2018, 12:36 pm

Ent wrote:To be fair you could quite easily count the labour and conservative governments in the last 50 years.

Not if you include governments in infinite alternative realities.

I'm heartened to know that in one those alternative realities that another version of me is reading a post by another version of Craig that accepts even the slightest criticism of the SNP.

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 05 Apr 2018, 1:12 pm

Samo wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Samo wrote:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/salisbury-poisoning-russia-novichok-nerve-agent-porton-down-proof-evidence-mod-latest-a8286761.html

Oh look at that. Jeremy Corbyn was right. Again.
Seriously??? Porton Down are scientists. They never claimed they could pin it on that Russian thug. Why don't you accept that perhaps, just perhaps, HM Government has access to just a teensy weensy bit more evidence/data than you get from an Independent article, which you're also wilfully misinterpreting?

The point is that Corbyn was lambasted from all sides and portrayed as a "Krelim Stooge" for having the gall to suggest we get evidence before flinging potentially dangerous accusations and statements around. This was biggest argument being used that it was Russia - It was made in Russia so it must have been a Russian attack. Now that is looking less and less likely it was the case.

No tovarisch, it's not.

Also, either Russia did it (highly likely), or they've lost some of their highly dangerous, undeclared (and therefore utterly illegal) and classified nerve agents. Either way, they're a disgrace and should be called as such.

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 05 Apr 2018, 1:23 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Watched newsnight last night and anyone cynical could be fooled into thinking the BBC were trying to spin this Russian story for the Government...

You could indeed think that if one harbours inherent thoughts that the BBC are biased. It's laughable really - so many currently rail against the BBC for its supposed left-wing bias and here you are, suggesting they harbour a right-wing bias.
The reality is, it would appear you also think Russia are utterly above reproach re. this issue and simply see confirmation of BBC 'bias' when they dare to suggest/report something different.

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 05 Apr 2018, 1:23 pm

superflyweight wrote:
Ent wrote:To be fair you could quite easily count the labour and conservative governments in the last 50 years.

Not if you include governments in infinite alternative realities.

I'm heartened to know that in one those alternative realities that another version of me is reading a post by another version of Craig that accepts even the slightest criticism of the SNP.

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 05 Apr 2018, 4:02 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Watched newsnight last night and anyone cynical could be fooled into thinking the BBC were trying to spin this Russian story for the Government...
You could indeed think that if one harbours inherent thoughts that the BBC are biased. It's laughable really - so many currently rail against the BBC for its supposed left-wing bias and here you are, suggesting they harbour a right-wing bias.
The reality is, it would appear you also think Russia are utterly above reproach re. this issue and simply see confirmation of BBC 'bias' when they dare to suggest/report something different.

Laughable putting Corbyn in front of the Kremlin...Changing his hat and colouring the picture red..

Laughable ignoring completely a 60,000 people strong NHS march....

Laughable they have ignored the Cambridge Analytica story..

Laughable the BBC said "Boris suggested the source".............when he Confirmed it..

I don't find it amusing nor should you..

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 05 Apr 2018, 5:40 pm

Whatever. It's clear where your biases are. No need to apologise.

Re. Corbyn and his Russian hat etc. It was a Newsnight article about the Salisbury poisoning, Russia's possible involvement (hence, you know, the red colouring, Kremlin etc) and a picture of Jeremy Corbyn dropped on top because, you know, Corbyn made some controversial remarks about it and is pretty left wing. Get over it.

Re. NHS march, see: https://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=nhs+march

Re. Cambridge Analytica - what are you on? See: https://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=cambridge+analytica

No idea re. Johnson's quote you're talking about. Source please?

by **ShahenshahG** Thu 05 Apr 2018, 5:45 pm

Yup. BBC lost its Love sacks after Hutton inquiry. It's been increasingly a state mouthpiece ever since. So left and right wing bias at different times is inevitable especially with half the conservative party with direct links to the DG, Neil, Kuensberg, Robinson. Right now it's pretty crap and is getting worse especially the scrapping of two panorama investigations.

by **ShahenshahG** Thu 05 Apr 2018, 5:50 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:Whatever. It's clear where your biases are. No need to apologise.

Re. Corbyn and his Russian hat etc. It was a Newsnight article about the Salisbury poisoning, Russia's possible involvement (hence, you know, the red colouring, Kremlin etc) and a picture of Jeremy Corbyn dropped on top because, you know, Corbyn made some controversial remarks about it and is pretty left wing. Get over it.

