The Dew Drop Inn Virtual Rugby Pub

First topic message reminder :

Welcome to the Virtual Rugby Pub - a place where you can come in for a sly beverage and discuss whatever's on your mind, or just eavesdrop on the regulars if you fancy a break from all the rugby chat.

The only rule in this pub is one of mutual respect for everyone in it, oh and no defacing picture of Micky T above the bar!


So pull up a chair....what'll it be?



Old Pub: https://www.606v2.com/t18110p1000-the-dew-drop-inn-virtual-rugby-pub#692779

luckless_pedestrian wrote:Munsty, that last example could just be parents who are miffed their kids don't get selected imagining he has it in for them, when actually they're just not very good.

Okay cheers. That is towards what I'm looking at.

Hughie,

I will say it but just give me your immediate reaction and I know you're the kind of guy not to shy from it.

Munsty/Stag - speaking of kids sport, what do you think of this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15774788

Munsty, Immediate reaction - there's no smoke without fire

A digression, we've seen the first coaching casualty of this year's European action: Jacques Delmas will be spending more time en famille

Cari wrote:Munsty/Stag - speaking of kids sport, what do you think of this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15774788

Don't like the idea of it as I'm not sure of the motives. "Physical literacy" is something we have been doing recently on my course but the idea that a Test is a way of finding future sports stars worries me more than a little.

Well I just wonder if it might have the opposite effect, and make PE more unpopular amongst some kids.

I'd say it would especially for kids who aren't good at PE. I didn't like it very much, (mainly I was rubbish at everything), but it wasn't the worst thing in the world. Being put through tests for it when you already know you aren't going to be very good is horrible I think.

Munsty I'm baffled what are you looking from me?

My immediate reaction is same as Asbos. No smoke without fire. People dont get fired for no reason.

As for that physical literary thing it really depends - is it for getting the best Olympians or improving health standards.

Cari,

I would certainly agree with that. It's tough enough getting a lot of kids involved already without there being the added pressure of Tests. And I really don't think tests are the right way to measure physical literacy.

That's what I mean Dreamer. It'll just put them off trying any sport at all because they'll be worrying about passing a test, rather than enjoying what they can. I wasn't an ahlete or anything, but I enjoyed netball and hockey cause I was quite good at them, and we weren't tested back then on those games lessons. They were just fun.

Well IF your talking about the example, odds are he probably did treat kids unfairly but they might be crap haha, and parents can be very protective and might just be over-reacting

Well exactly, I loved badminton and basketball in school, I was never good at it but it was a lot of fun. Would have been a nightmare if we were being tested for it though.

Cari wrote:That's what I mean Dreamer. It'll just put them off trying any sport at all because they'll be worrying about passing a test, rather than enjoying what they can. I wasn't an ahlete or anything, but I enjoyed netball and hockey cause I was quite good at them, and we weren't tested back then on those games lessons. They were just fun.

Yea I agree with that. It makes sense.

Right, next part, imagine you're trying to make it to the elite level of the sport you're in. At half time in a match, you're manager punches you in the face and knocks you to the ground for a mistake you made.

Or when you're in the youth team, he he hits you a smack in the back of the head with a cricket bat for not picking up the bibs and putting them away.

What do you do in those situations?

Report him/ press chargees

rugbydreamer wrote:Being put through tests for it when you already know you aren't going to be very good is horrible I think.

That's true, but it's true of every other school subject.

I've just a little thread on it to see what other sports fans think:
https://www.606v2.com/t18701-mandatory-pe-testing-in-uk-schools-good-or-bad-idea#703264

MBTGOG wrote:Right, next part, imagine you're trying to make it to the elite level of the sport you're in. At half time in a match, you're manager punches you in the face and knocks you to the ground for a mistake you made.

Or when you're in the youth team, he he hits you a smack in the back of the head with a cricket bat for not picking up the bibs and putting them away.

What do you do in those situations?

Press assault charges.

Though Im sure a lot of youths would keep quiet about this kind of thing.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:

rugbydreamer wrote:Being put through tests for it when you already know you aren't going to be very good is horrible I think.

That's true, but it's true of every other school subject.

ooo, I didn't think of it like that Lucky. Hmmm. I think perhaps though with other subjects there's greater room for improvement and help though as you always have more than 1 lesson a week. Having 1 PE lesson a week, is not really enough to help you improve at all in anyway.

