The Dew Drop Inn Virtual Rugby Pub

First topic message reminder :

Welcome to the virtual rugby pub - a place where you can come in for a sly beverage and discuss whatever's on your mind, or just eavesdrop on the regulars if you fancy a break from all the rugby chat.

The only rule in this pub is one of mutual respect for everyone in it, oh and no defacing the collage of great current props' pictures on the bar. We've got Castrogiovanni, Beast, the Franks brothers, Mas, Tonga'uiha, Roncero, Cian Healey (as demanded by Hughie), Stevens, Murray, Mike Ross, Adam Jones and Steenkamp all in action. Graffiti's a banning offence

So pull up a chair....what'll it be?




Previous pub: https://www.606v2.com/t14533-the-dew-drop-inn-virtual-rugby-pub

Notch wrote:Saw Nick Mallett throwing down the gauntlet to the Irish front scrum; said 'We know we have a better front row'. Will be an interesting battle. I thin we've come on a lot, so long as Healy or Ross doesn't go down injured

Who’s the ref for our game agianst them?

Don’t say Poite.
Don’t say Poite.
Don’t say Poite.
Don’t say Poite.
Don’t say Poite.
Don’t say Poite.
Don’t say Poite.
Don’t say Poite.
Don’t say Poite.

Morning Hound. It's good that we're all sweating on our last games. Formalities are boring.

Mickado - Poite?

Sweating? Me? Only when Tommy's about

Mickado - I really agree. Poite would really hurt us badly at the scrum. I think his way of doing the scrum appears to have a lot of basis in 'common sense' and educated estimates. However at the top level there is too much bluff and double bluff for the simplistic "Team A are stronger, therefore Team B must have infringed" approach.



Thankfully we don't have Poite Jonathan Kaplan will ref it instead.

Good stuff. I checked the RWC website and there didn’t seem to be any preview of the game up there so I panicked and went to the dark place in my mind (Poite). I know very little about refs, I only notice the things they do wrong (like most people) but I do notice that we’re constantly infringed, rightly or wrongly, at scrum time by Monsieur Poite.

How will Kaplan influence how we play the game do you think?

I don't think he will have all that big a bearing. People will talk about the Mike Phillips incident and that but I think we should be fine. We've had 3 South Africa referees in our 4 Pool Stage games. I think just keep doing what we do.

Ah yes, he was at the helm for that wasn’t he. Well let hope that was a once off, the poor communication with the TJ that is, not that he missed the incident to begin with.

One thing that threw me after the Aus game was the pundits saying that we played the SH refs well, how did we do that?! Surely the Aussies would know exactly what to expect from them and it would be up to us to adapt.

I didn't think there was anything wrong with the communication between Kaplan and Peter Allan in Cardiff. Kaplan asked him a question and Peter Allan answered. The problem was that Peter Allan lied when he said he was sure that the same ball had been used. Kaplan wasn't at fault, surely?

I agree thats a bit silly Mick. We have played the maul interpretations brilliantly but I don't think we played or hoodwinked any refs. I genuinely think the Aussies didn't expect to lose to us and are looking for reasons to justify the loss - played the referee.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:I didn't think there was anything wrong with the communication between Kaplan and Peter Allan in Cardiff. Kaplan asked him a question and Peter Allan answered. The problem was that Peter Allan lied when he said he was sure that the same ball had been used. Kaplan wasn't at fault, surely?

The way I saw it was that Kaplan asked one question and Allen answered another. Neither of them clarified what question they were asking or answering.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:I didn't think there was anything wrong with the communication between Kaplan and Peter Allan in Cardiff. Kaplan asked him a question and Peter Allan answered. The problem was that Peter Allan lied when he said he was sure that the same ball had been used. Kaplan wasn't at fault, surely?

Oh Luckless the communication was dreadful. I blame Allan considerably more than Kaplan but the communication was apalling and contributed to it. Having watched the incident several times it is clear that Kaplan is assuming that it is a quick throw but that Allan assumes a normal lineout has been completed. The communication between the pair was terrible. Allan actually starts to tell Kaplan that it's not a quick throw at all but a quickly taken lineout by Wales. Kaplan interrupts him and asks if the "correct ball" was used. Allan replies "yes". The two were talking at cross purposes from the start and were completely out of sync with what the other meant. Usual protocol would be Kaplan explains what he saw and asks if Allan has anything to add. This hasty conversation where neither understood the other was a major factor in allowing the try.

It wasn't that Allan "lied" he merely interpreted it differently and Kaplan should have established that.

I see. I don't really remember the incident too clearly, just that I was gutted for Ireland that it happened.

I bet you were. . . . cheeky git

Only kidding, Stag. Defeat always hurts but when you throw injustice in as well it's no fun at all. We've all experienced it at some point.

Assuming we meet in the quarters, let's hope that, whatever the result, it won't have come down to anything like that.

Ya bollix.

