Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[Diggers]

First topic message reminder :

Of course there are shades of grey but ultimately nobody can be sent to jail for saying they would like to kiddy fiddle but won't as it's illegal and cannot include consent by definition.
They go to jail when they break the law by looking at images or worse acts. So what do you do, change the laws ? Having an open debate won't change the laws, it will still come down to the same thing.
So whether they are deemed evil by society or not is ultimately fairly irrelevant as far as I can see. The end game remains the same.

[super_realist]

I think you are over estimating the influence of a bunch of overplayed poofs kicking a football around on the rest of the world.

Spain, Italy and Germany all have leagues they are more interested in. America couldn't give a toss about football either.

Music? Really. Who was the last important export from here?

[mystiroakey]

"Music? Really. Who was the last important export from here?"

[super_realist]

Well go on then? Jedward?

[mystiroakey]

Do you live on planet earth?

[super_realist]

I'm still waiting.

[mystiroakey]

what are you waiting for dude?

When you have acts like adele and mumford and sons(and another 500000000000 besides) yet you bring up jedward, i am struggling to work out if your being serious or not..

[super_realist]

I can't believe you are being serious. If you think a few albums from a fat knacker like Adele or a few deadbeat hippies like Mumford and Son's has much impact on the UK from an international point of view I think you are deluded.

You have to sell almost zero albums to be successful these days. Pound to a penny if you asked your average American who Mumford and Sons were they'd look at you very blankly indeed.

Just looked up Mumford on Youtube. Total crap.

[mystiroakey]

there are in the top ten selling albums on the billboards. and yet you dont think americans know who there are

its about combined- not two acts-= i am not gonna list the 100's of successfull exports from this country.

If you cant understand the impact this country has from exporting music then it is not me that is dilluded SR

[pedro]

The above mentioned are all forgotten next year.

[super_realist]

So people are going to contribute to the UK economy on the basis of the EPL and drivel like Mumford and Son's

[mystiroakey]

ermm.. maybe but isnt that the point- go back through any year, whether they stay or go- they are allways there

[mystiroakey]

SR i understand you dont get the intanglible concept of country branding, and i take it you never will- So lets just leave it dude

[JAS]

I would imagine Sky will employ enough accountancy expertise to enable them to pay as minimal an amount as possible in UK corporation tax on their profits made from us sheep who subscribe.

I know it's fashionable to have a go at large businesses and their management of tax affairs at the moment, but Sky's group accounts for year ended 30 Jun 2012 show total profit before tax of £1.2bn, and a tax charge of £283m - which they say is all UK corporation tax (similar figures for the prior year too). Can't say I know a huge amount about the business/industry or anything about this particular company's attitute towards tax risk etc, but that doesn't seem an unreasonably low amount on the face of it.

Well to be fair that's reasonable, much more reasonable than the multinational I.T. Consultancies who are bleeding our country dry, body shopping in cheap labour onto government projects that they then charge out at exhorbitant fees to pathetically unaware government departments. Not only do they barely pay a bean in corp tax they are effectively throwing British workers and individual contractors onto the dole and reducing the overall spending power of the UK public and consequently reducing our ability to grow our way out of recession.

[super_realist]

It's not exactly Dark Side of The Moon or The Beatles in terms of the influence though is it, and even if they are in the top ten Billboard sales, I doubt that the people buying the music are making a connection to the music and the UK and their associated opinion thereof.

The effect of short lived acts like Mumford and Son's will be utterly negligible to the UK.

[mystiroakey]

Yeah well you are twisting this up, when you add 100 acts like munford- the sum means something- the fact that we can sell two bit acts(although munford are class)- but i will use one direction in this example- shows the power we have , that other nations listen and stand up when a new brit band comes along..



btw the dark side of the moon still sells loads even today!!

i you wanna talk about what bands have the potential to be a who or a beatles- then well thats another subject entirely

[Diggers]

He's was also apparently an excellent fighter pilot.

Digs ... just a shame the draft-dodging president didn't choose to deploy those skills where it mattered ... in Vietnam!

As far as Im concerned that in another sign of his intelligence. Id certainly be dodging any draft that I could.

