Keith Earls and the number 13

First topic message reminder :

So Munster have named Keith Earls at outside centre against Treviso. This is now Earls' third match in a row where he has played 13 and looks set to continue this against Castres and Northampton. Given his past experience here for Munster, Ireland and Lions is he a certainty to play there against Wales?

We need a "You go, girl!" emoticon. I'm sure he'll be fine. I've been amused by this thread and am not always participating in it in the most serious mindset

Here are some highlights of how bad he is...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP18Fn2Qhv4

Nobody has even said Earls is bad.. also I have seen plenty of Leinster fans who think he is best in the back three. Even yourself, Thomond, seem to think he is best in the back three from what you are saying. Earls is a fantastic player, and trust me I rate him highly and want him to find his best position on the pitch.

Where I want to see him most is full-back, as I previously said our best back three has included Trimble, Bowe and Earls. That or wing.

Just found the thread and read most but not all the posts so might be repeating people.

The best 13 in Ireland this year has been Cave. Hes definitely the best of the bunch defensively, can spot a gap and gets the ball out to his 3/4s. I would love to see him playing outside McFadden in the 6 nations. However i don't believe he would be our long term 13 as Spence, O Malley, Griffin and Earls have more potential. He lacks pace but i think with the likes of O'Brien, Ferris, Heaslip and Bowe running support lines he could still be very effective.

On Earls I think he could make a very good 13 (hes not yet) with consistent selection and a decent foil at 12. For example if BOD was fit i think they could have a very good partnership. However with an ineffective Darcy playing he wont be given the best opportunity to shine. All his shortcomings can be worked out with the right coaching and game-time but i would still worry if its left to him to organise the defence.

This is what i would pick

10. Sexton
12. McFadden
13. Cave

22. Earls

Then Wallace partnering Spence and Griffin for the wolfhounds.

Yawn

DOD wrote:Yawn

Talking about this game DOD I presume. Feicin boring all right.

Too right

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Nobody has even said Earls is bad.. also I have seen plenty of Leinster fans who think he is best in the back three. Even yourself, Thomond, seem to think he is best in the back three from what you are saying. Earls is a fantastic player, and trust me I rate him highly and want him to find his best position on the pitch.

Where I want to see him most is full-back, as I previously said our best back three has included Trimble, Bowe and Earls. That or wing.

Have to say I would prefer Earls on the wing as opposed to fullback. I agree that he can offer alot more in attack than Kearney but I would still worry a little about him under the high ball.

I think if we want an attacking fullback then Felix Jones could well be the answer. He certainly seems to have attacking flair and if he is solid under the high ball too and in defence then I think he could be the man for the job rather than Earls. If I'm honest though I haven't seen enough of Jones to know how good he is under the high ball etc, I just know that he looks like a fullback with great attacking flair and I am quite excited about his prospects. For me though, Earls should be left on the wing.

Oh my earls just scored a lovely try...he is playing oc.. Shock!!!!

Horrible attempt at a tackle DOD but i was wondering whether you or Sin would be in first

Lovely step and score and a nice kick before it from him. He has had a good game thus far.

Moment of the match still belongs to Nigel Owens though

I knew his try (which was a fantastic try!) would be linked to him playing 13 in this game.. he is a fantastic try scorer/finisher that has nothing to do with whatever number is on his back. His poor passing however, is not good for a centre. He has thrown a few poor passes so far.

He also was running from deep, would love to see him play 15 and do a lot more of that

Nice footwork. I'm actually much more worried about 12 than 13.

Feic. ROG goes off having created nothing all night and on comes Keatley and Munster score a try. Where's Sin when you want the feicer

Yeah Keatley is great when the game is over....

Added to the lovely PASS for the score against connacht...

What was that DOD?

The lovely pass to set his winger away....didnt you see it....?

No..I was still worrying about his missed tackle against Tuilagi......

Must say Zebo and POM looked the biz again tonight.....

Earls played very well I'm now thinking he should be gettting a shot at centre. Zebo has a good game and POM was solid

After watching tonights games I thought McFadden was poor. He is definitely a 12 not a 13. Darcy looked ok. But what we need is a Jauzion type player....

