The Dew Drop Inn Virtual Rugby Pub, Georgia

First topic message reminder :

Welcome to the Virtual Rugby Pub - a place where you can come in for a sly beverage and discuss whatever's on your mind, or just eavesdrop on the regulars if you fancy a break from all the rugby chat. The pub has ventured to Georgia, because rugbydreamer wants the Scarlets to find a nice forward out there.

The only rule in this pub is one of mutual respect for everyone in it, oh and no defacing the pictures of birthday boy Hughie, Chris Budgen, Leo Cullen, Brian O'Driscoll, Paddy Wallace, Tomas O'Leary and a red faced Ronan O'Gara on the wall.




Old Pub:https://www.606v2.com/t26870p1000-the-dew-drop-inn-virtual-rugby-shebeen-queen-at-ellis-park-johannesburg#1115697

Quins not doing so great tonight so far against Toulon.

Asbo - I think Italy are going to put forward a new team based somewhere else for next season.

Munster As beat the Leinster As in the RDS. It was a very strong Leinster side, guys like Carr,Baby Chilli, Rhys Ruddock, Dom Ryan and Conway playing.

Go on Munster!

Thats a fair result that, Thomond. So, will the Aironi players transfer to the new outfit, dreamer?

It is AS, beating both Ulster and Leinster who were both highly fancied to beat Munster. Now into the final of the B&I Cup. We always seem to beat teams even if we are told the players aren't that great! Both wins away from home too.

Aironi folding is a biggy. How on earth can we defend our position against the English and French morally (leaving aside dog in the manger attitudes) when a scratch Italian side who may only last a couple of years walks straight in to the Heineken Cup?

To be fair, the new Italian side is likely to be much better placed. Viadana is really a tiny place. Now we can have a team in Rome or Milan.

Notch a guide to Limerick that you may want to give you parents or friends.

http://redstagrugby.blogspot.com/2012/04/guide-to-limerick-erc-quarter-finals.html

Quins got towelled in Toulon.

Down to my lot in the Amlin tomorrow to keep an English interest in it.

Wade is back
:;yahoo:

He destroyed Bordeaux in the first round.

Notch wrote:To be fair, the new Italian side is likely to be much better placed. Viadana is really a tiny place. Now we can have a team in Rome or Milan.

Where they don't play rugby (Rome anyway). If they have all of Aironi's players it will be like a builder going bust and starting off under a slightly different name because the house is in his wife's name.

Glas a du wrote:Aironi folding is a biggy. How on earth can we defend our position against the English and French morally (leaving aside dog in the manger attitudes) when a scratch Italian side who may only last a couple of years walks straight in to the Heineken Cup?

Glas, Tis a fair point, one that should be dealt with directly and not ignored - new Welsh or Scots team?

Go Wasps. I want them in the Final!!

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Glas a du wrote:Aironi folding is a biggy. How on earth can we defend our position against the English and French morally (leaving aside dog in the manger attitudes) when a scratch Italian side who may only last a couple of years walks straight in to the Heineken Cup?

Glas, Tis a fair point, one that should be dealt with directly and not ignored - new Welsh or Scots team?

Can either sustain another professional club?

Doesn't matter if they don't play rugby if they come to watch it from a financial point of view. Would surely stand to reason you'll get many more spectators (even for a minority sport) in a massive city as opposed to a tiny town in an extremely rural setting?

Rava wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Glas a du wrote:Aironi folding is a biggy. How on earth can we defend our position against the English and French morally (leaving aside dog in the manger attitudes) when a scratch Italian side who may only last a couple of years walks straight in to the Heineken Cup?

Glas, Tis a fair point, one that should be dealt with directly and not ignored - new Welsh or Scots team?

Can either sustain another professional club?

No, neither can, a couple of years too early

Ideally there would be some sort of a starter league where a new team could cut their teeth.

red_stag wrote:Notch a guide to Limerick that you may want to give you parents or friends.

http://redstagrugby.blogspot.com/2012/04/guide-to-limerick-erc-quarter-finals.html

My mum has a Church for Sunday picked out and everything. I will be pulling my usual heathen act. Can you text me your number? I will call you tomorrow when I arrive and we'll go and watch the rugby.

Notch wrote:Doesn't matter if they don't play rugby if they come to watch it from a financial point of view. Would surely stand to reason you'll get many more spectators (even for a minority sport) in a massive city as opposed to a tiny town in an extremely rural setting?

