The Dew Drop Inn Virtual Rugby Pub

First topic message reminder :

Welcome to the Virtual Rugby Pub - a place where you can come in for a sly beverage and discuss whatever's on your mind, or just eavesdrop on the regulars if you fancy a break from all the rugby chat.

The only rule in this pub is one of mutual respect for everyone in it, oh and no defacing the pictures of Sergio Parisse and Owen Farrell above the bar.





Last Pub:https://www.606v2.com/t23373-the-dew-drop-inn-virtual-rugby-pub

Brad Thorn is past it. Did you see him at the World Cup? They were carrying him.

I thought Boss was a Leinster foreigner now along with Strauss

Kevin McLaughlin captains Leinster

Ahead of Jennings and Ruddock? I would also have had Nacewa and Reddan ahead of him.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:

MrsP wrote:Will it disadvantage the Dragons more than the Blues?

It'll be annoying for both sets of fans, but my main complaint is that we'll probably have a smaller crowd due to it being on a Thursday. It was a Friday night game originally and the clubhouse was packed beforehand. It won't be packed on the 15th, I'm sure.

It shouldn’t that disappointing for the Blues fans lucky. Cardiff is practically a suburb of Newport




Afternoon all. Munching my way through a spicy spag bol. Yumser!!

red_stag wrote:Well yes Rava. Leinster are less reliant on foreign players so logically a player like Thorn coming in to cover injury isn't seen as a problem.

There is a perception that Ulster have been overly reliant on the foreigners and many of the Irish guys they have are only "Irish" as their parents or grandparents are Irish - see Adam Darcy, Tom Court, Isaac Boss, Dan Tuohy etc. Then when you have Afoa, Muller, Wannenburg, Payne, Terblanche, Pienaar, Danielli, Diack etc on the books it just furthers this perception that they aren't developing players (which I know isn't true).

Maybe its unfair but there is a definite perception; not just amongst Irish fans; that Ulster are extremely reliant on foreign signings.

Are Ulster an Irish club?

red_stag wrote:Kevin McLaughlin captains Leinster

Ahead of Jennings and Ruddock? I would also have had Nacewa and Reddan ahead of him.

The logic being that McLaughlin will probably play every game while the 6nations are on, Jennings will make way for Ryan to come back in and Ruddock won’t start every game (Auva’a will probably start one or two), Reddan won’t even be available and Nacewa is a great leader but never captained the side and will be playing at fullback, which isn’t ideal for a captain.

Rava wrote:Interesting that Ulster were lambasted for signing Terblanche on a short term contract as cover for the injured Payne while the Thorn signing is being seen as "Epic"

Well for starters I never lambasted Ulster, and I’m the only one who said “epic”.

Asbop!!!



Hound!

Pssssst!

You're not allowed to say the C word on here!

Hound_of_Harrow wrote:It shouldn’t that disappointing for the Blues fans lucky. Cardiff is practically a suburb of Newport

Afternoon, Hound. I'm not too offended by that. If you'd said Newport was practically a suburb of Cardiff, then I'd be offended!

A limited edition Dubs Jersey. Don't look directly at it, it's hideous!

http://www.oneills.com/productdetails/3920/dublin-gaa-green-jersey.aspx

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

red_stag wrote:Well yes Rava. Leinster are less reliant on foreign players so logically a player like Thorn coming in to cover injury isn't seen as a problem.

There is a perception that Ulster have been overly reliant on the foreigners and many of the Irish guys they have are only "Irish" as their parents or grandparents are Irish - see Adam Darcy, Tom Court, Isaac Boss, Dan Tuohy etc. Then when you have Afoa, Muller, Wannenburg, Payne, Terblanche, Pienaar, Danielli, Diack etc on the books it just furthers this perception that they aren't developing players (which I know isn't true).

Maybe its unfair but there is a definite perception; not just amongst Irish fans; that Ulster are extremely reliant on foreign signings.

Are Ulster an Irish club?