I also thought McFadden was poor at 13, missed quite a few tackles. Earls did throw some bad passes, one beautiful pass at one point though. He was very good in attack, always dangerous. Wherever he plays he should start (but you all know where I think he should be starting).

Rava wrote:Feic. ROG goes off having created nothing all night and on comes Keatley and Munster score a try. Where's Sin when you want the feicer

Glad someone else noticed, ROG was very poor tonight, two good touch finders and the pass to Earls apart. Shocking descision making from him at times. Murray was pretty poor too.

Anyways back on topic...I'll eat my words a bit on Earls. I though he did ok tonight. He had a pretty poor 1st half but a good second one. He took his try well even though it was soft defending from Mcclean(?). He made 5 or 6 passes that I can recall of which 2 were poor and the rest were good and he put in two good kicks. I can recall one really good tackle on the kick chase but he wasn't really tested in defence. Overall a pretty decent showing from him.

I am still concerned about our 6N midfield. None of Earls, McFadden, D'arcy or Wallace are talkers or organisers. Cave is the only one who can perform that role in my view.

McFadden had a mixed bag tonight. I thought he struggled a bit and was dominated by Laulala. He seems to struggle physically at times against big players, particularly with his upperbody strength and his tackling technique is poor at times. He does look better at 12 though.

ROG I thought was shocking also, but I try to avoid bringing up a ROG-Sexton debate.. I think it was obvious that ROG was not good today though.

DOD wrote:Must say Zebo and POM looked the biz again tonight.....

I concur. Zebo looked really dangerous. Brilliant break in the 1st half from him.

POM was excellent. He really does look something special. I think he's already Irelands 4th best backrower and Ferris and O'Brien need to start looking over their shoulders.

Niall Ronan was excellent too before he went off and Coughlan was a deserving motm. POC was his usual imperious self.

Glad someone else noticed, ROG was very poor tonight, two good touch finders and the pass to Earls apart. Shocking descision making from him at times. Murray was pretty poor too.

er....Murray was excellent in the first half...you are a strange one rodders...ROG did ok...some of his kicking was sublime as usual...I think we will stick with him for the time being just in case.

Also Cave is a good player there is nothing in his play that convinces me he is of intl standard yet.

Hmm apart from one excellent kick to the corner I must have missed the rest of Rog's sublime kicks? A number of shocking passes and aimless kicks apart he was exposed physically in attack and defence.

I was a bit harsh on Murray. He had a mixed bag. His descision making wasn't great tonight but he looked classy at times. He'll be one of the best scrum halves in the world, and the best Irish 9 ever....but hes not the finished article just yet. He and POM are gems though.

Enjoy a hard fought and valuable 5 point win DOD

Murray mixed good and bad. Some superb breaks b e butchered a certain try. These things come with experience though.

POM I feel could be the understudy to Ferris potentially. Heaslip will probably outlast Ferris, and although I think POM could make a great 8, he will probably play 6 mostly for Munster, and eventually replace Ferris. Heaslip when he goes could make way for SOB at 8, and by then hopefully a 7 will appear maybe Faloon will continue to improve! I honestly think he compliments the type of game Leinster/Ireland should be playing.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:POM I feel could be the understudy to Ferris potentially. Heaslip will probably outlast Ferris, and although I think POM could make a great 8, he will probably play 6 mostly for Munster, and eventually replace Ferris. Heaslip when he goes could make way for SOB at 8, and by then hopefully a 7 will appear maybe Faloon will continue to improve! I honestly think he compliments the type of game Leinster/Ireland should be playing.

Keep hoping young Rory maybe some day your dreams will come true.

Rava, you don't seem to be a fan of Faloon I have gathered any reasons why?

There is already three quality traditional 7's in Irish rugby: Jennings, Ronan and Faloon. They all do what 7's do and do it very well. We just don't appreciate it because its not always eye catching.