Here’s a question Stag, Kiss is using the choke tackle to our advantage at the moment, it’s like we’ve exploited a loop hole in the current interpretation of the law. Do you think if it becomes more widespread the onus will be on the IRB to ask ref’s to interpret it differently?
I was reading an article by Will Greenwood who basically put Kiss up there with Bill Fosby for his ability to change the technique in a sport. I was tempted to reply to Greenwood and tell him that Ireland have been using it for a few years and Kiss himself admitted it was a tactic used by the Waratahs when he coached there. Matt Williams actually mentioned that it was a tool in the arsenal of the Waratah’s team from the 1920’s!!!

Feic that Luckless here's my ideal scenario:

- Ireland losing by 4 points last minute, 5m out from Wales tryline

- O'Brien gets a metre or two and we get fast ball with an overlap outside us.

- O'Gara (who came on to rescue the game) passes to Wallace who has Keith Earls on his outside. He throws an intercept which is caught by James Hook who runs the lenght of field and scores. Welsh crowd goes wild and Bread of Heaven booms around the stadium.

- Referee wrongly judges Hook to be offside and disallows the try. He instead awards a Penalty Try to Ireland. Ireland win!!!

- Revenge is complete

luckless_pedestrian wrote:Only kidding, Stag. Defeat always hurts but when you throw injustice in as well it's no fun at all. We've all experienced it at some point.

Assuming we meet in the quarters, let's hope that, whatever the result, it won't have come down to anything like that.

Meh, in that game in Cardiff Ireland could have made it not matter if we hadn't played like idiots for 80 minutes! Even in the dying moments we first failed to execute an overlap in the 22 (although it was particularly well defended by Wales) and then knocked the ball on on the next phase. We just didn't play well and thats why we lost, despite the dubious nature of the Welsh try.

red_stag wrote:Feic that Luckless here's my ideal scenario:

- Ireland losing by 4 points last minute, 5m out from Wales tryline

- O'Brien gets a metre or two and we get fast ball with an overlap outside us.

- O'Gara (who came on to rescue the game) passes to Wallace who has Keith Earls on his outside. He throws an intercept which is caught by James Hook who runs the lenght of field and scores. Welsh crowd goes wild and Bread of Heaven booms around the stadium.

- Referee wrongly judges Hook to be offside and disallows the try. He instead awards a Penalty Try to Ireland. Ireland win!!!

- Revenge is complete

Revenge, Irish style...

I'd almost prefer that to winning fair and square just for the amusement of seeing it all kick off on the forum.

I noticed England using the choke tackle a few times against Romania on the weekend. The onus is on the attacking team to get support to the ball carrier to make sure they get the ball down. I'd be surprised if Ireland's opponents from now on are as unaware of the tactic as Australia seemed to be.

Mickado wrote:Here’s a question Stag, Kiss is using the choke tackle to our advantage at the moment, it’s like we’ve exploited a loop hole in the current interpretation of the law. Do you think if it becomes more widespread the onus will be on the IRB to ask ref’s to interpret it differently?

Yes possibly, the reasoning behind it is that a maul is such an advantage to attacking team. Trundling along in attack with ball secured at the back of it makes it hard to stop. So the iRB has this interpretation as a type of handicap and level the playing field.

red_stag wrote:Feic that Luckless here's my ideal scenario:

- Ireland losing by 4 points last minute, 5m out from Wales tryline

- O'Brien gets a metre or two and we get fast ball with an overlap outside us.

- O'Gara (who came on to rescue the game) passes to Wallace who has Keith Earls on his outside. He throws an intercept which is caught by James Hook who runs the lenght of field and scores. Welsh crowd goes wild and Bread of Heaven booms around the stadium.

- Referee wrongly judges Hook to be offside and disallows the try. He instead awards a Penalty Try to Ireland. Ireland win!!!

- Revenge is complete

You never know, Stag!

red_stag wrote:

Mickado wrote:Here’s a question Stag, Kiss is using the choke tackle to our advantage at the moment, it’s like we’ve exploited a loop hole in the current interpretation of the law. Do you think if it becomes more widespread the onus will be on the IRB to ask ref’s to interpret it differently?

Yes possibly, the reasoning behind it is that a maul is such an advantage to attacking team. Trundling along in attack with ball secured at the back of it makes it hard to stop. So the iRB has this interpretation as a type of handicap and level the playing field.

I think it is a fair tactic. It's not impossible to negate if you get numbers to the ball carrier quickly or the ball carrier has the strength to get the ground and keep going forward.

I think if we face France ditch the choke tackle.

Morning all, hope that everyone is well? Just been entering my SG predictions for the last round. Feeling under some obligation, I felt duty bound to opt for a Scotland win over England, more out of hope than belief - before I'd even submitted the 'predicted spread' for the win, the SG system came back with: "Friendly warning - You have selected Scotland to win this game. This result will be considered quite an upset, so be sure about picking it." Cheeky feicers

Hey, surely that takes the fun out of it if they tell you when you're most likely wrong?

You know if Ireland had not missed out on their bonus point against the USA, we would just need a losing bonus point to win the group. Now we need at least 2 points to do that and if we don't get them we are probably out of the competition.

I know i'm asking a lot of questions today, i don't know why, but just bare with me.