But then, for example, Rhys Ruddock (one Irish parent) isn't viewed the same way as Dan Tuohy (who has two Irish parents). And Kyriacou (one Irish parent) is viewed as a foreigner altogether. And bleedin' stop mention Payne and Terblanche at the same time. They will never play in the same Ulster team.

I thought they played in pale blue Bikkies?

Did Addidas make it?

Sure it's only for one match, or to try to make a whole lot of money depending on how cynical you're feeling.

I don’t think the team will ever play in it MrsP – I think it’s just a supporters jersey.

Colours are a massive thing in the GAA, very rare to see a team play in anything other than their “home jersey”. There are a few exceptions of course, but it’s rare.

Our normal jersey is that exact design but it’s in sky blue. And no, Addidas don’t make it, the 3 stripes are only copyrighted if they’re on shoes apparently. So anyone could put them on a jersey.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:

Hound_of_Harrow wrote:It shouldn’t that disappointing for the Blues fans lucky. Cardiff is practically a suburb of Newport

Afternoon, Hound. I'm not too offended by that. If you'd said Newport was practically a suburb of Cardiff, then I'd be offended!

Didn't think you would be lucky

MrsP - I'll have you know that I used both the C and the B word in their proper (Penfro) pedantic context.

Mickado wrote:A limited edition Dubs Jersey. Don't look directly at it, it's hideous!

http://www.oneills.com/productdetails/3920/dublin-gaa-green-jersey.aspx

All that needs are a few gold stripes.

Rhys Ruddock was born in Ireland



Afternoon all, spent all day thinking it was Wednesday got a nice surprise about an hour ago when I found it was thursday, sound

So what Hughie?

So was the Duke of Wellington, but he wasn't a horse.

Glas a du wrote:

Mickado wrote:A limited edition Dubs Jersey. Don't look directly at it, it's hideous!

http://www.oneills.com/productdetails/3920/dublin-gaa-green-jersey.aspx

All that needs are a few gold stripes.

Not going to work this time Glas!

Did you go to Croke park in the end? What did you think of it?

Yes, amazing experience. Would recommend it to any tourist in Dublin.

Just giving you the reason why he is viewed as he is, nothing to do with the anti Ulster bias that everyone of us clearly have.

Ah fair play. I thought so too, but I know I’m biased. Glad you enjoyed it.

Glas you should have been there for a match like when Wales won in 2008 there.

hughie1986 wrote:Just giving you the reason why he is viewed as he is, nothing to do with the anti Ulster bias that everyone of us clearly have.

You said that, not me. I think it's kind of silly and parochial that a guy who moved to Wales at a very young age is viewed as more Irish than the guy who was born overseas but has similar ancestry. After all, we don't view Heaslip as an Israeli or ROG as American.

Bonjourno

Alright all, what's the craic? Anything new in the rugby world? Any scandal in any of your worlds?

Not really Munsty.

I am just saying that rightly or wrongly there is a widespread perception that Ulster are very reliant on foreign signings.

I know, but it's strange. It's very strange.

Then again it's not that strange. It's no secret that Ulster have struggled to attract players from the other three provinces. Naturally we need to look further afield for Irish qualified players.

Generally these lads have been identified by the IRFU before Ulster move for them. For instance, Callum Black and Dan Tuohy played for Ireland U20s. Munster identified Kyriacou as an IQ hooker when they signed him on loan prior to his move to Ulster. And so on.

It's very important for me to see guys from Ulster coming through the Schools and Academy. I wouldn't be too happy if we had less than half homegrown players. As it stands we've around 22 out of 36 players who have come through the Ulster system.

What one of the Welsh regs (who will remain nameless) said to me is that the best Ulster players aren't home developed.

So if you look at your best team

Court (Oz),
Best (Ulster)
Afoa (NZ)
Muller (SA)
Tuohy (Eng)
Ferris (Ulster)
Henry (Ulster)
Wannenburg (SA)
Pienaar (SA)
Humphreys (Ulster)
Danielli (Scotland)
Wallace (Ulster)
Cave (Ulster)
Trimble (Ulster)
Terblanche (SA)

More than half the team not coming through the system. This particular Welsh regs point was that while Munster/Leinster have foreigners they seem to be less reliant on them than Ulster are.

