South Africa vs England 2nd Test - Teams and Live match thread

[robshaw4england]

First topic message reminder :

Edit: Actual squads added to OP for reference
South Africa vs England
2nd test, Ellis Park, Johannesburg (capacity 62,500)

South Africa
Pat Lambie, JP Pietersen, Jean de Villiers (capt), Francois Steyn, Bryan Habana, Morne Steyn, Francois Hougaard, Pierre Spies, Willem Alberts, Marcell Coetzee, Juandre Kruger, Eben Etzebeth, Jannie du Plessis, Bismarck du Plessis, Tendai Mtawarira.
Reserves: Adriaan Strauss, Werner Kruger, Flip van der Merwe, Keegan Daniel, Ruan Pienaar, Wynand Olivier, Bjorn Basson.

Only changes are due to injuries to Zane Kirchner and Coenie Oosthuizen - Lambie starts at fullback, with Basson and Kruger on the bench.

Weather: Sunny, should be around 10deg C for kickoff http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/993800


England: 15 Ben Foden (Northampton Saints)
14 Chris Ashton (Northampton Saints)
13 Jonathan Joseph (London Irish)
12 Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers)
11 David Strettle (Saracens)
10 Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers)
9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)
1 Joe Marler (Harlequins)
2 Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
3 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
4 Mouritz Botha (Saracens)
5 Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers)
6 Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs)
7 Chris Robshaw (capt, Harlequins)
8 Ben Morgan (Scarlets)
Replacements
16 Lee Mears (Bath Rugby)
17 Alex Corbisiero (London Irish)
18 Tom Palmer (Stade Francais)
19 Phil Dowson (Northampton Saints)
20 Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints)
21 Owen Farrell (Saracens)
22 Alex Goode (Saracens)

Tour Previews:
http://www.v2journal.com/the-south-african-perspective-on-englands-summer-tour.html
http://www.v2journal.com/englands-summer-tour.html

15. M.Brown (Quins)
14. C.Ashton (Saints)
13. M.Tuilagi (Leicester)
12. B.Barritt (Saracens)
11. B.Foden (Saints)
10. T.Flood (Leicester)
09. B.Youngs (Leicester)

08. B.Morgan (Gloucester)
07. C.Robshaw (Quins)
06. J.Haskell (Wasps)
05. G.Parling (Leicester)
04. M.Botha (Saracens)
03. D.Cole (Leicester)
02. D.Hartley (Saints)
01. A.Corbisiero (Irish)

16. J.Marler (Quins)
17. J.Gray (Quins)
18. T.Palmer (Wasps)
19. T.Johnson (Exeter)
20. D.Care (Quins)
21. O.Farrell (Saracens)
22. J.Joseph (Irish)

*If Brad Barritt is unable to play next week then I would start Tuilagi at inside and have Joseph at outside, with Turner-Hall or Allen coming onto the bench.

With Flood back at 10, England will be able to exploit his partnership with Youngs and get the best out of our centres in attack. He will also help to bring Foden, Ashton and Brown into the line with his strong passing game. Farrell looked completely out of his depth in attack today.

I'd bring Haskell in for his ball carrying ability and physicality to match the springboks. Johnson impressed me today, however he may suit coming on as an impact sub later in the game.

If Corbisiero is fit and firing I'd start him ahead of Marler simply because of Corbisiero's impressive scrummaging and form in the six nations. Marler went well today, but he is still learning and could make a huge impact off of the bench.

Thoughts?

[Chjw131]

There is absolutely no place in international rugby for a hooker who can't throw-in. None. Let Tom Youngs practice for his club (if they can put up with it) and be considered for selection when he's ticked that box.

How about we pick a winger (ie. someone can defend as well as finish) for the wing, a no 8 who can last more that 40 mins, a bench that has impact rather than just injury replacements, a FH who can pass (to his back 3 as well as his centres), and a gameplan for grown-up rugby players. SL's righted a few wrongs for T2 but still has a bit to learn.

I'm not saying you don't make some good points Barney, but that pre-supposes that we have other players that are better and ready to step in to the breach. We don't. It's as simple as that. There has been some real neglect of talent development going on in the Senior set-up for a while and it's starting to tell.