Just to get this straight in my head, we hold up the ball carrier and it becomes a maul, which we are technically defending because the opponent still has the ball. When the maul is eventually brought down it must be done by the attacking team (because we're trying to keep everything off the deck), becuase they collapse their own maul we get the scrum even if they're moving forward with the ball?

Stag,

Looking forward to Saturday?

Glas,

We got a very good reaction last night. No trouble at all.

Is it as complicated as that? I had thought collapsing the maul is an offence whether you're defending or attacking and possession will revert to the other side if you bring it down.

red_stag wrote:I think if we face France ditch the choke tackle.

+1. And especially if we play New Zealand. Their upper body strength is far too much for us.

I am. I saw on Facebook you might not be able to give me a lift down?Notch its illegal to collapse a maul. A maul can go to ground innocently though and it isn't an offense for a ball carrier to go to ground.

Mick usually the ball carrier is just trying to go to deck.

Yeah I can. He has given it the ok

You need to come to the match. We can't come into Dublin to collect ye. We have to leave straight away after the match.

Where is the match?

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Morning all, hope that everyone is well? Just been entering my SG predictions for the last round. Feeling under some obligation, I felt duty bound to opt for a Scotland win over England, more out of hope than belief - before I'd even submitted the 'predicted spread' for the win, the SG system came back with: "Friendly warning - You have selected Scotland to win this game. This result will be considered quite an upset, so be sure about picking it." Cheeky feicers

I'm punting for a Scottish win as well although I think England and Argentina will still qualify. The English are on an up at the moment and Robinson is surely going to set out to win the game first and foremost. Can't see them getting a bonus point of any description though. Scotland by 4.

It's in Seapoint.

Now I’m even more confused because collapsing a maul is a penalty no?

I thought it might have something to do with the fact that when the maul is brought down the ball becomes unplayable so the game is restarted with a scrum to the team who were moving forward, but some of the free kicks we won against Aus, we weren’t moving forward…

Mickado wrote:I thought it might have something to do with the fact that when the maul is brought down the ball becomes unplayable so the game is restarted with a scrum to the team who were moving forward, but some of the free kicks we won against Aus, we weren’t moving forward…

Yes thats almost exactly it - except that moving forward thing is for rucks. For mauls it doesn't matter if it is forwards or backwards the team who brought it in lose possession (*except from a kick - ** exception to the exception is from a restart). Confused?

Munsty - what time would we need to be in Seapoint for? Mick how do I get to Seapoint?

If you take the ball into a maul and it either becomes unplayable at the ensuing ruck once it has gone to ground or it doesn't move forwards for 5 seconds, the defending team get a scrum.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:

red_stag wrote:Feic that Luckless here's my ideal scenario:

- Ireland losing by 4 points last minute, 5m out from Wales tryline

- O'Brien gets a metre or two and we get fast ball with an overlap outside us.

- O'Gara (who came on to rescue the game) passes to Wallace who has Keith Earls on his outside. He throws an intercept which is caught by James Hook who runs the lenght of field and scores. Welsh crowd goes wild and Bread of Heaven booms around the stadium.

- Referee wrongly judges Hook to be offside and disallows the try. He instead awards a Penalty Try to Ireland. Ireland win!!!

- Revenge is complete

You never know, Stag!

I can imaigine the uproar over here if that happened!. The Western mail demanding a replay, Crates of Guiness thrown into the sea at Fishguard ala' Boston tea party.

Plus we'd still have Irish fans calling for Declan Kidneys head I reckon (despite being in a World Cup semi final).

Munsty - very good description. Easy and concise.

Irish coffee being renamed freedom coffee...

Notch wrote:

luckless_pedestrian wrote:Only kidding, Stag. Defeat always hurts but when you throw injustice in as well it's no fun at all. We've all experienced it at some point.

Assuming we meet in the quarters, let's hope that, whatever the result, it won't have come down to anything like that.

Meh, in that game in Cardiff Ireland could have made it not matter if we hadn't played like idiots for 80 minutes! Even in the dying moments we first failed to execute an overlap in the 22 (although it was particularly well defended by Wales) and then knocked the ball on on the next phase. We just didn't play well and thats why we lost, despite the dubious nature of the Welsh try.

You're right, it was Paddy Wallace's fault.

MBTGOG wrote:Glas,

We got a very good reaction last night. No trouble at all.

O'Neills being destroyed by a drunken hoarde. Cari burning an effigy of Tommy Bowe (whose Ospreys contact will be shredded, burnt and the ashes fed to one of Glas a du's sheep)

Oh ok, now I get it. thanks gents.

Seapoint? That’s on the Dart line. Assuming you get in from Heuston, take the Luas up to Connolly and head south on the dart, it’s not far at all (5 / 10 mins past Lansdowne)

If I wanted to head there from DCU in Drumcondra, Mick?

Tarmac drives being ripped up all over the country.

"Der, that came up a lot easier than I thought!"

"What's wrong with you mun, its only 1/4 of an inch thick!"

Piebald and screwbald horse being made into pies...

oh, hang on!

"No I won't sell you my scrap!"

Stag, I'm not too familar with the area. But here's a cracking website for getting public transport info in Dublin:

http://hittheroad.ie/#from=DCU&to=Seapoint