[super_realist]

THe point being Oakey that I don't really see that the likes of Adele or Mumford and Son's (insert any other one here) as having much of a British identity, or rather people who buy their music either aren't aware of where they come from, fail to make an association with that or even care.

As for those little poofs in one direction, they'll be about as well known abroad as any other manufactured band on any other countries version of the karaoke show X-Factor are over here.
Know anything about Finnish X Factor "stars" Planning a visit on the back of that are you?

[mystiroakey]

the point is sr- our acts sell abroad-one direction wernt big because they cracked our market they were big because they sold massive in the us and other forign markets- the finnish dont sell abroad- Isnt this point coming though! maybe i am not explaining myself well enough!

so no the finnish x factor bands are not as big as one direction- They have made 10 million quid each(thats what they have pocketed!!) remember that these manufatured bands are lucky to earn 1 percent of profits!!..

[navyblueshorts]

Come on S_R. Mumford & Sons I neither know, nor care, about but Adele is obviously going to be around for some time - assuming she wants to be.

As for globally successful musical exports: Iron Maiden, Queen, Eric Clapton, Black Sabbath, Led Zepplin, U2 (can I include them even if I think Bono's a prat?!), Rolling Stones, David Bowie etc etc etc. They are all, de facto long-lived and extremely successful musical exports and that's just in a few seconds, off the top of my head, from the sort of things I include from my tastes.

[mystiroakey]

u2 are irish but yeah

[navyblueshorts]

As far as Im concerned that in another sign of his intelligence. Id certainly be dodging any draft that I could.

In his case, I doubt it was down to any intellect. Cowardice? Contempt for the 'plebs' in the U.S. who were having to 'do their bit' while he could avoid it? At least, being stupid, he's not as contemptible as Bliar for his past record - he knew what he was doing.

[super_realist]

Navy, my question was:-

"Who was the last important export from here?"

Of course you could go back to Zeppelin, Bowie, Who, Kinks etc, but that was generations ago, and if you have to go that far back, it proves my point.

Of course music is still produced in the UK, but it's not necessarily associated with the UK by those abroad, and bar a few acts seldom leaves these shores. The bands you mentioned, the dreadful U2 excepted were blatantly British.

[mystiroakey]

MUSE
RADIOHEAD
COLDPLAY
OASIS


massive newer brit bands

[Shotrock]

You know what UK bands don't seem to get enough attention IMO? "The Stone Roses" and "The Las" - some excellent songwriting.

[mystiroakey]

love the stone roses- but the las- i dont even now em!

[Shotrock]

Mysti - Quality over quantity ...

One GREAT album: http://www.amazon.com/Las/dp/B000001FGX/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1352383307&sr=8-1&keywords=The+Las

[super_realist]

COme on Oakey. Those bands have been around for years.

I was a teenager when Oasis and Radiohead started.

Sounds like you want UK to have an influence on culture around the world, I just don't think it does anymore to the extent to which it used to, and which you would like it to.

Perhaps people abroad like Shotrock and Kwini can comment.

How can you never have heard of The La's Oakey?

[mystiroakey]

oh the la's!!

lol

[mystiroakey]

SR -well we do - so you can believe it or not- but we do. and yes i want that to stick around because its an important way for this country to remain strong

[super_realist]

Sorry, I just don't see it. I've travelled lots across Europe in the last few years and seen precious little evidence of that, I've seen more contempt than anything.

[mystiroakey]

I go europe all the time sr- all they do is play brit music.

Also i never get any contempt!- well minimal amounts

but as i said our markets are in asia and usa

[super_realist]

I go europe all the time sr- all they do is play brit music.

Also i never get any contempt!- well minimal amounts

but as i said our markets are in asia and usa

They don't play it because it's British though or because they want to be British, and I doubt they even know it's British. It's just music they like and I doubt Britain gets any cultural gospel spreading due to it.

[Shotrock]

Super - From one man's perspective:

Coldplay - an absolute guilty pleasure for many, including me sometimes; syrup topped with sugar. But not a band to listen to for hours.

Oasis - After "Champagne Supernova" nothing moved me much. Lots of fun to watch the brothers feud and while I think I've got a pretty good ear, I need subtitles when the boys talk.

Radiohead - Underappreciated.

