The Dew Drop Inn Virtual Rugby Pub

First topic message reminder :

Welcome to the Virtual Rugby Pub - a place where you can come in for a sly beverage and discuss whatever's on your mind, or just eavesdrop on the regulars if you fancy a break from all the rugby chat.

The only rule in this pub is one of mutual respect for everyone in it, oh and no defacing picture of Micky T above the bar!


So pull up a chair....what'll it be?



Old Pub: https://www.606v2.com/t18110p1000-the-dew-drop-inn-virtual-rugby-pub#692779

Cari wrote:Lucky - but Maths is part of your basic learning. You needed to do some numeracy to get to a certain level of education. When I was in school, Games lessons were for kids to get some exercise. We weren't tested (unless you opted to put yourself forward for it) because it wasn't considered an essential part of your education, more physical welll being that you did it.

The thing is Cari PE is part of your basic learning too. The purpose of PE is to develop physical awareness, balance, motor skills, team work, problem solving etc. Its not just about developing fitness and creating athletes but is a vital and underestimated aspect of a kids cognative development.

For example the ability to bounce a basketball subconciously and be aware of where the other players are is very similar to driving a vehicle.

The principals of funtioning in a sports team are essentially the same as funtioning in an office or workplace.

I probably learnt more skills on a rugby pitch that are useful for day to day life than I did in a classroom.

That can be really annoying, Mrs P. I remember once being at Dave Parade and a bloke behind me was giving his wife a running commentary on the game and the referee's decisions. Almost everything he told her was wrong.

I think there needs to be a balance of criticism and being a nice guy. If you don't train or work hard enough you need to be disciplined through sprinting or whatever. That should be there from around 10-11 years up. You need to instill a good work ethic in the kids for a young age if you want to have a good team/team ethic. You can't give a bollocking to a 10 year old for making a mistake though.


PE should be mandatory but it should be just about sport, it should be about nutrition and learnign to take after yourself and knowing about general health.

In Ghana I encountered this with a Ghanian coach. The kids were messing about. I had used the money I fundraised to get them over to UK to play a match and I trained them every day in preparariotn. The Ghaniana coach told the children they were evil, selfish, wicked and that God would see into their black souls and punish them.

I had severe words with him to say the least. There was a Welsh lass helping me out and she took the good cop approach. I let fly and put him firmly in his place.

See I'm not sure about all of that Prop.

I know loads of folks who are pretty useless at sport but are good drivers.

And, I'm not sure you can teach those skills to everyone no matter how much effort you put in.

I think school sport should be about getting every child active for life. Find an activity for each child that they can enjoy that improves their fitness.

Too often it's about coaching the sporty kids and letting the non sporty ones entertain themselves. The non sporty kids might not complain but it isn't doing them much good either. I think that can be acheived without testing/humiliation.

Although, the son's PE lessons for about 4 weeks involved testing every boy in the class.

They did the Beep Test, sit-ups, pull-ups, flexibility test and long arm hanging and stuff.

MrsP - that sounds like all the tests we had at school too, not sure what's so wrong with them.

The other thing is that things are different for boys and girls.

By the time they hit BIG school a lot of girls will see it as uncool to be sporty so will not try too hard even if they are quite sorty.

Glas a du wrote:

Rava wrote:

rugbydreamer wrote:Bore da pawb, hope everyone's well.


Sleeeepy today, stupid Mondays. They never agree with me!

I had the weirdest dream last night, that I got into a fight with Chris Ashton.

I won.

That doesn't surprise me. Did he just give up?

That little exchange has made my day!

Did he take a dive Dreamer? Was he wearing a tutu? I hope you laid into im.

Anyone else think just to save time if 79 minutes are on the clock and Munster are losing by less than 3 points we just award them the match?

Mrs P, I don't see why you're equating testing with humiliation. If you know you're going to be tested in an academic subject, you study for it so that you do as well as you can. The same should apply for PE testing: if you're going to be tested in PE, work on it outside school. Do the best you can. Even working hard, some won't be as good as others who are just naturally better. But that's just life.

I know what you mean Lucky. I am naturally a fairly unfit person I have to work very hard to be anyway good at sport.

By contrast I have always been able to get good grades fairly easily academically.

I distinctly remember being about 8 and being all upset when the School Sports Day was coming up as I was usually close to last and my Dad told me that there were some boys who felt like that every day doing their homework and sometimes you just have to accept your can't do something naturally and work hard at it if you want to be good at it.