Ronan was very good before his injury. Took his try very well. I think SOB is still adjusting to the role very well, and will continue to do so. If Ireland do not want to play a traditional 7, then he is the best we have.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Rava, you don't seem to be a fan of Faloon I have gathered any reasons why?

No Rory. I am a massive fan of Willie and a personal friend of him but don't think he is as good as you do. I think that the management of Ulster and Ireland do know a wee bit about the the players they have at their disposal. I will always be hoping for Faloon improvement.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Rava, you don't seem to be a fan of Faloon I have gathered any reasons why?

Oh and never give up the faith, I won't

Hmm fair enough Rava, I have been watching Faloon closely each game he has and I just think he is a very good player, and he is improving each game he gets (which is rarer than what it once was). Think he deserves more chances, and the chances he does get he takes, so I don't really get why he isn't selected more. I know Henry is playing very well, but to me he is best at 8 anyway.

With friends like you Rava who needs enemies ....I think Faloon is a cracking player....me and Rory should start a Faloon fan club ....might need to start a Niall Ronan one too as even the Munster fans don't rate him, I think hes been a stand out player for Munster any time I've seen them play this year.

We should protest outside Ravenhill, demanding a start for Faloon! Stand up for the Ulster traditional 7!

Ronan has been on fire recently for Munster. It will be interesting when Wallace returns to see how their backrow will look. POM, Wallace, Ronan, Coughlan and Leamy are the candidates. Not sure Leamy will get a look in tbh.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Hmm fair enough Rava, I have been watching Faloon closely each game he has and I just think he is a very good player, and he is improving each game he gets (which is rarer than what it once was). Think he deserves more chances, and the chances he does get he takes, so I don't really get why he isn't selected more. I know Henry is playing very well, but to me he is best at 8 anyway.

MATE!! You keep knocking on the door for Willie. He does appreciate it I can assure you.

Rodders you can feic off.
I love Willie and would love him to be playing more games. I just think Wannenberg and Henry have been excellent this season. Ferris you cant be replacing.

Rava wrote:
Rodders you can feic off.
I love Willie and would love him to be playing more games. I just think Wannenberg and Henry have been excellent this season. Ferris you cant be replacing.

No I think to be fair Henry has played too well to ignore and Ferris is......well Ferris. Pedre has been a good player for us but I think there is a case for rotating Willie in more. I think hes undervalued by a lot of Ulster fans on here and adds a lot of balance to our backrow and fluency in to our attack.

roddersm wrote:There is already three quality traditional 7's in Irish rugby: Jennings, Ronan and Faloon. They all do what 7's do and do it very well. We just don't appreciate it because its not always eye catching.

The only things Ronan does are eye catching. I'm honestly sick to my back teeth of this chat considering our backrow are delivering time and time again. Yes Faloon is unlucky but any other player missing out for him would be more so. Chris Henry has been doing very well at 7, and not just his carrying game he gets his hands dirty.

DOD wrote:in conclusion if Sin É puts up an arguement for Earls = Munster bias

Everyone else is clearly being objective and open minded even if a lot are talking about a decent player who doesnt look international class to the coaching staff not to mind some of us with red tinted glasses.

Just to note at this stage if Earls keeps scoring at the rate he is he will bypass or equal BODs try scoring record clearly he is rubbish.

Have you ever noticed how in any major debate on this site it usually ends up with you and Sin versus everybody else.On the law of averages don't you think maybe you 2 are more likely to be the unreasonable ones?

Another thing that was apparant tonight is the O'Callaghan is no longer in the top 4 locks in Ireland, maybe not in the top 5.

Notch wrote:

roddersm wrote:There is already three quality traditional 7's in Irish rugby: Jennings, Ronan and Faloon. They all do what 7's do and do it very well. We just don't appreciate it because its not always eye catching.

The only things Ronan does are eye catching. I'm honestly sick to my back teeth of this chat considering our backrow are delivering time and time again. Yes Faloon is unlucky but any other player missing out for him would be more so. Chris Henry has been doing very well at 7, and not just his carrying game he gets his hands dirty.

Well if you are so sick then ignore the conversation.

roddersm wrote:Another thing that was apparant tonight is the O'Callaghan is no longer in the top 4 locks in Ireland, maybe not in the top 5.