You may be right, but what if you are not? Wales can't afford another region, I doubt Scotland could. In fact Wales may be down to two regions if the KPMG report on the Scarlets and Dragons is followed (yes I know it's Cardiff in the Poopie, but there we are)

Rava wrote:Go Wasps. I want them in the Final!!

Me too, now

Stag's guide is good but the Rubberbandits guide is better : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYgZFm43ZN4&ob=av3e

I'd say continue down the Italian route. They have an untapped market, Scotland and Wales are just about tapped out on the other hand.

Notch wrote:Doesn't matter if they don't play rugby if they come to watch it from a financial point of view. Would surely stand to reason you'll get many more spectators (even for a minority sport) in a massive city as opposed to a tiny town in an extremely rural setting?

It does really, when it comes to the Heino - it is a complete urine-take to transfer the slot like this imo

I wasn't really thinking of the HC Asbo, more the Pro 12. But I'd rather that than an extra French or English team. It's a European competition after all and everyone else is already well represented.

Mind you, the new team will probably be urine weak

In the interim I'd give the place to the better placed of Connacht and Dragons

You've got a point about next season, I definitely have some sympathy for the argument Rava makes, but not letting the new team into the HC will hardly help them get off to the start they need in terms of attracting sponsors and fans. I think they need it, and the FIR would rightly be up in arms about losing one if their places.

Long term I want to see the new Italian side be successful so would like to see them in the Heineken Cup.

Rava wrote:In the interim I'd give the place to the better placed of Connacht and Dragons

More ammunition to the Portnoys, Rav

I think the ballsy thing to do is tell the Italians they can have a second team in the Pro 12 on condition the HC qualification of that side is not guaranteed. They would have to scrap it out with the fourth Welsh and Irish sides for that last qualification spot, either by league placing or a play off (bottom two in a semi final to play the higher placed side in a winner takes all). If e.g. Ulster should win the HC and the Scarlets the Amlin, the spot would be theirs of course.

Notch, that argument is fine, but they will be in the Amlin. Respected sides from France and England play in it as well as Connacht and the Dragons. Over facing is not going to chuff the sponsors either.

Notch wrote:You've got a point about next season, I definitely have some sympathy for the argument Rava makes, but not letting the new team into the HC will hardly help them get off to the start they need in terms of attracting sponsors and fans. I think they need it, and the FIR would rightly be up in arms about losing one if their places.

Long term I want to see the new Italian side be successful so would like to see them in the Heineken Cup.

notch, I think the FIR should suck it up - they made mistakes, they should deal with the consequences

Typical. I back world no. 1 Luke Donald and he looks in danger of missing the cut.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Notch wrote:You've got a point about next season, I definitely have some sympathy for the argument Rava makes, but not letting the new team into the HC will hardly help them get off to the start they need in terms of attracting sponsors and fans. I think they need it, and the FIR would rightly be up in arms about losing one if their places.

Long term I want to see the new Italian side be successful so would like to see them in the Heineken Cup.

notch, I think the FIR should suck it up - they made mistakes, they should deal with the consequences

Yes, the game has also moved one. It really is simple:

1 Heineken Cup - elite
2 Amlin cup - development

The chance to get in on a level playing field will be enough. It's better for us to negotiate this on our terms than actually see the English and French throw their toys out of the pram and start from a much weaker position.

Glas, we should deal with it on our own terms, absolutely, but imagining things can continue as they have is simply naive

Yes. It's almost perfect. It just needs tinkering with. Tearing it up and starting again will lead to a messy compromise.

Backed Tiger in January Willy, his play was improving. He is +1 but I had Jason Day too and he withdrew!

The way I see it we (the various unions) have a choice.

1. Let the FIR to put another team into the Heineken Cup as they see fit.

2. Take it out of the unions hands and have it completely based on the Pro 12.

They are very different. There is no half way house that I can see being realistic.

Colin Montgomery is such a tw@t!!

I don't want to see ANY qualification based on league positions because it's just too different. Stephen Ferris has played 4 Pro 12 games this season, I can see that becoming par for the course for internationals soon with the international calendar expanding. Maybe a bit more, but still; Pro 12 just isn't a barometer for how a team will perform in Europe.

When you are fielding two different sides in two competitions, why should one affect the other? There's our Pro 12 side and our Heineken Cup side, same for Munster and Leinster. You've got the real competition and the league which is used for player development. I think introducing elements like relegation and european qualification into the Pro12 is a bad idea in the long run.

Rava wrote:Colin Montgomery is such a tw@t!!