Lucky what about those people who really try hard a sport but are just not good, no matter how much they practice, and they then have to humiliate themselves in front of the whole class during a test? It's horrible. It's just like having a math's test, but instead of pupils writing on paper, you are made to one by one, go to the front of the class and write it all on the board for everyone to see. That's horrible, and would never happen.

I was pretty sporty at school but one of my daughters does not have a sporty molecule in her body. It would not matter how much she tried to practise she will never be sporty.

Now, if it was maths she was poor at she would be able to have her tests marked in private with noone else knowing how she had done.

In PE everyone can see how slow or uncoordinated you are and it really doesn't help to shine a light on it.

I have seen her before school sports days.

Only day she didn't want to go to school.

How does that help anyone.

Now, all the rest of our kids love sport and can't wait to compete.

Just her experience has informed my opinion.

I understand that the public side of PE testing might be embarrassing to some pupils, but that's a poor argument for pupils not being tested at all, surely?

Thats easy to remedy. Have the results conducted privately.

Tested to what end though?

The sporty kids know they are sporty and the unsporty kids know they are not sporty and the teachers know too.

I'm not convinced testing helps that.

In fact, although our kids get PE mentioned on their report only my unsporty daughter gets given a grade in it! Sometimes it is farsical!

...even if they are quite sorty.

Is that Ulster dialect?

red_stag wrote:Anyone else think just to save time if 79 minutes are on the clock and Munster are losing by less than 3 points we just award them the match?

Ulster says Noi!

But surely unsporty kids just resigning themselves to being unsporty is defeatist? They should still be encouraged to improve and given the tools to do so. Otherwise you might as well say that pupils who aren't very good at geography or biology shouldn't have to bother with those subjects.

I know what you mean Lucky. I am naturally a fairly unfit person I have to work very hard to be anyway good at sport.

Didn't put much effort into rug...


...

No Glas!

That is called trying to post onhere whilst calling out 7 times tables and checking an English homework at the same time!

It's called multitasking but since you are a guy...

MrsP wrote:Tested to what end though?

The sporty kids know they are sporty and the unsporty kids know they are not sporty and the teachers know too.

I'm not convinced testing helps that.

In fact, although our kids get PE mentioned on their report only my unsporty daughter gets given a grade in it! Sometimes it is farsical!

I would imagine if PE is treated as a serious subject, it would/could/should take not just sporting or not sporty into account but exercise and health awareness in general.

In Ireland, PE is a completely untested subject - many people don't even work up a sweat. However it could also be theory based - i.e. what foods are good, how often should people exercise.

And I think measuring improvement should be the test. Find out what the child can do in September. If she/he has bettered herself and improved her health thats a plus.

In PE everyone can see how slow or uncoordinated you are and it really doesn't help to shine a light on it.

But they don't operate in a vacuum. They know from break times and playing out of school who is sporty and who is not.

Glas a du wrote:

I know what you mean Lucky. I am naturally a fairly unfit person I have to work very hard to be anyway good at sport.

Didn't put much effort into rug...


...

The best school report ever was when my geography teacher told my father at a parent teacher meeting that I was the most improved player on the team. I was so happy cos I really bust my gut that year in rugby. Its a mediocre achievement but it was a fairly proud of it at the time especially when I came on as a sub in a cup semi final and got a vital interception that led to us getting the win. I started the replay and we won. Was very happy with myself.

I never had to work that way for anything in school or university.

Why does she ned to try to be more sporty?

Certainly encourage her to be active but how would her practising trying to catch a ball be of any benefit to her?

If she studied hard she could improve her mark in Geography but I don't think any number of hours would improbe her sporting abilities.

Activity would make her fitter, but not more skillful.

Heard about this PE evaluation this a.m.;think it's a great idea,they should do it here.Mrs M can't get into certain collective gym classes cos of all the 15/16 year old girls who find it cool to pay to do sport
Just got to see the ASM game;shame Byrne can't hold passes, or there would have been another 3 tries;he was,however, SOLID under high ball.Yes Stag 8 tries,8 scorers,4 forwards,4 backs,Debaty MoTM

Stag!

Your school had a Geography team????

Ours did,MrsP,and I was captain;a sort of Inter school challenge,by subjects

Did you score extra points for elbow patches Mick()?

You need elbow-patches in France. What with all that shrugging indifferently...

Lee Byrne's always been solid under the high ball, Chef; the problem is what he does (or doesn't do) with the ball once he's caught it.

No geography teacher was our coach and a very good one too. Managed to find the balance between inclusion and bettering his players. From my team we have 2 at St Helens playing Rugby League, 1 is contracted to Munster and another 1 is in the Munster academy.

