France v England - Paris - 01/02/2014

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French XXIII

1. T Domingo 2. B Kayser 3. N Mas
4. A Flanquart 5. P Pape
6. Y Nyanga 7. B Le Roux 8. L Picamoles
9. J-M Doussin 10. J Plisson
12. W Fofana 13. M Basteraud
11. M Medard 15. B Dulin 14. Y Huget

16. D Sarzewski 17. Y Forestier 18. R Slimani 19. Y Maestri 20. A Burban 21. D Chouly 22. M Machenaud 23. G Fickou

England XXIII

1. J Marler
2. D Hartley
3. D Cole
4. J Launchbury
5. C Lawes
6. T Wood
7. C Robshaw
8. B Vunipola
9. D Care
10. O Farrell
11. J May
12. B Twelvetrees
13. L Burrell
14. J Nowell
15. M Brown

16. T Youngs 17. M Vunipola 18. H Thomas 19. D Attwood 20. B Morgan 21. L Dickson 22. B Barritt 23. A Goode

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Barney McGrew did it wrote:The concern is the sudden change in tack by Stewie – from more conservative than Farage to more radical than Lievremont. It’s either a stroke of genius or a man out of his depth. It looks like he’s spent the last couple of years developing a decent pack, and really only concerning himself with the defensive aspect of the backs - to now working big-time on the three-quarters.

Except hes now just picked his 3/4 based on their tackling ability. He also made it clear that it was continuing concerns regarding that aspect of Ciprianis play that kept him out of the EPS.


He may well be right, having a defensive system that relies on your wingers having a high tackle count might be the world cup winning formula.
I just find it depressing hes lauded for doing exactly the opposite of what people think hes doing.

Not true, if Ashton was scoring regularly for England he'd have kept his place. May is not there for his tackling.

Lancaster said Cipriani improved that aspect of his game. It was his 'lateral running in attack' which he had concerns about.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Barney McGrew did it wrote:The concern is the sudden change in tack by Stewie – from more conservative than Farage to more radical than Lievremont. It’s either a stroke of genius or a man out of his depth. It looks like he’s spent the last couple of years developing a decent pack, and really only concerning himself with the defensive aspect of the backs - to now working big-time on the three-quarters.

Except hes now just picked his 3/4 based on their tackling ability. He also made it clear that it was continuing concerns regarding that aspect of Ciprianis play that kept him out of the EPS.


He may well be right, having a defensive system that relies on your wingers having a high tackle count might be the world cup winning formula.
I just find it depressing hes lauded for doing exactly the opposite of what people think hes doing.

Mate as said above, thats not true. May is an attacking player way over defensive...and Twelvetrees isnt as good a defender as Barritt and Burrell i think has been picked because he has been smashing through defences all season - its just a bonus he tackles like a tank aswell.

The other thing why are you complaing about them being so young and france will hammer them etc if they are so solid defensively?

Ashton is playing well for Sarries...but he simply hasnt adapted to lancaster and his coaches tactics. Ie He hasnt brought that Sarries form to England. He's had many chances and has finally been dropped...rightly or wrongly.

Peole say it sends out a wrong signal picking a young lad who has scored no premiership tries over Ashton who has 11. But what signals does it send out playing a guy who has played continuous games for England and not produced anything in attack (1 try i think it is) and really struggled defensively?

Geordiefalcon well Lancaster could say that two of his favourite wingers - Wade and Yarde are still injured. It's France away so Ashton should have been picked for his experience.

I agree with PSW that picking Nowell is a big gamble. It might well payoff but if it doesn't? If Nowell makes a decisive error which allows France to win? Lancaster will be rightfully panned.

If I am wrong I will hold up my hands and say so.

I agree aswell that Nowell is a big gamble. France away...its a massive gamble.

But what has Ashton showed us (im talking England form) that says he will make all the difference. Experience only makes a difference when those players aid the team...im not convinced Ashton does at the moment...and again that suggests tactics as he's playing well for Sarries. But this isnt Sarries...its England.

Nowell may have a blinder or a horror show...who knows.

Oh and by the way it's not just Nowell I am worried about. It's Burrell and May too. 3 inexperienced players being thrown in the deep end against France away. Hopefully they can somehow not become an incohesive mess.

Burrell im not so worried...big powerful lad.

May...yes new but he's quite powerful for his lean physique and im comfortable with him being there...

Nowell we'll see.

Beshocked...who knows what will happen...had Wade / Yarde etc been fit we'd not be watching anyo of them anyway...

I don't think any new player to a team should be panned. You've got to give them a few games at least to show what they can do.