Munsty - there was a time when teachers at school used to do stuff like that. I've seen a few kids get hit by teachers. It is criminal and shouldn't be allowed under any circumstances.

The difference is that you usually don't get tested on the academic subjects with an audiance watching but you will in PE.

I'm all for competitive sport but it breaks my heart sometimes to watch the very uncoordinated kids trying to compete on sports day.

You would never dream of asking the kids who struggle with reading to stand up in front of the whole school and parents and read aloud.

It can be really soul destroying for the non sporty kids.

MrsP - agree, and I think that takes the fun out of taking part and having a go. You might not be very good, but you can have fun trying if you're not under pressure to perform better than anyone.

Okay and how easy do you think it would be to report that in that situation considering this is probably your best chance at making it? Or that if you report it, the other players are probably so afraid of the manager, they would side with him?

Munsty - I'd still stand up to him. Violence is not acceptable, and you'd be doing the club/sport and your team mates a favour.

It depends what kind of tests are brought in, I suppose. Some people are naturally more athletic / have better co-ordination than others, just as some can do sums in their head just like that while others (like me) take ages to come up with the answer; but if it's done on an individual basis and the pupils are rewarded for individual improvement rather than compared with their classmates, then it could be a great thing.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:It depends what kind of tests are brought in, I suppose. Some people are naturally more athletic / have better co-ordination than others, just as some can do sums in their head just like that while others (like me) take ages to come up with the answer; but if it's done on an individual basis and the pupils are rewarded for individual improvement rather than compared with their classmates, then it could be a great thing.

+1

Cari wrote:Munsty - I'd still stand up to him. Violence is not acceptable, and you'd be doing the club/sport and your team mates a favour.

I agree Cari and I'm only looking for answers but I can tell you that it is seen as perfectly acceptable in sport all across the world even the ones that you think are a shining example. And violence isn't even the worst of it.

yeah, but it's not going to be set up like that now is it? That's far too sensible a suggestion you've come up with Lucky!

Munsty just come out with it would you?? You'll get your answer if you just tell us what's on your mind

Munsty,

This goes on in schools also. Teachers belittling young people who at that age haven't got the confidence to tell someone.

Not telling people is one big problem about bullys.

hughie1986 wrote:Munsty just come out with it would you?? You'll get your answer if you just tell us what's on your mind

I know I can't figure out if this is a specific or a general example.

Munsty are you looking for a certain reaction to this? Somebody to go against grain and suggest its ok maybe?

Munsty.

As a parent I would say that most would just not send their kid back if they thought they were not being picked, rather than complain.

The violence is a totally different situation. I suspect you are really wondering what a young teen themselves would do in that situation. They are a very vulnerable group and if other adults are not aware of what is happening they may well just keep schtoom!

I think it is a real problem in youth sports in USA.

Munsty - change doesn't come if people just put up with it. Even if it's horrendous to have to speak out about something, and go through the process, the eventual change will benefit more than just putting up with things as they are. It has to be done. Sometimes, it only takes one person to find the courage to do something about it, and then others will follow.

Probably not, Dreamer. But however the testing's done, I can't disagree with the principle. I don't see why PE should be the one subject where pupils can choose not to bother and more or less get away with it. I was rubbish at maths but I still had to try.

MrsP wrote:I think it is a real problem in youth sports in USA.

It is just the same over here.

Cari wrote:Munsty - change doesn't come if people just put up with it. Even if it's horrendous to have to speak out about something, and go through the process, the eventual change will benefit more than just putting up with things as they are. It has to be done. Sometimes, it only takes one person to find the courage to do something about it, and then others will follow.

I'm not arguining with any of that.

Lucky - but Maths is part of your basic learning. You needed to do some numeracy to get to a certain level of education. When I was in school, Games lessons were for kids to get some exercise. We weren't tested (unless you opted to put yourself forward for it) because it wasn't considered an essential part of your education, more physical welll being that you did it.

That's the thing though Lucky, we still had to try in PE at school. It was still a subject entered on the school report at the end of the year, if you wanted good grades you did have to try every week. I agree it might be a good idea to improve how PE is implemented at school, but the things I'm hearing about what these tests are going to be like, I don't see how they can be a good thing at all. Your suggestion is much better I think.

