Day 15 - Men's Singles Final

First topic message reminder :

Nadal v Djokovic.

Here is the thread for the final, can't believe I might miss it due to cricket!

I say Nole for the win in 5 sets, IT'S HIS GODDAMN DESTINY

Your being a Dipsy. But hey.

Oh you pair stop it. You are sending me la la.

luciusmann wrote:... I haven't checked back through your posts but I'd be curious to know if you picked a winner and in how many sets...? ...

Before the tournament I am on record that Nadal will beat Djokovic in the final. Before the actual final I thought there was a possibility that Djokovic could win in five sets based on his ability to win through long matches (Seppi and Tsonga), the fact that he saw off Federer in three sets - and all this while only playing as Djokovic Mk 1.5. Similarly Nadal has yet to be really tested. However, he needs a long match to get started. The one or two sets they have to play tomorrow may not be sufficient for Djokovic to switch to Djokovic Mk II mode - a mode that he switched into during sets three and four of the current match. However, they have to start over tomorrow again with Nadal now prepared, only needing one set, and in more favourable court conditions.

Nole will win.

The match is on his racket.

Olly wrote:Why didn't the organisers just start the game 2 hours earlier knowing the bad weather was coming?
Shocking. Just crap

I don't think they are the only organisers who have made this Faux Pas. US Open springs to mind.

luciusmann wrote:

Leff wrote:

luciusmann wrote:
Nadal wanted to get off court because winning 1 game in the last 9 was threatening his chances of staying in contention of the 4th set.

Nadal was seen and heard protesting referee's decision to stop the match. He said the conditions were no different than for the past hour, why stop now.

I'm confused, the commentators on ITV said it was Nadal who wanted to stop because of the rain. So Nadal wanted to continue? Are you sure he wasn't being sarcastic?

Nadal was saying why is it too bad to play now given it was ok an hour ago? What he meant was that it was not good enough to have resumed.

French have to have time to have 6 course lunch followed by bottles of wine, cigarettes and coffee and cognac. You try getting all that in by 12 oclock.

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Olly wrote:Why didn't the organisers just start the game 2 hours earlier knowing the bad weather was coming?
Shocking. Just crap

I don't think they are the only organisers who have made this Faux Pas. US Open springs to mind.

Television, advertisors and sponsors. There needs to be sufficient time and they need to agree to it. Without their money there wouldn't be the modern game of tennis we have today.

In addition the people that bought their tickets would have based their travel on particular minimum start times. If they had started the match two hours earlier, there would be many ticketholders sueing for the travelling and accommodation expenses if they missed the final because of it. Also the weather cannot be predicted "100%". Perhaps in future they need to build in greater flexibility within the planning.

luciusmann wrote:

Leff wrote:

luciusmann wrote:
Nadal wanted to get off court because winning 1 game in the last 9 was threatening his chances of staying in contention of the 4th set.

Nadal was seen and heard protesting referee's decision to stop the match. He said the conditions were no different than for the past hour, why stop now.

I'm confused, the commentators on ITV said it was Nadal who wanted to stop because of the rain. So Nadal wanted to continue? Are you sure he wasn't being sarcastic?

That's absolutely correct, luciusmann. Nadal argued with the referee in English. He even the word 'livid' that brought smiles on the NBC commentators that his English improved considerably. It was not a conversation between the two. It was one-sided. It was Nadal protesting why stop the game now when the conditions were the same for the past hour and they kept playing. I do not know which telecast feed you have. Here is the US, the cameras were on Nadal's face and he could be heard very well arguing in English. He sounded as though he was upset that they didn't stop the game when he was losing 8 games in a row, but when he finally won a game, they decided to stop.

The weather conditions were the same for both players. I prefer Novak but respect nadal. However who is he to say they cannot play on! Really annoyed me that just because he was being destroyed he feels that they have to stop. Didn't see Novak complaining about the rain when 2 sets down.

Bad form from nadal, conditions were the same for both of them. Really hope Novak continues his form tomorrow and takes the title

slashermcguirk wrote:The weather conditions were the same for both players. I prefer Novak but respect nadal. However who is he to say they cannot play on! Really annoyed me that just because he was being destroyed he feels that they have to stop. Didn't see Novak complaining about the rain when 2 sets down.

Bad form from nadal, conditions were the same for both of them. Really hope Novak continues his form tomorrow and takes the title

Yes I didn't want to be the first one to say it but the conditions are wet for both of them. Are you telling me that after a decade on tour Nadal hasn't played on half wet clay before in the european spring. Novak played when he was getting his asssss kick and he wasn't crying and moaning when the match was stopped while his game was on fire. When the ump said play he played when he said stop he stopped and didn't make a big presentation of either event.

By the way slasher did you see how Novak gave Nadal a point to make up for a blown call in the second set when Nadal again was complaining to the official for making the right call? The linesman blew the call the ump rulled to play the point over 0-15 Nadal. Nadal wanted 0-30 and the point to be given to him. The official said play the point over and Novak said no Nadal had won the point and gave it to him. It was a beyond the board move of etiquette and sportsmanship. But I doubt any of the Novak haters on this site will acknowledge it.

First step for Novak tomorrow is to hold serve. If he gets broken, then he is in very dangerous territory, as Rafa tends to thrive off of the adrenaline of breaking his opponent and will then attempt to finish the match by finishing with a subsequent break. Novak's 1st serve % has to be at least 70% to have a chance and he has to continue giving Rafa different looks, i.e. be willing to engage in baseline exchanges and then coming into net when the opportunity presents itself. Novak has actually been fairly decent at net in the match, winning 70% of his approaches to the net (i.e. 16 of 23). His volleying has also been quite impressive.

Novak is still down two sets to one, so it still advantage Rafa, but I get the feeling if Novak pulls out the fourth set, it could prove decisive.