Re. NHS march, see: https://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=nhs+march

Re. Cambridge Analytica - what are you on? See: https://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=cambridge+analytica

No idea re. Johnson's quote you're talking about. Source please?

https://twitter.com/ToryFibs/status/981490624976343042?s=19

https://twitter.com/SocialistVoice/status/981209164088336386?s=19

by **ShahenshahG** Thu 05 Apr 2018, 5:55 pm

https://twitter.com/RusEmbMalta/status/980521180460388352?s=19

This'll tickle you no matter what side of the argument you're on. Russian embassy in Malta trolling

by Samo Thu 05 Apr 2018, 6:39 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Watched newsnight last night and anyone cynical could be fooled into thinking the BBC were trying to spin this Russian story for the Government...
You could indeed think that if one harbours inherent thoughts that the BBC are biased. It's laughable really - so many currently rail against the BBC for its supposed left-wing bias and here you are, suggesting they harbour a right-wing bias.
The reality is, it would appear you also think Russia are utterly above reproach re. this issue and simply see confirmation of BBC 'bias' when they dare to suggest/report something different.

Laughable putting Corbyn in front of the Kremlin...Changing his hat and colouring the picture red..

Laughable ignoring completely a 60,000 people strong NHS march....

Laughable they have ignored the Cambridge Analytica story..

Laughable the BBC said "Boris suggested the source".............when he Confirmed it..

I don't find it amusing nor should you..

Dont forget BBC Head of News Richard Burgess claiming the reason Farages Thames stunt wasnt covered by the BBC was because the BBC didnt have a reporter there, who was then quickly corrected by the BBC reporter who was in fact there.

by Samo Thu 05 Apr 2018, 6:41 pm

ShahenshahG wrote:https://twitter.com/RusEmbMalta/status/980521180460388352?s=19

This'll tickle you no matter what side of the argument you're on. Russian embassy in Malta trolling

Reminds me of this classic from Spitting Image

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1l1XGiXgo0

by **Pr4wn** Thu 05 Apr 2018, 6:48 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:Whatever. It's clear where your biases are. No need to apologise.

Re. Corbyn and his Russian hat etc. It was a Newsnight article about the Salisbury poisoning, Russia's possible involvement (hence, you know, the red colouring, Kremlin etc) and a picture of Jeremy Corbyn dropped on top because, you know, Corbyn made some controversial remarks about it and is pretty left wing. Get over it.

Re. NHS march, see: https://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=nhs+march

Re. Cambridge Analytica - what are you on? See: https://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=cambridge+analytica

No idea re. Johnson's quote you're talking about. Source please?

So your rebuttal is "whatever", "get over it" and "I don't know". Nice.

Not being funny but it doesn't look like Truss is the one with the biases here.

by **ShahenshahG** Thu 05 Apr 2018, 7:28 pm

Samo wrote:
ShahenshahG wrote:https://twitter.com/RusEmbMalta/status/980521180460388352?s=19

This'll tickle you no matter what side of the argument you're on. Russian embassy in Malta trolling

Reminds me of this classic from Spitting Image

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1l1XGiXgo0

Brilliant

Read down a bit there's a voter called Bob proving the video is actually an understatement.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 06 Apr 2018, 11:05 am

navyblueshorts wrote:Whatever. It's clear where your biases are. No need to apologise.

Re. NHS march, see: https://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=nhs+march

Re. Cambridge Analytica - what are you on? See: https://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=cambridge+analytica

No idea re. Johnson's quote you're talking about. Source please?

These stories were not covered on the evening news and Boris interview was edited on Newsnight..

As for calling me out as biased...

That is irrelevant as I have proven my case. ...If one may offer some advice..

Take your head out of your ass.

by CaledonianCraig Fri 06 Apr 2018, 8:40 pm

Would it really be so ridiculous if it were to be revealed if the government blew this poisoning thing up out of all proportion as a diversionary tactic given that Brexit talks have been draining support for the Tories? And before people jump down my throat lets not get on the moral high ground on the British government as just remember this country's government did take the UK into a war based on lies about supposed Weapons of Mass Destruction.

by **Pr4wn** Fri 06 Apr 2018, 9:25 pm

Probably would be a bit ridiculous, yeah.

But something doesn't smell right about all of this, for sure. One of the world's deadliest nerve agents and the only deaths so far are the victims' pets that starved to death.

by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 08 Apr 2018, 9:41 am

New Poll......Scotland..

SNP 36 -5
CON 28 +1
LAB 27 +3

Independence....

Yes 43
No 57

Must be the new Tax rises kicking in ??

by **navyblueshorts** Mon 09 Apr 2018, 11:12 am

Pr4wn wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:Whatever. It's clear where your biases are. No need to apologise.