You could easily switch that round though and say if he had gone with Ashton and he'd made a decisive error. Ashton's experience doesn't prohibit such as a thing.

The forwards will win England this game. I only really have reservations about Joe Marler in the English pack - other than that, England are fine and should dominate the forwards battle. The greatest referee in the rugby world, Nigel Owens, is officiating this game as well so England will have little problem in asserting their superiority.

If the team selection that has been bandied about does come to pass, then it'll be an England team to grind out a result in Paris, something that they are perfectly capable of doing.

The bench doesn't look the most attacking, rather it looks quite negative with the exceptions of Vunipola and Morgan, both of those are superb options to have off the bench with 20-30 minutes remaining.

England all the way for this one; this Englishman is certainly very confident.

And this England fan is also, very, very confident.

Duty281

Tom Youngs is also hardly a safety-first option on the bench. Should add some real force to our attack if Hartley tires on 60 minutes, so long as his throwing holds up.

Also Attwood on the bench and Mako V plus Henry Thomas, whilst a patchy scrummager is superb in the loose.

Not a confident England fan here.

First game up with our hardest test.. Erm. If we win I back the grand slam.. But not sure if we can raise the level first game.

Historically through sl'is carrier we have got better each game during a series or tourney.. Bar the one blip v Wales last 6nations.

mystiroakey wrote:Not a confident England fan here.

First game up with our hardest test.. Erm. If we win I back the grand slam.. But not sure if we can raise the level first game.

Historically through sl'is carrier we have got better each game during a series or tourney.. Bar the one blip v Wales last 6nations.

Wales actually appear to be our 'hardest team' at the moment previously followed by the Irish. France gave us a good game last year but we don't often get rolled over by them even in Paris. Last time they won I think it was 12-10. The trick for this side is to play!

I remember how good it was when England dominated possession and territory against New Zealand a couple of months ago and, for 40 glorious minutes, had New Zealand on the back foot.

If (that's very much the operative word) England can replicate those 40 minutes of intensity and skill over, let's say, 60 minutes or more against the French then Lancaster's lads will triumph.

On the other hand, if England clone what they did against Wales last year then France will win, and quite comfortably too.

People go on about "what French team will turn up", well I'm more interested in what England team turns up because if the right English side turn up then France will have no answer. None at all.

Chjw131 wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Not a confident England fan here.

First game up with our hardest test.. Erm. If we win I back the grand slam.. But not sure if we can raise the level first game.

Historically through sl'is carrier we have got better each game during a series or tourney.. Bar the one blip v Wales last 6nations.

Wales actually appear to be our 'hardest team' at the moment previously followed by the Irish. France gave us a good game last year but we don't often get rolled over by them even in Paris. Last time they won I think it was 12-10. The trick for this side is to play!

We are at home v Wales. On paper the toughest is France for me.

Home advantage is huge v Wales

mystiroakey wrote:

Chjw131 wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Not a confident England fan here.

First game up with our hardest test.. Erm. If we win I back the grand slam.. But not sure if we can raise the level first game.

Historically through sl'is carrier we have got better each game during a series or tourney.. Bar the one blip v Wales last 6nations.

Wales actually appear to be our 'hardest team' at the moment previously followed by the Irish. France gave us a good game last year but we don't often get rolled over by them even in Paris. Last time they won I think it was 12-10. The trick for this side is to play!

We are at home v Wales. On paper the toughest is France for me.

Home advantage is huge v Wales

I genuinely hope you're right. Not sure I could stomach another mugging at HQ!

mystiroakey wrote:

Home advantage is huge v Wales

You know England lost the last two home games against Wales right?

edit no wait 2 of the last 3   

Wales regard Twickenham as their holiday home, they go there for a break and to relax. Have a run about and then back up the M4 in time for tea and medals. England probably have a better chance to beat them in Cardiff where the pitch favours their trundling pack.

Your on form with the wums today scratch...wins in 08 and 12 is hardly holiday home stuff. Trundling pack? Did u see your Autumn ints?

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

Home advantage is huge v Wales

You know England lost the last two home games against Wales right?

edit no wait 2 of the last 3   

No just the last one..

And they were way above us at the time with sl only just starting out and it was a very close game.

It's a big advantage to the welsh or English.. But please dont think advantage means a guaranteed result..it only means advantage.

Let's not forget that it's next year that matters, SL is building a squad for next years RWC.

Screw the WC! What matters in winning NOW.

Winning now means little in the grand scheme of things. I'd happily take second place again in the 6N's if we found the right combinations to get some more wins over the SH sides.

6N's comes around every year, if we do poorly this time while experimenting then we'll have learnt from it for next years.

Shouldn't SL have built the side by now and have settled partnerships if there is an realistic chance of winning the RWC ?