To clarify further, Nadal complained throughout the third set about the conditions. It was obviously difficult for him because 1) he is a slider and he couldn't do confidently, and 2) he couldn't manage topspin on his shots. Djokovic was dealing with the conditions better with his flat shots. Finally, when the referee came to him as he sat in the courtside chair to tell him play is suspended, he was visibly very angry and upset because they stopped the match immediately after he put an end to Novak's 8-0 run. He said why stop play now as it wasn't raining anymore than in the past hour and he accused the umpire of being inconsistent.

Frankly, I don't think the referee stopped the play because Nadal finally won a game after losing 8. The referee could be seen communicating with several others for the previous half hour or so contemplating when to say enough is enough. Nadal was obviously not in control of his game and neither was he in control of his emotions. I don't believe he would have been tactically sound in that frame of mind. I think the stoppage then was good for his prospects.

Kemet i agree the first hold is huge for Novak. A very good point. I think he will have a very tough time of winning the fourth set if cedes back momentum and gives the break up early. The caveat is that in these conditions with these two guys playing one break isn't all that much of a lead and I think Novak realizes that and realizes that maybe more than one break will be needed anyway to win that set. One thing I have to say is that while I believe Novak can win, I think he may have left it too late similar to his comeback against fed last year after dropping two sets in the semi last year.

I want a 5th because the French Open has rarely had 1 in the final. I don't think 18 hours off will affect Djokers rhythm too much, like others said he needs to hold straight off and stay the aggresor.

I agree socal, that was very sporting of Novak. Djokovic really struggled with his serve the first couple of sets but once he started serving better and relaxed he really cut loose off both wings. Djokovic is so streaky and when he gets in that zone, he is lethal! Hope he can keep the momentum and hold in that first game when they return. Would be fascinating if it went into a fifth set!

Djokos father complaining about Nadals coaching from the box http://multimedia.quotidiano.net/ubitennis.shtml?tipo=media&media=26576

Confirming that Djoko is the GOAT ever.

slashermcguirk wrote:I agree socal, that was very sporting of Novak. Djokovic really struggled with his serve the first couple of sets but once he started serving better and relaxed he really cut loose off both wings. Djokovic is so streaky and when he gets in that zone, he is lethal! Hope he can keep the momentum and hold in that first game when they return. Would be fascinating if it went into a fifth set!

Yes that is the thing I didn't forsee. I thought that Novak would continue to serve at a high percentage like he did against Fed. And all year his serve has been pretty good it has been the forehand that has gone streaky. But in the first two sets he was in just under 50 percent and playing Nadal on clay that just isn't going to get it done. His first serve percentage really let him down in the first two sets. If he loses that will be one big reason why.

socal1976 wrote:Kemet i agree the first hold is huge for Novak. A very good point. I think he will have a very tough time of winning the fourth set if cedes back momentum and gives the break up early. The caveat is that in these conditions with these two guys playing one break isn't all that much of a lead and I think Novak realizes that and realizes that maybe more than one break will be needed anyway to win that set. One thing I have to say is that while I believe Novak can win, I think he may have left it too late similar to his comeback against fed last year after dropping two sets in the semi last year.

That is true. The thing I would say about last year is that the French crowd willed Roger to victory, although Roger was playing quite well. This same dynamic is not there. In fact, I have always got the feeling that the Parisian crowd has never completely embraced Rafa and are longing for a new RG champion. Rafa's ruthless dominance has most likely left Parisians somewhat jaded by the one-sided nature of his past titles, although Roger did at least try to make most of the finals they played in competitive, bar 2008.

From Rafa's point of view, he is going to be gunning for that Novak serve from the first point and Novak has to be aware of this and ready to play. There will be no time for him to play himself in. Rafa is most likely going to keep getting Novak's balls back into play and attempt to force the eventual error from Novak. This error paid dividends for Rafa in the first two sets. However, Novak began to find a good rhythm on his groundstrokes and as the third set progressed, I could sense panic and uncertainty creeping into Rafa's game.

In summary, I think that Rafa would rather wrap his title up in 4 sets. Going into a fifth set, where there is no tie break, and where Novak has demonstrated an ability to break Rafa (he could teach Roger a thing or two about breaking Rafa), a fifth set could be a rather problematiic proposition for Rafa.

Yes Kemet I was very surprised at how boisterous the french fans were in that 3rd set when Novak was winning and making his comeback. i mean all fans like more tennis and a comeback but there did seem to be a bit more umph to it than would be expected. I agree if it goes 5 with Novak's ability to break as the best returner in the world I would have my money on Novak. But I still think at best it is 50/50 that he will win the 4th set. If he does win the 4th set I think he takes the match as at that point Nadal will be battling more than Novak he will be battling demons.

Jahu wrote:Djokos father complaining about Nadals coaching from the box http://multimedia.quotidiano.net/ubitennis.shtml?tipo=media&media=26576

Confirming that Djoko is the GOAT ever.

He is right. When all is said and done Nole will be the GOAT. It's his destiny.

Look for Novak to really focus on getting the first ball in and I also think he figured out that he has to go up the line more to get Nadal scrambling, I think he was making silly errors in the first two sets and was pretty content to play cross court with Nadal and let Nadal settle into a rhthymn. I like the more aggressive posture of stepping in close to the baseline and being the first to break the pattern of play and change direction up the line. He is good enough at that, probably best in the world to keep that higher risk, higher reward strategy in play.

Olly wrote:NEW THREAD NEW THREAD NEW THREAD NEW THREAD

https://www.606v2.com/t30739-day-16-men-s-singles-final-continued

Noted. I will post all subsequent comments to the thread that you have created.

Locking this thread. Please use the other thread to continue.