He was as nice as pie when he was in Afghanistan. Even went out of his way to let my lads and I have a picture with him. Top bloke in my eyes.

Notch wrote:You've got the real competition and the league which is used for player development.

I remember not so long ago you criticising me for saying this type of thing Notch.

red_stag wrote:

Notch wrote:You've got the real competition and the league which is used for player development.

I remember not so long ago you criticising me for saying this type of thing Notch.

True, and I would criticise myself tonight for saying it; if the provinces had a choice in the matter. I wish they did but they don't and it wouldn't be realistic to see the players flogged anyway. Guys like O'Connell, O'Driscoll, Ferris, Bowe etc. aren't available for a lot of league games. So of course the emphasis shifts to guys who wouldn't be in the Heineken Cup starting XV. We've seen that happen.

It's not what I want, it's the way it is and I can't change it. Might as well recognise it.

Risca Rev wrote:

Rava wrote:Colin Montgomery is such a tw@t!!

He was as nice as pie when he was in Afghanistan. Even went out of his way to let my lads and I have a picture with him. Top bloke in my eyes.

Fair enough Rev. No saying he isn't a nice bloke. Poopie commentator and some of the things he comes out with make him what I said

red_stag wrote:The way I see it we (the various unions) have a choice.

1. Let the FIR to put another team into the Heineken Cup as they see fit.

2. Take it out of the unions hands and have it completely based on the Pro 12.

They are very different. There is no half way house that I can see being realistic.

Option 1 is not an option. No other Union could say "right we are inviting tenders for a new franchise team to play in the Pro 12 and HC, we'll sort something out by September don't worry"

This is the top club competition in the World potentially, in a professional sport. FIR have just kissed goodbye to Life 9.

Let's see what the FIR propose as the replacement for Aironi. The only thing is that there are no real viable alternatives imo.

A franchise based in Rome would be good, but I don't think they would get the support. The FIR could look at basing a team in (or near) Venice though. There's quite a few clubs within an hours journey of Venice.

And thanks for the good wishes for Wasps tomorrow folks.

Notch wrote:I don't want to see ANY qualification based on league positions because it's just too different. Stephen Ferris has played 4 Pro 12 games this season, I can see that becoming par for the course for internationals soon with the international calendar expanding. Maybe a bit more, but still; Pro 12 just isn't a barometer for how a team will perform in Europe.

When you are fielding two different sides in two competitions, why should one affect the other? There's our Pro 12 side and our Heineken Cup side, same for Munster and Leinster. You've got the real competition and the league which is used for player development. I think introducing elements like relegation and european qualification into the Pro12 is a bad idea in the long run.

Yeah, the tail is wagging the dog there Notch. The English and French are manoeuvering on this. Argue for whatever you want the status quo at your peril

I would agree with Rav on Monty as an analyst comes across as a bit of a smug langer.

But the Pro12 is the best league in the world isn't it? Their teams performances in Europe prove it don't they?

And now you're saying teams have a Heino side and a Pro12 side and they are different, and that's ok as they don't have to qualify for the Heino, it's a given.

Level playing field in the Heino my orse!!!

Ozzy my advice to you is stop crying about it and change your beloved English system.

Why should we have to change what we do?

The RFU is entitled to 6 teams. How they pick them is up to them. Same as we are entitled to 3 teams.

BTW sorry if thats a bit of a rant.

I simply cant stomach the continious string of English coaches and fans who claim it is "unfair".

We changed from clubs to regions and are reaping the rewards.

You can easily introduce ring fencing and regionalism if you want to. But it doesn't suit you to. There are pros and cons to every system.

Stag, that's norty. He's making a perfectly valid point. When England argue exactly what Notch said they ate stonewalled. We need to get out of our ivory towers now.

Except it is suggested that you or the Welsh should get all your teams qualified by right in place of the Italians who clearly can't sustain a side in the Pro12.

And I am not crying about it, merely making a point about some of the bollix spouted on this forum.

Personally I think the system of how places is awarded is flawed across the board because the leagues and teams in them that they are awarded to are not of a similar nature, so the competition will always be lopsided, and that has feck all to do with being English or defending the English league system.

Glas is right Notch. Admitting that some of (or all of) the Pro12 clubs can effectively field different a team for league games without fear of relegation strengthens the stance that the French and English league representatives are taking over qualification for the HC.

Qualification based on final positions in each of the 3 leagues is what is proposed. Yup, maybe the English and French leagues should block relegation/promotion for (arguments sake) three years and then consider things.

That still doesn't make it any easier for those in the AP and T14 to qualify.