But here's the thing -- if you really like a band or music, you don't think of them as being from the US or UK ... "Astral Weeks" is one of my favorite albums of all time, yet I never dwelled on the "Irish-ness" of it all.

My daughter loves Adele. What's not to love? Brilliant songwriting, but will she be a one or two album wonder or the next Joni Mitchell?

RAP (aka Really Awful Poetry) ... pretty much confuses me and I don't spend any of my limited time pursuing.

[mystiroakey]

why would they want to be british?

I am not suggesting anything of the sort mate.

and yeah they are not stupid- they now where music comes from. and if they dont- thats life- who cares.

Western Europe was never part of the discussion in the first place..we are neighbours and are like competitive siblings..

Many of them have there steriotypes of us- but that really is there ignorance not ours

[super_realist]

What I meant to ask though Shotrock was whether the fact that they were UK acts meant anything or had any influence on whether you liked them or carried any weight for someone not from the UK listening to or buying the music?

I just can't see it being a consideration.

I like music from all over the world, but I don't get all dewey eyed over the origin of where they came from and it does nothing for my perception of the country. So I can't see why someone listening to Coldplay in Timbuctu would think of the UK whilst listening to it or think it was a cool place because of it. Why would they care? It's about the music surely?

[mystiroakey]

SRock does your averag US citizen recognise britain as a musical force..

Btw i have never meet a yank that doesnt!

[super_realist]

SRock does your averag US citizen recognise britain as a musical force..

Btw i have never meet a yank that doesnt!

Oakey, that's a loaded question. Shame on you.

[mystiroakey]

"Coldplay in Timbuctu would think of the UK whilst listening to it. Why would they care? It's about the music surely?"

SR what has that got to do with anything? and who is suggesting it?

[super_realist]

You've suggested all along that the export of UK music acts represents UK culture (or coolness as you put it abroad)
My assertion is that if they like the music, the origin of it is irrelevant.

[mystiroakey]

Well it does doesnt it to an extent. Well Danny Boyle certainly thought it did!!

[Shotrock]

Mysti - Absolutely, at least in my circle.

Super - Where the act comes from has no bearing on whether I will like or buy the music. But, like all of us, I'm a victim of my experiences. New music comes my way from basically two sources: WXPN (a fine, eclectic radio station from the University of Pennsylvania) and Satellite Radio (lots of music, not a lot that moves me).

[super_realist]

That's precisely the answer I was looking for.
Whether or not I like a band is not dependent on where they come from, nor does their musical exports say anything to me about the country's cultural "coolness"

[Bob_the_Job]

Cool Britannia was so 90s

But there always musical fads bouncing back and forth across the Atlantic. But a bit like nationality influencing golf talent, does it really have an ongoing and systemic impact on musical innovation?

[super_realist]

Abolutely not, For every Pink Floyd or The Who, there's a Phil Collins or Leona Lewis.

[mystiroakey]

oh come on what about the steriotypical Brit rock dude's that are potrayed in the US.

Anyway what the are missing is the key point to all this- The people that matter now where music comes from(the ones that play it to there population)- It is much easier for a UK band or singer to get air time in forign markets due to our success!!

[kwinigolfer]

Can't think of a single artist that's relatively new who I would pay good money to watch right now, regardless of where they come from, whether British, American or even Iceland.
Edgy stuff that might be innovative doesn't seem to get played on radio here, sad truth that most music in the wider public domain is from artists who are in their thirties, forties or worse.

[super_realist]

oh come on what about the steriotypical Brit rock dude's that are potrayed in the US.

Anyway what the are missing is the key point to all this- The people that matter now where music comes from(the ones that play it to there population)- It is much easier for a UK band or singer to get air time in forign markets due to our success!!

All goes back to a golden era of music where Britain actually was a cultural exporter of music.

The question which is now the third time I have posed it was: " Who was the last decent musical export"

Truth is, No one has mentioned anything from the last 15 years which people outside of the UK are aware of AND associate with the UK.

[Bob_the_Job]

Adele? Hardly innovative

[super_realist]

Derivative I would say Bob.

[mystiroakey]

SR gonna give you this win..

I am gonna stick some block party on now and do some work!!

a band that should have been a massive success!

[Sponsored content]