Let's take a hypothetical here. If Diddy Mears gets injured in training, who steps into the breach then? A hooker who is average in all departments and gets sent backwards at a rate of knots, or someone who has some outstanding attributes and needs exposure? Do you waste more time giving caps to someone who'll never make it or try and encourage those who could?

The same argument can be made for all of the other positions you point out. Jonny should have given way to Flood long ago and Flood been encouraged to develop another young FH so we're not stuck in a position where we have another Jonny (Hodgson) who can't make it to the RWC, Flood and that's it.

Lock is perhaps the most glaring example. There is no one of sufficient experience or quality. Palmer looked great for a while, Lawes remains crocked and has just a handful of caps then....? Botha is a stop-gap. Parling is new. Robson looked about 10% of a test lock during the week and Kitchener faired little better.

It's about accepting we want a better standard of player and experience but how do we go about getting there? In my opinion your points are all valid, but give me the other options which don't waste caps on those who'll never make the grade?

[yappysnap]

I would point out that Gray is better then average and doesn't get sent back at a rate of nots. I actually think Youngs is a very good prospect but let's not make up things about the other options now.

And as to just ignoring his rubbish throwing, if we're doing that why didn't we use the more experienced hookers at LI or Wasps? They're dynamic and have pants throwing skills.

[yappysnap]

I would also point out that you've highlighted what is to my mind Englands biggest achilles heel and also our biggest strength.

We have a massibe selection of players to choose from, more then just about any other country. But nearly all of these players are of a similar calibre (probably due to the similar acadamies) and there is little work between the clubs and the national side so it becomes very difficult for the coach to decide who is worth a punt and who isn't.

But due to this strength and weakness a key attribute any England coach needs is decisiveness, I just don't see this with SL.

[Barney McGrew did it]

Agreed – we don’t have the players (particularly with the current injuries).

All I ask is we don’t play out of position by choice. We don’t play Wade (no defence) nor T Youngs (no throw-in) yet. We start with Haskell at no 8 with Morgan for impact (since he can't last more than 40mins). We play Flood at FH to enhance an attacking angle. We don’t ask Youngs to undertake a kicking game – he's not very good at it, and we have 2 FHs who should be controlling the game (and are better at doing it than Youngs). And whilst kicking we make sure there’s a chase. We mix up a physical game (it is SA after all) with an attacking game (hence Flood to start, and Care off the bench). We don’t bring on Ickle Mears to take on the might of the SA scrum.

[LondonTiger]

Throwing in has been an issue for quite some time in England.

Thomson had a period when he suffered the yips.
Hartley blows hot and cold.
Chuter has been iffy for a few years now.
Webber is not good.
Lindsay is worse.

Yesterday (from what I have read) Youngs was not good (which we know about) but Grey was even worse.


As to Mears, the reason he is on the bench is obvious. Picture the scenario. England are 2 pts up with 90 seconds to play. SA have a scrum on our line and Mears trots on. The SA front row start laughing, really hard. They laugh so much that the ref penalises them for failure to engage. Farrell kicks to touch. Mears, the only hooker who can throw, finds Dowson at the tail. He feeds to Dickson who kicks the ball out and England have won.

[yappysnap]

LT you are a genious.

Do you work for the Telegraph or are you part of the England camp?

[Geordie]

There is absolutely no place in international rugby for a hooker who can't throw-in. None. Let Tom Youngs practice for his club (if they can put up with it) and be considered for selection when he's ticked that box.

How about we pick a winger (ie. someone can defend as well as finish) for the wing, a no 8 who can last more that 40 mins, a bench that has impact rather than just injury replacements, a FH who can pass (to his back 3 as well as his centres), and a gameplan for grown-up rugby players. SL's righted a few wrongs for T2 but still has a bit to learn.

But your saying there IS a place for an aging hooker...who has no scrummaging power...will get knocked back all day long by any International pack (and backs come to think of it) and has already been embarrased in South Africa before....

At least Youngs is seriously aggressive...is a powerful scrummager and is a powerhouse for his small height. I know who i'd rather have coming off the bench....

PS

I was also calling for Lindsay to go...an absolute powerhouse and great season for wasps. If his throwing is that bad...have one of the props do it....