If Munster, Leinster and Ulster lost all their foreign players by far the worst hit would be Ulster.

Yeah thats probably true. I don't really see the problem though?

And why have you put Tuohy in as English? And why have you put Danielli in?

And why have you put Court in as Australian?

You're right though, our Captain is a foreign player. Our key tighthead and halfback are foreign players. It's a fair comment.

I think Stag is highlighting where they have been developed as players.

I think it is something Ulster had to do 4-5 years ago when they started the rebuild but I don't think this will be the case in 4-5 years time when the incredibly productive Ulster academy will change this so that it will be a more indigenous based squad.

Well clearly you have a totally different definition of "Irish" than the IRB.

Your definition of "foreign" is "didn't come through our academy".

Why is that so important?

Surely it's much more important who our academy will produce than who they have produced?

Living in the past eh?

MrsP wrote:Well clearly you have a totally different definition of "Irish" than the IRB.
Your definition is "didn't come through our academy".

Why is that so important?

Surely it's much more important who our academy will produce than who they have produced?

Living in the past eh?

I certainly would!

Thing is, for other provinces you count,

Born in Ireland,

Irish born Parent,

Came through any Irish academy,

all as "one of ours" but for Ulster the players have to have all of those before you will recognise them as Ulstermen.

And, whilst I agree that a lot more of our First XV did not come through the academy, all that means is that the NIQs we have recruited are of a higher standard than the other provinces.

Why is it better to recruit not very good overseas players? Surely you should be lambasting the other provinces for filling their squad with non Irish journeymen?

I'm not debating that. I think Ulster have done a good thing signing Irish qualified players and developing them to the level that they can represent Ireland.

What I argued with is how the iRB decide qualification for nationality but that topic is well overdone.

I am not lambasting anyone or saying Ulster are doing anything wrong or bad.

I am JUST pointing out why there is a perception of Ulsters foreign legion.

Ulster are simply a few years behind Munster/Leinster IMO. In few years Ulster will have Annett, Gilroy, Luke Marshall, McAllister, P.Marshall etc breaking into the first team alongside the current lads already there.

Munsty sums it up above.

But why would there be a perception of Ulster being a foreign legion if it were not being talked about as a negative?

That's the bit that hurts. It's always mentioned as a negative.

MBTGOG wrote:I think Stag is highlighting where they have been developed as players.

I think it is something Ulster had to do 4-5 years ago when they started the rebuild but I don't think this will be the case in 4-5 years time when the incredibly productive Ulster academy will change this so that it will be a more indigenous based squad.

To be fair, Court was a very late strater. I'd say he's twice the player he was when he came over to Ireland. But you're quite right.

I don't know if Paul Marshall has what it takes to be first choice for Ulster. We'll see.

Lots of do people consider it negative. They look at the here and now and don't consider long term benefits.

Munster used to be criticised when we had Mafi, Howlett, Tipoki and Payne all starting in the backs.

I think Ulster have done a good thing signing Irish qualified players and developing them to the level that they can represent Ireland.

To be fair I did say this Notch.

Yeah, Munster get a lot of stick for their front row now too. If Botha can have as positive an influence on Archer as he had on some of the Ulster props it'll be decent business for Ireland too.

Yea exactly Notch. Think of Munsters front rows as a mircocosm of Ulster rugby and you can understand the reaction.

Disappointment that it isn't entirely IQ without fully understanding why it has to be that way.

red_stag wrote:Glas you should have been there for a match like when Wales won in 2008 there.

I know that now!

Good evening.

There's no one around, so I'll just help myself

I'm around Cari, I'll join you

Just remembered I need to do my SG picks. Thursday's come round awful quick!

Y'alright Cari.

De usual Irish bunfight has scared everyone off

Back to the domestic rugby for the weekend, but did you decide to go to the game at CAP?

Jif are playing Man U.

Ah all right Swanny and

I probably won't go to CAP Harrow. I've been doing overtime at work this week and I'm bhuggered.

Swanny - how's the new job going by the way?