Ireland's Summer Tour

First topic message reminder :

Hey all,

Haven't been on here in a while, living out in the middle east so time is short and the chances to watch rugby are a little too rare. I saw the entire 6 Nations and Autumn series but haven't seen as much pro12 or HCup as I would like. So apologies if some of my picks or reasoning are off, I can only judge on what I have seen and am more than happy to watch clips that shed more light on selections etc.

So this is one for the summer tour. I am going to go out on a limb here and say this is probably the biggest summer tour we've had in a while in terms of importance. Last year gave us a look at some lads out in North America and gave some semi meaningful game time to some individuals. Two years ago we very nearly dispelled the curse of the All Blacks and previous ones have all had merit too. This one I feel is different for a number of reasons.

1) We have a new coach who is massively system and skill based. Individuals need to learn the way he wants to play, develop into it and then become comfortable playing with it in International settings. This can't be fully achieved over two games in Argentina but those two games can help.

2) We had the oldest squad of the six nations (significantly oldest). Age is not something that should affect selection but it does slow players down and increase the likelihood of injuries in some cases. We need depth here and in some positions replacements.

3) We have a bank players who are in the 1-10 cap category. These guys need game time to get accustomed to international rugby.

4) This is our last major testing opportunity for new players before the RWC. Players will come through during the 14/15 season at HCup and Pro12 level but next years 6Nations and the majority of the Autumn series will have a fairly settled look to it with less experimentation.

This is who I'd bring to Argentina for the two test series

PROPS:

McGrath: Second choice. Has impressed but has lots to learn and the gametime as first choice will do him good. Healy knows Joe's system and needs rest.
Kilcoyne: Form appears to have fallen from last season. We want depth in this position as it could be an area of strength. Better option than Court imo.
Moore: Could well end up being first choice sooner rather than later. Still has work to do on scrummaging but is developing well. Ross to rest.
Fitzpatrick: If fit he could well end up breaking into matchday 23s. He needs a chance to work in Joe's systems and learn accordingly.

HOOKERS:

Best: An obvious choice for leadership and consistency in the front row where a lot of experimentation is happening.
Cronin: An excellent impact option and deserves to tour.
Strauss: Needs further gametime at international level following his heart condition. A very talented player.

LOCKS:

O'Connell: Captain but among a number who need to mold themselves into Joe's systems still. It's still early days yet regarding new playing style.
Toner: His learning curve is rocketing and this should be allowed to continue.
Henderson: A much more dynamic player that should be explored to give us a different option in selection. Will get gametime there in Ulster 14/15.
Tuohy: I don't think he is back yet but neither is Ryan and like Hendy, Tuohy offers something different in a Hines/Thorn style.

BACKROW:

O'Mahony: Excellent player who is still learning Joe's style and about international rugby. Has a lot of growing to do imo but can become outstanding.
O'Donnell: An exciting and different option and one that should be nurtured to give Schmidt selection choices in horses for courses scenarios.
Henry: Excellent in the 6N, can kick on from this imo.
Murphy: A dynamic, powerful and versatile player that could be perfect for a world cup squad.
Heaslip: Leadership and consistency required much in the same way Best offers this. High standard and versatile playing style.

SCRUMHALVES:

Murray: An all round excellent player and first choice.
Reddan: Playing quite well and doing all the basics really well, needs to gain consistency and show he can excel when his pack are being chewed up.
Marmion: The most potential of all 9s in Ireland. Needs to be given gametime to see what he can do and possibly prepare him for more regular international gametime.

FLYHALVES:

Jackson: Leaving Sexton to rest. Jackson should start as first choice. An excellent player who has more potential and needs time with joe.
Madigan: Needs time to get back to his best and experience in high intensity rugby environments.

CENTRES:

Marshall: Needs gametime as while he has the raw materials he has lots to learn and should be aiming to challenge Darcy more.
Henshaw: My choice for the Irish 13 jersey this summer. Needs gametime at this level and time with Joe. One of my favourite players.

BACK 3:

Zebo: Needs gametime with Joe and to be in this camp. That being said needs to learn a lot before hand and McFadden could get into this squad.
Fitzgerald: Injury dependent for rest of season. Down as back up centre cover too. Could be simply excellent but needs gametime to prove his class.
Earls: Possibly best winger in Ireland in January. I really want to see him back in.
Bowe: Again seen as centre cover. Needs time with Joe and admist lots of good wingers needs to show he is one cut above the rest.
Kearney Jr: Big brother given a rest as he is a clear first choice. Dave given the chance to show he can play 15.
Trimble: Opportunity to show that he is top class after an unbelievable six nations championship.


MAIN GOALS:

1) Come away with a series win.
2) To get options at centre.
3) To create depth at loosehead prop and give Moore/Fitzpatrick the opportunity to prove they are better than Ross.
4) To improve the quality of halfbacks through gametime and time in camp.
5) To incorporate players into the new Irish way of playing the game.