I am 100% in agreement with this comment.

I don't recall even having this conversation before. I'm very happy with our backrow but think Willie Faloon is a very good player....does that make me a bad person?...

I guess Notch won't be joining the Faloon club

Every discussion about Ulster is Faloon should play more. We've covered it lads.

Wrong topic lads but agree anyway.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

DOD wrote:in conclusion if Sin É puts up an arguement for Earls = Munster bias

Everyone else is clearly being objective and open minded even if a lot are talking about a decent player who doesnt look international class to the coaching staff not to mind some of us with red tinted glasses.

Just to note at this stage if Earls keeps scoring at the rate he is he will bypass or equal BODs try scoring record clearly he is rubbish.

Have you ever noticed how in any major debate on this site it usually ends up with you and Sin versus everybody else.On the law of averages don't you think maybe you 2 are more likely to be the unreasonable ones?

er....no

And the reason why is quite simple. In most cases the arguments put forward are full of hyperbole and opinionated (nothing wrong with that it is a forum after all). However everyone seems to get very annoyed at Sin E when he correctly counters these with facts and a bottomless array of statistics. As for me I am from Cork and therefore infallible...

Sin is just the boy who cries wolf. He'll argue a lost cause so much and so ridiculously that when he actually does have a valid point everybody is so surprised they block it from their mind.

He's right that Keith Earls can develop into a good 13 (my argument has always been he can be a better wing but he can make a good centre).

But then preceding that he'll say Contepomi was a poor outhalf, or Niall Ronan is worth a shout for our backrow or Dan Tuohy is too short for a lock. Not only that, but he won't let it go.

So that tends to dilute any good points he makes for some of the posters. Thats just my theory

haha. some mad rambling here the last few days. that 38pg article about munster not bringing players through made my eyes bleed.

good to see pom and zebo doing the business again. we have some serious talent playing rugby on these islands. murray is going to be a top player but can through in a shocking 15 mins here and there that could lose a game. only a kid so kind of understandable i guess

mc fadden is a 12 first winger centre for me. o malley is a better 13 than him. schmidt has doubts about mc fadden and omalley in big games against big centres it would appear.

when is squad named? just want it to start now see how we get on. france squad on paper is best comfortably.

on a side note il happily buy a justice for willie faloon t shirt rodders.

Looks like Cave had a cracker on Friday from the hilights. With a good showing from Earls and Spence and O'Malley in the pipeline I think the future is bright at 13.

Justice for Willie!....

The future is bright regarding centres. It will be as always about finding the right balance. I have said consistently that even though we don't have another BOD coming through there is no reason why the future centre pairings and back line for Ireland can't be more potent. Just requires a good game plan and a good combination.

Notch wrote:Sin is just the boy who cries wolf challenges posters on their opinions. He'll argue a lost cause so much and so ridiculously that when he actually does have a valid point everybody is so surprised they block it from their mind. Some posters get really peed off when he picks them up on little things like facts which have no place on a message board.

He's right that Keith Earls can develop into a good 13 (my argument has always been he can be a better wing but he can make a good centre). All he has claimed about Keith Earls is that he is the best option for the 6Ns because a) he is experienced, knows the team, calls etc. and there isn't much time to bed in a new 13. b) He also claims correctly that Keith Earls has far more experience at club level at 13 than he does at 11 and that he is a fine centre for Munster at HCup level which is the highest level that most of the other contenders have played at.
b) He also claims that Keith Earls isn't half as bad as is claimed here.

But then preceding that he'll say Contepomi was a poor outhalf, (remind, what position was he playing at that got him an international player of the year nomination), or Niall Ronan is worth a shout for our backrow, who, is playing very well for Leinster (better than Jennings for Leinster) or Dan Tuohy is too short [to be a top INTERNATIONAL] for a lock. Not only that, but he won't let it go - which is really annoying as everyone is meant to agree with everyone else on the internet.

So that tends to dilute any good points he makes for some of the posters. Thats just my theory

I've fixed that for you