Re. Corbyn and his Russian hat etc. It was a Newsnight article about the Salisbury poisoning, Russia's possible involvement (hence, you know, the red colouring, Kremlin etc) and a picture of Jeremy Corbyn dropped on top because, you know, Corbyn made some controversial remarks about it and is pretty left wing. Get over it.

Re. NHS march, see: https://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=nhs+march

Re. Cambridge Analytica - what are you on? See: https://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=cambridge+analytica

No idea re. Johnson's quote you're talking about. Source please?

So your rebuttal is "whatever", "get over it" and "I don't know". Nice.

Not being funny but it doesn't look like Truss is the one with the biases here.

You're right with one thing - you're not being funny.

by **navyblueshorts** Mon 09 Apr 2018, 11:15 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:Whatever. It's clear where your biases are. No need to apologise.

Re. NHS march, see: https://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=nhs+march

Re. Cambridge Analytica - what are you on? See: https://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=cambridge+analytica

No idea re. Johnson's quote you're talking about. Source please?

These stories were not covered on the evening news and Boris interview was edited on Newsnight..

As for calling me out as biased...

That is irrelevant as I have proven my case. ...If one may offer some advice..

Take your head out of your ass.

Pot. Kettle.

by **navyblueshorts** Mon 09 Apr 2018, 11:29 am

Pr4wn wrote:Probably would be a bit ridiculous, yeah.

But something doesn't smell right about all of this, for sure. One of the world's deadliest nerve agents and the only deaths so far are the victims' pets that starved to death.

Something doesn't 'smell right' because you don't understand what happened? What makes you think you (or any of the public) should be privy to all the details? We know nothing about the amount of agent used, its form or its delivery and yet you feel qualified to think this doesn't 'smell right'?
What's more likely? A Russian WMD is used by a regime to poison a 'traitor'; a regime that thought nothing of using ²¹⁰Po in public to kill another 'traitor' and that's well known for it's behaviour to those that oppose Putin's regime or UK Government replicate this agent in Porton Down and use it to poison a former Soviet KGB agent, in public, in order to lay blame at the door of the Kremlin, thereby achieving what exactly?
The credence given to this 'false flag' bollox is laughable.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 09 Apr 2018, 1:44 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:Whatever. It's clear where your biases are. No need to apologise.

Re. NHS march, see: https://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=nhs+march

Re. Cambridge Analytica - what are you on? See: https://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=cambridge+analytica

No idea re. Johnson's quote you're talking about. Source please?

These stories were not covered on the evening news and Boris interview was edited on Newsnight..

As for calling me out as biased...

That is irrelevant as I have proven my case. ...If one may offer some advice..

Take your head out of your ass.
Pot. Kettle.

The usual substantive response...

by **Pr4wn** Mon 09 Apr 2018, 1:53 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Probably would be a bit ridiculous, yeah.

But something doesn't smell right about all of this, for sure. One of the world's deadliest nerve agents and the only deaths so far are the victims' pets that starved to death.
Something doesn't 'smell right' because you don't understand what happened? What makes you think you (or any of the public) should be privy to all the details? We know nothing about the amount of agent used, its form or its delivery and yet you feel qualified to think this doesn't 'smell right'?
What's more likely? A Russian WMD is used by a regime to poison a 'traitor'; a regime that thought nothing of using ²¹⁰Po in public to kill another 'traitor' and that's well known for it's behaviour to those that oppose Putin's regime or UK Government replicate this agent in Porton Down and use it to poison a former Soviet KGB agent, in public, in order to lay blame at the door of the Kremlin, thereby achieving what exactly?
The credence given to this 'false flag' bollox is laughable.

You're pretty angry, mate. You should probably calm down a bit.

All I'm saying is that the public deserve a little more than they're getting from the government, especially considering UK Gov's track record on misleading the public into wars.

by **navyblueshorts** Mon 09 Apr 2018, 3:57 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:Whatever. It's clear where your biases are. No need to apologise.

Re. NHS march, see: https://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=nhs+march

Re. Cambridge Analytica - what are you on? See: https://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=cambridge+analytica

No idea re. Johnson's quote you're talking about. Source please?

These stories were not covered on the evening news and Boris interview was edited on Newsnight..

As for calling me out as biased...

That is irrelevant as I have proven my case. ...If one may offer some advice..

Take your head out of your ass.
Pot. Kettle.

The usual substantive response...

Et tu...

by **navyblueshorts** Mon 09 Apr 2018, 4:11 pm

Pr4wn wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Probably would be a bit ridiculous, yeah.