Let's win now and the World Cup

False dilemma...

whocares wrote:non official french XV out (according to some inside info from l'equipe):

Domingo,  Kayser, Mas
Flanquart, Papé
Le Roux, Nyanga, Picamoles
9 Doussain,10  Plisson
Huget, Bastareaud, Fofana, Medart
Dulin

1st cap for Plisson at 10 with the not so experienced Doussain at 9...going to be interesting but at least both can kick!
the forward pack lacks a bit of grunt and raw power but is mobile and has more line out options than usual (obviously Flanquart but also Nyanga and Le Roux).

above team now confirmed

I'm looking forward to this game - the hardest game for England IMO. France is France, you just don't know what you're going to play.

Handle that front row and I think we are ok

I thought Trin-Duq (sp?) had been called up at 10 due to injury ?

funnyExiledScot wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Twelvetrees and Burrell in the centres
Nowell and May on the wings
Presumably Farrell 10, Care 9 and Brown 15

Will this be the back line? If so its very green.

You've missed the point.

You were suggesting that Lancaster was "sacrificing" the tournament to blood young players, suggesting therefore that he wasn't picking his best XV.

I disagree. The question is who in his squad of 26 is not there, but yet is fit and on better form and someone who is in there?

It may be down to injuries that so many inexperienced players are in the mix (and also the impressive form of the newer players), but I think Lancaster is picking his best players. I don't think there's any element of sacrifice involved.

I havent missed any point. I made the point or question actually.

Either way the back line is more than likely going to be fairly inexperienced.

To the squad, apparently not starting. Which is a shame as Plisson is in good form

Cool, cheers

Still amazed Machenaud is picked over Parra.

Its worth remembering that with all this talk of England's new players France are coming into this with rookie half backs and without their captain and best player. - and coached by PSA.

Nice French name Le Roux.... sounds like he may have a little boer in him.

Afrikaner backrows are soon to be SA's most successful import after diamonds, gold and I love Mandela mugs.

To be fair, I think Le Roux is an originally French name...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leroux

I'll never understand the French selection policy. They pick a 22-year old rookie at fly-half, with absolutely no back-up. Not saying Plisson isn't a fine player, he's looked very good whenever I've seen him this year, but a bloke getting his first cap at FH against England can't expect an easy time of it, and there's no knowing how he'll respond (he hasn't even played any HC rugby yet). Imagine if he goes to pieces? The only option then is to put Doussain at FH, which frankly is a silly idea.

Still at least they haven't picked three FBs in the back three. Oh wait...

I must say I'm surprised they haven't renewed the "Fofana is our best centre by a country mile, so let's stick him on the wing" experiment.

Having said that, the pack, even without Dusautoir, looks fairly formidable, so we can expect a brutal contest up front.

I also overuse the phrase to be fair

ChequeredJersey wrote:http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leroux

i would put good money on the last time one of his ancestors set foot in france was in the 1700s prior to himself.

Isn't it French for 'road' ?

Think it comes from king

nope, road is "rue"

"roux" is ginger (the colour)

More importantly he's a forward for Racing metro, which bodes well for us

Telegraph was right with Selection. Now let's see if SL was right

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25960522

Link to the team. Marler starts.

Afrikaners have french ancestry going back to the Huguenots explusions in the 1700s.... hence why you see guys with names like Le Roux, De Villiers, Pienaar. But these guys are dutch speaking boere nevertheless.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:I'll never understand the French selection policy. They pick a 22-year old rookie at fly-half, with absolutely no back-up. Not saying Plisson isn't a fine player, he's looked very good whenever I've seen him this year, but a bloke getting his first cap at FH against England can't expect an easy time of it, and there's no knowing how he'll respond (he hasn't even played any HC rugby yet). Imagine if he goes to pieces? The only option then is to put Doussain at FH, which frankly is a silly idea.

Still at least they haven't picked three FBs in the back three. Oh wait...

I must say I'm surprised they haven't renewed the "Fofana is our best centre by a country mile, so let's stick him on the wing" experiment.

Having said that, the pack, even without Dusautoir, looks fairly formidable, so we can expect a brutal contest up front.

I underestimated Doussain once. I will not do so again. I thought he played very well vs Sarries and that was as 10.

England don't really have the pack to realistically target the opposition flyhalf mind and make him uncomfortable in the traditional sense. No one of note anyhow.

fa0019 wrote:Afrikaners have french ancestry going back to the Huguenots explusions in the 1700s.... hence why you see guys with names like Le Roux, De Villiers, Pienaar. But these guys are dutch speaking boere nevertheless.

Was just saying it's a valid French name!