[Barney McGrew did it]

There is absolutely no place in international rugby for a hooker who can't throw-in. None. Let Tom Youngs practice for his club (if they can put up with it) and be considered for selection when he's ticked that box.

How about we pick a winger (ie. someone can defend as well as finish) for the wing, a no 8 who can last more that 40 mins, a bench that has impact rather than just injury replacements, a FH who can pass (to his back 3 as well as his centres), and a gameplan for grown-up rugby players. SL's righted a few wrongs for T2 but still has a bit to learn.

But your saying there IS a place for an aging hooker...who has no scrummaging power...will get knocked back all day long by any International pack (and backs come to think of it) and has already been embarrased in South Africa before....

At least Youngs is seriously aggressive...is a powerful scrummager and is a powerhouse for his small height. I know who i'd rather have coming off the bench....

PS

I was also calling for Lindsay to go...an absolute powerhouse and great season for wasps. If his throwing is that bad...have one of the props do it....

err no

[Geordie]

Ah sorry i was mislead to thinking you would select Mears over Lindsay or Youngs etc purely on the basis he can through....

My apologies...

[LondonTiger]

Personally I do not believe tom Youngs should be on the bench for an international. I would prefer Grey over Mears, but there we go.

I would like to see Youngs get a lot more game time at tigers this coming season, and hopefully no back injuries which will hamper throwing. His throwing in practice sessions is good, but it can be hard to replicate the pressures of game time - the affects opposition can have etc.

I thing that at club level he offers enough that we can wait for the throwing to develop. At international level however I feel you have to be able to do the basics for your position. Right now he cannot. (that virtually every othe roption cannot is a sad indictment of our player development)

[Zander]

We certainly do need a backup to Hartley who can throw and be good in open play.

So what are the options? How about Jamie George? I have to say I haven't seen much of him but I've heard good reviews. Rob Buchanen? I know he is young but he filled in well for Harlequins or do we just need to get some of our current hookers better a throwing? eg. Tom Youngs, Tom Lindsay, etc.

[Barney McGrew did it]

Well, Rowntree is credited with improving Marler's scrummaging. Can we not get someone in (Thommo?) to develop our hookers - particularly as this is a weak position for England after Hartley. And you'd thought throwing-in would be something you could work at quite easily.

[DaveM]

Happy with that side, the 10, 12, 13 is potentially quite exciting. I don't think Strettle is good enough to play for England and would rather have started Goode with Foden on the wing, but apart from that this is probably as good as we can do with this squad.

If Corbs has to come on as TH we probably have a major problem - it's been a while.

[ChequeredJersey]

No Care? I heard he was one of England's few standout players on Wednesday. Also, not sure Dowson is best option on bench. Other than that looks ok. Give Johnson another chance, centres might work might fail: seemed harsh on Allen to make him play out of position in the midweekers. Glad Glood's starting. Marker over Corbs is 50/50

[Taylorman]

Whats this Jonathan Joseph like. I like it when the younger ones get given a go...even if its too early. Seems to be generally described as reliable and keen.

Hope he adds to the occasion in a big way in the backs.

[HQ matt]

taylorman- joseph is exciting, great step and quick. he a very different centre to anything you will have seen in an england shirt for many a year, he has been compared with guscott. its a brave selection and a risky one but i think we all agree quite refreshing.

[HQ matt]

oh and think everyone is too hard on mears.

lineout throwing IS the most important thing for a hooker especially coming off the bench in a test and mears is clearly the most consistent and experienced.

also his carrying isnt bad either, low centre of gravity makes him difficult to bring down and his presentation is excellant.

he is not a destructive scrummager clearly but he seems to get all the blame for the poor lions scrum in SA when it was the whole front row at fault. i have seen tests with mears at hooker and england scrum has been fine.

mears is the best option for replacement hooker on this tour. Having said that i have been very impressed by tom youngs, the little i have seen of him, and hope he can oust chuter at the tigers and improve his throwing. If he can do that he will be challenging Hartley for the 6 nations, webber also, unfortunately he is injured.

[Duty281]

England to edge out the Saffers by a close 4 points. Come on England!

[Cumbrian]

Whats this Jonathan Joseph like. I like it when the younger ones get given a go...even if its too early. Seems to be generally described as reliable and keen.

Hope he adds to the occasion in a big way in the backs.