When our wee lad was about 9 he was playing in our annual Mini rugby Tournament.

I was just behind the try line taking photos and so was the closest adult around when a coach from a visiting team leaned down so his face was about an inch from the face of one of his own players and screamed at him for missing a tackle. The child was in tears. He was 9 years old!

If he had been my son I probably would have done something I might have regretted.

As it was, I wasn't sure what to do as none of the parents of this team's players batted an eyelid even though they must have seen what happened.

Over the course of the next few weeks I tried to find out about this guy and did tell our coaches what happened.

I know he is no longer coaching mini rugby. Trouble is I now stand on the same touchline as him week in week out.

MrsP. I call that a result not trouble.

He is stood on the sideline instead of standing in the dugout.

Rava wrote:

rugbydreamer wrote:Bore da pawb, hope everyone's well.


Sleeeepy today, stupid Mondays. They never agree with me!

I had the weirdest dream last night, that I got into a fight with Chris Ashton.

I won.

That doesn't surprise me. Did he just give up?

That little exchange has made my day!

MrsP - has his behaviour changed at all? Hopefully he's learned something positive. I'm not saying that coaches have to be all fluffy and nice - but what's the point of putting a child in tears? It's counter productive.

Rava wrote:

MrsP wrote:No!

Rev Ian's favorite song is "Come on Eileen" by Dexy's Midnight Runners.

Don't you mean the old music hall classic, "Goodnight Irene"?

red_stag wrote:Were you Manu Tuilagi in this dream?

Funny story apparently Keith Earls father had harsh words for him after his swan dive in the Wales v Ireland match

Good!

I think that's what the BBC article is about, Cari - people are saying that PE should be seen as an integral part of education, not just a bit of exercise once a week.

Totally agree Cari.

Actually, last year at the son's school tournament we all saw a coach from another school totally humiliate a child in front of all the parents. It was appalling.

We played the same team on Saturday and I didn't see any recurrance thank goodness.

Actually, Stag, one of the opposition coaches came up to MrP at the end to say he was worried about one our own players who had taken a knock to the head earlier. MrP hadn't seen it because he was dealing with one of the 2 players from the opposition who had broken fingers during the game. Good to see that he was willing to point out that he was worried that the guy had played on.

Turns out there didn't seem to be anything wrong with the lad, but it was good that he spoke up nontheless.

I'm surprised to hear all this. I played age level rugby for years as a teenager in teams who expected to do very well and experienced none of this.

MrsP good to see the head injury thing implemented. I had harsh words with a coach and player who tried to play on 2 weeks ago. He got smashed into the head and was going to go off until he realised he had no subs and then tried to play on.

Do you have any idea how or who that advice was circulated to?

It mentions that it is for players, parents, coaches and players but I just wonder who from that list will get to read it?

MrP did take the oportunity to reiterate to the lad why it is so important.

Cari wrote:Munsty - I'd still stand up to him. Violence is not acceptable, and you'd be doing the club/sport and your team mates a favour.

That's the equivalent of the casting couch. It takes a lot of guts to stand up to that sort of thing but somebody one day will have to. You can't say "oh well these things happen" or worse "sport is generally patriarchal". Nowadays though it is easier to report this sort of thing than ever. My fathers PT Master used to hit boys regularly. One boy got thrown over a gym horse. In the 80's he was involved in a doping scandal in the Welsh Commonwealth games weight lifting team.

MrsP wrote:Do you have any idea how or who that advice was circulated to?

It mentions that it is for players, parents, coaches and players but I just wonder who from that list will get to read it?

MrP did take the oportunity to reiterate to the lad why it is so important.

Couldn't tell you. I know all referees in my association were sent it by email and it was mentioned at our association meeting.

Another amusing story from Saturday's match was one of the oppo's parents.

He was giving out at pretty much every decision. Not in an abusive manner but loud enough for those around to hear. Thing was, despite being kitted out in some supporters gear he had no idea of the laws of the game.

It was quite comical hearing him shout,

"Yeah ref! Bout time you noticed that off-side!" when the ref blew and signalled for the knock on in open play we had all seen.

or

"Yeah! Hands Ref!" When one of our lads was jackling for the ball off an isolated oppo player!

Eventually one of the other oppo parents started to point out his mistakes and he shut up!