That's probably where the frozen shoulder came from Mick().

You are not genetically equipped for all that Gallic shrugging.

How is the shoulder by the way?

MrsP wrote:Why does she ned to try to be more sporty?

Certainly encourage her to be active but how would her practising trying to catch a ball be of any benefit to her?

If she studied hard she could improve her mark in Geography but I don't think any number of hours would improbe her sporting abilities.

Activity would make her fitter, but not more skillful.

Sorry to but in but I don't think that is true at all. I am pretty sure your daughter has as much potential to improve her ability in physical activities as any other subjects.

Unfortunately PE is often delivered poorly in schools and it puts off kids who don't take to it naturally but they are the kids who need it the most.

I was pretty rubbish at P.E. but have managed to have a really fulfilling sporting 'career' in a number of sports. I don't think there is a such thing as 'sporty' and 'not sporty'.

I think the key it to let your daughter try lots of different sports and activities until she finds one she enjoys. Once she finds her niche I'm pretty sure her confidence will grow and things will blossom from there.

MrsP

PE shouldnt be about being "sporty" it should be about being physically healthy and educated.

Catching a ball or hitting a bat is no use to your daughter, however everyone needs to learn about leading a healthy lifestyle.

Rodders,
I do believe that there are most definitely sporty and non-sporty types in this World. In the conventional sports played in schools that is. Sometimes, they dont meet with certain kids natural skills or abilities. I find that people who dont do athletics or play team games, tend to do things like Horse-riding, scuba-diving etc.

Also great individual sports.

I totally agree Rodders about trying lots of things and that is what we have done.

She skis really well and rides well but ask her to run or kick or throw a ball and she is lost.

That's what I meant about school PE lessons needing to try to find an activity that provides the necessary cardiovascular workout for healthy living. I just don't see how the kind of tests mentioned would help that at all.

Mrs P thats really good that she skies and rides. Every kid has their talents and even if they don't they can improve massively even if it means they have to work harder.

I think task focused activites would be best, i.e. those that don't emphaise winning and losing but in skill mastery. e.g. dancing or a martial art.

I took up rock climbing as a kid and it totally changed my life.

And skiing. Why do people/kids, have to pander to the majority's expectations of them? Peer-pressure starts in school. Diversity should be encouarged.

Don't get me wrong. I didn't say she wasn't talented, just that she gets no pleasure or buzz from organised sport.

I think school sports needs changing in lots of ways I just don't think the kind of testing mentioned will benefit many kids.

MrsP if the lessons are all ball/sports related than I agree with you.

MrsP, no change on the shoulder,waiting to start thawing it on 26 Dec.

Elbow patches?Thought they were for tennis players Have you been following Noah's outbursts on doping?since he's discovered ganja...

I actually hated rugby for the 1st few years. I was the smallest kid in the year and had rubbish ball skills. I used to dread P.E.!

I never thought 20 years later I'd be posting on a rugby forum!

I was bored by my first year of rugby - I hadnt a clue what was going on at all. I was 11 but by the time I was 13 I loved it.

Thats what I mean stag. You can't write kids off or just label them sporty or unsporty. Every kid has potential it's just about pointing them in the right direction.

Unfortunately there are a lot of poor teachers and coaches around.

The test on that link all were anyway Stag.

School sports is actually a big bug bear of mine.

I was a pretty good gymnast a long time ago. I was asked to join a local secondary school's gym club when I was still in about P5. I competed for them and trained with them every week. Won medals at NI champs and had a trial for the NI team.

Then aged 11 I went to the local Grammar school.

The PE teachers there had no interest in gymnastics. I was sporty so I played hockey for the A team. Trouble was after a couple of months they started to organise midweek friendly matches after school om the same day as my gymnastics training.

Every week they would put up the team list for us to tick off to say we could play and every week I had to go to the PE teacher and explain that I had gymnastics that day and so couldn't play.

Every week I got the same brow beating about the fact that I would rather represent another school at gymnastics than play hockey for my own school.

I adored gymnastics but I got fed up with the hassle I was getting and gave up to play hockey.

Always regretted it and I was a much better gymnast than hockey player.

Really don't want any of my kids to be bullied like that by some short sighted PE teacher.

Thats really unfortunate. Some schools are just more concerned with their own status than the development of pupils.

I would say it was more than some Rodders, even now.

Yeah I didn't want to sound too negative...

I agree with what you are saying but I don't think you can throw the baby out with the bath water.

School sport and P.E. is really important in pupil development and I don't think it's status in this part of the world is anywhere near enough.