He's small-ish when you compare him to some guys who play in his position, but he has a great centre of gravity and uses great footwork to beat his man. Somebody wrote yesterday (can't remember where!) that he is the first English centre in a long, long time who has an outside break. I agree with that.

[fa0019]

Cumbrian

Not so sure he's that smallish... rather guys like Tuilagi and Fioure are large-ish for their position.

Look at BOD, Smith, Ashley-Cooper and young SA OCs such as De Jongh, Sadie, Engelbrecht... none of them are more 6'1.. 15st.

[Cumbrian]

Here's a few bits and pieces from Youtube:

Trys:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnGKPvRuvPw&feature=player_detailpage#t=41s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwjwOjFFlx0&feature=player_detailpage#t=40s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMkp1exn3nY&feature=player_detailpage#t=94s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2Aggkvhr2M

Decent Handling:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pND9cbQZNjA

[formerly known as Sam]

Cumbrian, Manu has a great outside break (as seen against Ireland pre RWC when he rounded Earles with ease), problem is with the English defence being so deep and the passing so slow the drift defence has gotten to the outside backs with ease. Now Flood is back in at ten I'm hoping that will change and the Tuilagi/Joseph partnership is sort of like hammer and the sickle. Barn stroming stuff from Manu and then the sharp lines at speed from Joseph. They both can pick great lines off of Flood and there's plenty of pace between the two of them.

[Cumbrian]

Cumbrian

Not so sure he's that smallish... rather guys like Tuilagi and Fioure are large-ish for their position.

Look at BOD, Smith, Ashley-Cooper and young SA OCs such as De Jongh, Sadie, Engelbrecht... none of them are more 6'1.. 15st.

Suppose it is how you look at it, at 5ft 11in & 14st 2lb he will be the smallest centre on the pitch on Saturday by a long way. The same could be said if he was playing Wales (Davies and Beck) or New Zealand (Sonny Bill & Smith).

[Zander]

Maybe with Tuilagi playing at 12, he will see the ball faster from the ruck and so the defence won't have as much time to get up to him. This would allow him much more space to run at the South African backline, which can only be good.

[Cumbrian]

Cumbrian, Manu has a great outside break (as seen against Ireland pre RWC when he rounded Earles with ease), problem is with the English defence being so deep and the passing so slow the drift defence has gotten to the outside backs with ease. Now Flood is back in at ten I'm hoping that will change and the Tuilagi/Joseph partnership is sort of like hammer and the sickle. Barn stroming stuff from Manu and then the sharp lines at speed from Joseph. They both can pick great lines off of Flood and there's plenty of pace between the two of them.

Fair point, but to me Joseph is the sort of outside centre I grew up playing alongside. The crafty footwork to fix the man and put him back on his heels whilst he gets ready to burn around his outside shoulder.

(Manu is a force of nature and will often try to go through the man, as opposed to around him )

I like the set up for Saturday though, I was saying to my friend whilst watching the first test that we needed to get Manu into the game more, that will happen with him at inside centre. He should fix the defence and make space for Joseph. With Ashton poaching along side, I can see some potential.

[jamesandimac]

Waldroms been promoted to the bench over Dowson, just come on twitter

[jamesandimac]

Dowsons got an injury

[Zander]

Well that's better news for our impact bench although I'm concerned if Johnson or Robshaw get injured as you don't particually want Waldrom at 6. Overall, he is better than Dowson and is a solid replacement for Morgan, where he is needed.

[formerly known as Sam]

Confirmed on Tigers website, Dowson out and Waldrom in. That's a like for like sub for Morgan when he tires then.

http://www.leicestertigers.com/news/14173.php

[gregortree]

I hope Catt shows Manu how to pass. Although I love his cannonball style, he breaks the gain line, but predictably fails to pass. The oppo defence know they can quit worrying about the pass, and just gang bang him. If he could vary his play, place doubt in the oppo minds, and occasionally release a smart pass putting the speedy wingers into space, Manu could become devastating. Hope Catt can coach him more in this direction.

[doctor_grey]

Confirmed on Tigers website, Dowson out and Waldrom in. That's a like for like sub for Morgan when he tires then.

http://www.leicestertigers.com/news/14173.php

England must have looked for a sub by waist dimension as the first criteria. Girth for Girth.
(bugger)

[englandglory4ever]

Flood to start was a no-brainer really. Farrell was wooden and lacked spark or nous.