But something doesn't smell right about all of this, for sure. One of the world's deadliest nerve agents and the only deaths so far are the victims' pets that starved to death.
Something doesn't 'smell right' because you don't understand what happened? What makes you think you (or any of the public) should be privy to all the details? We know nothing about the amount of agent used, its form or its delivery and yet you feel qualified to think this doesn't 'smell right'?
What's more likely? A Russian WMD is used by a regime to poison a 'traitor'; a regime that thought nothing of using ²¹⁰Po in public to kill another 'traitor' and that's well known for it's behaviour to those that oppose Putin's regime or UK Government replicate this agent in Porton Down and use it to poison a former Soviet KGB agent, in public, in order to lay blame at the door of the Kremlin, thereby achieving what exactly?
The credence given to this 'false flag' bollox is laughable.

You're pretty angry, mate. You should probably calm down a bit.

All I'm saying is that the public deserve a little more than they're getting from the government, especially considering UK Gov's track record on misleading the public into wars.

You're right. I probably should calm down a bit. Hey ho. Work does that sort of thing...

With respect, in the context of what this is about, the public have naff all right to know anything much, except for reassurance that this particular chemical release is being safely dealt with, how to deal with any suspected symptoms and to provide updates when appropriate etc.

I'm no supporter of the UK Government's track record on many things, but for anyone to imply that Russia is the more likely to be telling the truth over this, in light of what anyone currently knows, is insane. The diplomatic response is pretty much unprecedented - do you really think that these other, independent, States would expel Russian diplomats on simply a UK say-so, especially after Iraq? More fool them if they did so.

If Russia really wanted to get on our good side, they could do away with Boris - not even a useful idiot.

by **Pr4wn** Mon 09 Apr 2018, 4:33 pm

I'm certainly not implying that Russia is more likely to be telling the truth, just saying that the public absolutely does deserve to know more details if the result of this is acceleration into another cold war.

I personally believe that exercising restraint until the facts can be established and proof can be found is the better option.

by **navyblueshorts** Mon 09 Apr 2018, 10:04 pm

Pr4wn wrote:I'm certainly not implying that Russia is more likely to be telling the truth, just saying that the public absolutely does deserve to know more details if the result of this is acceleration into another cold war.

I personally believe that exercising restraint until the facts can be established and proof can be found is the better option.

Fair points. Joe Public 'deserves' to know what's happening when it's appropriate to tell him. Yes, I would hope we'd find out a bit more if this gets properly serious, but I don't expect to get chapter and verse.
This is restraint - so far it's words and kicking out dodgy diplomats. I would hope the 'facts' are clear enough to those who need to know - hence the response to-date. This Russian regime stinks - Georgia, Chechnya, Crimea, Eastern Ukraine (incl. downing of Malaysian passenger jet), Litvinenko, Syria, Nemtsov, Politkovskaya etc etc etc...

by Duty281 Tue 10 Apr 2018, 1:43 pm

Nick Griffin on the cusp of voting Labour. Laugh

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 10 Apr 2018, 9:17 pm

He votes Ukip at the moment like you...

by Duty281 Tue 10 Apr 2018, 9:20 pm

Haven't voted UKIP since...2015?

by **navyblueshorts** Tue 10 Apr 2018, 9:36 pm

Duty281 wrote:Nick Griffin on the cusp of voting Labour.

Which means?

by lostinwales Wed 11 Apr 2018, 12:45 pm

Re. Skirpal poisoning. The method of attack seems to have been that the agent was applied to the door handle, so the 2 Skirpals and the unfortunate police officer got their dose through touching the handle. Nobody else did because of the magic of gloves.

Although these agents are incredibly dangerous, the figures quoted usually apply to the most 'ideal' form of attack. They are significantly less dangerous through skin exposure. You have to add to that the general incompetence of the assassin and most importantly the availability of expert advice in the treatment of the victims. It seems like our emergency services actually did a very good job to prevent fatalities, although obviously they messed up with the pets.

When you add in past and current Russian behaviour, the anecdotal evidence released so far 'the package has been delivered' etc. then everything only points one way. This does not discount the government using the story for political capital and to try to distract media attention. Nobody trusts them. It does however seem that the EU and (if only nominally) the US have trusted them over this.

All the 'don't be too hasty' movement doesn't really help. There is so much 'real' stuff actually going wrong due to the actions of the government (generally brexit related because a) its a clusterf**k, and b) because of it the government isn't actually doing any actual governing) and the lack of actions of the opposition that it feels really frustrating that these arguments are blowing up over stuff that there should be broad agreement over.

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