Youngs must surely be at the last chance saloon! Another lacklustre performance like the last one and he will surely make way for Care/Dickson in the 3rd test.

Ashton still there!!!! Surely only because injury concerns with the others. Defensively he just ain't got the stomach for test rugby.

[englandglory4ever]

I like Manu for several reasons but putting him at 12 consigns Joseph to a purely defensive role for the whole 80 mins. He'll never get a pass unless Flood throws a miss-pass to him!!!!!

[formerly known as Sam]

gregortree what space? The Saffa defence comfortably drifted across and covered every English attack due to the slow distribution from 10 and the deep standing backs. There's no point Manu flinging the ball out wide for a winger or fullback to take the ball into contact purely because Manu will make twice as many metres in contact as they will. Manu will go through a gap before taking contact, the fact he's taking contact so much shows that there is so little space out wide rather than any preference on his part.

Youngs must surely be at the last chance saloon! Another lacklustre performance like the last one and he will surely make way for Care/Dickson in the 3rd test

englandglory4ever, hardly. Dickson was horrendous off the bench last weekend, he slowed everything down and his passing from the breakdown deep to Farrell meant that there was absolutely nothing to tie in the Saffa defence, at least Youngs picked and stepped before looking to move the ball in order to try and force the Boks defence up so that runners had a chance to target the holes. Care is realistically the only challenger to the 9 shirt and he seems well out of favour with Lancaster as he hasn't even made the bench.

[gregortree]

Glory4,
I agree, hope Joseph gets some ball from Flood to show us what he has, as I fear he will see precious little from Manu. Unless the latter has undergone a Paulian (Cattian ?) conversion to passing, since the last test.

[englandglory4ever]

Sam, surely you couldn't have failed to notice the endless poor box kicks by Youngs, his loopy passes and ponderous thinking time at the base before making his mind up to kick yet again? (I'm sure at least one of his kicks lead to a SA try from a counter-attack).

At least the whole tempo of England's play increased when Dickson came on and we scored a nice try.

All the time Youngs was there the only chance we had of scoring a try is if he made a 5 metre break to the line himself.

[englandglory4ever]

What's a 'sticky' anyway. Never been up the top of the page before.

[Geordie]

I think manu is coming for a lot of flack on here and its unwarrented. He was the only one taking the game to the boks aggressively. Maybe with flood now he will get a little more space to show what he can do. As with Ashton hopefully with flood playing flat he will get more chances. His def is still woeful...but hey.

Regardless it wont mean didly if our ball carrying forwards make as poor a contribution as the last test.

Flood isnt superman and going to win it for us alone.....but he might just be the catalyst to a better performance offensively.

[Zander]

'Sticky' just keeps this topic on the front page.

Also on the idea that Joseph won't get the ball well, after Tuilagi goes into the tackle and recycles, Flood can then shift the ball onto Joseph so he will see some attacking ball.

[formerly known as Sam]

We scored a nice try when Dickson came on because Flood stood flat and took the ball on the move, it had nout to do with the scrum half that been on the field for some 15 minutes previously dithering at the breakdown and watching the Saffas wheel our scrum with the ball at the back feet and doing nothing!

Youngs' kicking was too long but so was Farrell's and Brown's. It was some tactical ploy by the coaches not to go for touch and to try and win territory by kicking deep and inviting the Boks to run at an organised defensive line (hence no kick chase). I'm not a fan of it as an option but someone on the coaching panel clearly orchestrated it because the defensive alignment and no kick chase looked to be a set move and ties in with the kicking tactics employed during the 6N. Looking to see more of the attacking side of Youngs this weekend, with Flood attacking the gainline I expect to see him picking and playing more often as the Bok defence try to cover both the forward and backs threat as opposed to the forwards and Manu threat last time out.

[Zander]

It was also a good break from Joseph to set up the opportunity to score the try. I'm really pleased for Joseph, he deserves his chance, hopefully he will add a bit of magic to England's backline.

[nobbled]

Wish Care was on the bench at least.
He is the in-form SH right now, and was sharp in the mid-week game.
Hopefully Flood will give Youngs the confidence to pass more often than kick this time.
Looking forward to this game - the pressure is on the Boks as a win is now expected of them. If the backs can get some momentum it should be a better game than last week.

[BigTrevsbigmac]

I like Manu for several reasons but putting him at 12 consigns Joseph to a purely defensive role for the whole 80 mins. He'll never get a pass unless Flood throws a miss-pass to him!!!!!

Not necessarily!

If we go through the phases and tie in defenders (Manu will do this) Joseph will hopefully be getting the ball a bit quicker.as second or third receiver.

[BigTrevsbigmac]

Confirmed on Tigers website, Dowson out and Waldrom in. That's a like for like sub for Morgan when he tires then.

http://www.leicestertigers.com/news/14173.php

England must have looked for a sub by waist dimension as the first criteria. Girth for Girth.
(bugger)

Waldron was the stand out performer in the mid week game and is probably our best carrier of the ball in the whole squad.

[Barney McGrew did it]

Bit of a hiding to nothing when choosing the backrow bench. With Morgan starting - he'll have to be replaced between 40 & 60. And with the physical workout that SA will give the BR, at least one of the flankers should be replaced (either because of injury or just being knackered) - look at how our physicality tailed off in the 2nd half. Suggests Haskell would be a better bench option. Plus a utility BR/SR (if we had one fit).

My view is that if you can't perform at least 60mins of full-on rugby, you shouldn't start.

[Zander]

Bit of a hiding to nothing when choosing the backrow bench. With Morgan starting - he'll have to be replaced between 40 & 60. And with the physical workout that SA will give the BR, at least one of the flankers should be replaced (either because of injury or just being knackered) - look at how our physicality tailed off in the 2nd half. Suggests Haskell would be a better bench option. Plus a utility BR/SR (if we had one fit).

My view is that if you can't perform at least 60mins of full-on rugby, you shouldn't start.

Had Launchbury not been injured, I would have backed him to fill the backrow/second row bench spot.

[Triangulation]

Allow me to summarise the views us all collectivley about our team on a man by man individual basis....

3Cole doesn’t do enough in the loose
2Hartley doesn’t do enough in the loose
1Marler doesn’t do enough in the loose
4Parling does nothing other than lineout operations
5Botha does not carry and misses tackles
6Johnson does spade work well but does not carry much. He does not offer a lineout option
7Robshaw does spade work and does carry and does lead but does not offer a lineout option
8Morgan is fat and unfit
9Youngs runs well but kicks and passes poorly
10Flood does everything 6 out of 10 and goes missing in big games like v Ireland
12Tuilagi cannot or will not pass cannot or will not kick
13JJ is an unknown quantity but might be a little lightweight in defence
14Ashton cannot defend or tackle or kick
11Strettle looks like a school boy in a man's game
15Foden is not a very good kicker

16Mears is good at lineout throwing and nothing else
17Corbisiero cannot play tighthead and does not do enough in the loose
18Palmer is not considered to be an out and out 4 or a 5 and is ageing
19Waldrom is fat and unfit
20Dickson dithers and does not or cannot snipe
21Farrell can kick and tackle but that is all
22Alex Goode has good fullback skills but is slow

COME ON ENGLAND PROVE US WRONG!!!!

[WELL-PAST-IT]

Tri, what is it like constantly looking on the black side of things.

I bet when the sun comes out, you complain about sunburn.

In a drought, when it rains, you complain that you can't cut the grass.

If someone invites you down the pub for a drink, do they always have the wrong sort of beer.

I have known an worked with a number of pessamists in my life but never one as bad as you come across.

[Triangulation]

Tri, what is it like constantly looking on the black side of things.

I bet when the sun comes out, you complain about sunburn.

In a drought, when it rains, you complain that you can't cut the grass.

If someone invites you down the pub for a drink, do they always have the wrong sort of beer.

I have known an worked with a number of pessamists in my life but never one as bad as you come across.

You are right. I am the pits. But in fairness am i not only summarising what others have said?

England players at least according to us on here are "bits and pieces players" who can fullfll some key roles/ skills but not others.

Besides i hope that i and the rest of us are wrong. So does my wife.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

My wife is NEVER wrong, shall I go and ask her what she thinks?

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