What do people think?
What are peoples main goals.

neilthom7 wrote:In fairness ME-109 that's quite a wrong turn somebody really should have read the map or at least noted the weather was unusual lol
Biggest question though is if you come all the way from Ireland to Brazil why would you chose Iran v Nigeria as the game to watch

Probably got Iran in the work sweep.

Submachine wrote:

neilthom7 wrote:In fairness ME-109 that's quite a wrong turn somebody really should have read the map or at least noted the weather was unusual lol
Biggest question though is if you come all the way from Ireland to Brazil why would you chose Iran v Nigeria as the game to watch

Probably got Iran in the work sweep.

Yer man probably thought it was Ireland playing. Its quite possible that he has been out in the middle of the amazon raising heifers for the last year or so and saw IR were playing so got on his canoe and headed to the game.

geoff999rugby wrote:The reality is 12/13 is completely and utterly up in the air.
We have relied on D'Arcy BOD for so long we are having to reinvent ourselves.

D'Arcy, Marshall, Olding, Henshaw, Cave, McFadden, Payne, Bowe, Earls are all in with a shout both before and after the tour.
It is going to be a real challenged for Schmidt to find the best combination.

If all fit and playing well I'd say he'll go for D'Arcy - Bowe if a WC match was tomorrow.
Olding - Henshaw have the most naturally ability to challenge but they also the most inexperienced

Its going to be an interesting 15 months.
I maintain both Payne and Earls are better players in other positions
Their remain question marks against Marshall, Cave and McFadden this tour hasn't dispelled those question marks

Good summation Geoff. I think in reality there are question marks over everyone - in fact for the past few seasons there have been big question marks over Drico and D'arcy so this isn't an entirely new situation.

However Joe has to nail his colours to the mast and go with a starting pair, a bench option and back ups sooner rather than later. I actually don't think he s far off making his mind up and has eluded to this over the past year or so.

As Paul Wallace pointed out its not a coincidence that Schmidt, BOD and Payne sat down together last summer and Schmidt convinced BOD to stay another year until Payne qualified. That to me suggests the 13 jersey is Payne's to lose.

Cave playing 12 and talk of D'arcy playing 13 means he's looking at different options and combinations to cover injury - maybe Bowe, Madigan or McFadden coming on at 12 or 13 from the bench. It is also a string indicator that Marshall's stock has fallen probably in part due to the repeated concussions and concerns for his wellbeing and durability.

I think in the autumn we will see the various combinations of Payne, D'arcy and Cave over the 2 games because I'll bet my bottom dollar Joe has his starting combination pencilled in from these 3.

This is where Provincial form will get interesting.

If, for example, Olding makes the 12 shirt his own which he may well do he will be jumping above at least two of Marshall, Payne, Cave.

I also think it is a certainty Henshaw will get a game at 13 in the AI's.
If Bowe gets any game time there it will be very interesting.

Payne still has to deliver at 13.
If he doesn't play well for Ulster there he wont be playing AIs there

Don't see it working out like that Geoff. Schmidt and Nucifera will be looking to see certain players play where they want them - the RWC will be priority next year.

I don't see Olding being on the radar at all - Bowe and Payne will both get game time at 13 before the November series. Cave will have to demonstrate his versatility.

Henshaw has probably missed the boat at this stage too. Payne, Earls and Bowe were the 3 guys Joe mentioned after the Argentina game that were still in contention for the outside centre jersey.

I agree with the summation further back that Olding and Henshaw are probably the most talented of the lot but injuries have cost them so for me they are ones for post RWC at this stage.

Its not the IRFU way to throw these young guys in the deep end and its not Joes way either... I'd be really surprised if either made it.

Lads, are we saying the is no bolter for the RWC even from this far out? How much did Murray play top level before he broke through? If Olding lights up preseason and early Pro12 rounds then he will be given a shot surely.

I get the sense from this thread and in general that one player that really has come out of this tour in a strong position is Darcy.

But if Olding keeps Cave and Marshall out of the team it will to a degree force Schmidt hand.

If Marshall and Cave are not getting game time who are the alternatives to D'Arcy.
It is unlikely Olding will make it but the situation is so fluid it is not inconceivable
Nearly all of the alternatives to D'Arcy are Ulster players - the guy holding the Ulster 12 shirt has to be in with a shout.

I agree that whilst bolters in general will not occur - 12/13 is the exception the position is so fluid

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Man there is a lot of wading through the provincial puddles to be done here!

I still allude to that really bad decision of Zebos to come in off the wing on that 5m scrum. No idea why a player would make that decision.

That being said, he runs so flipping well, he has a canon in his left boot, he has good footwork and has upped his workrate. I'm not sure he warrants being first choice the way Trimble does but he is going to be in the mix for that left wing slot. Would love to have seen him played some at 15 on this tour as he has done so for Munster and looks class there IMO. Gives him so much more room to do his thing and Kearney needs competition (and a backup if he gets injured - god only knows where Payne is gonna slot in).

I don't think Zeeb's defense is good in the way Fitzgerald's or Bowe's or D.Kearney's is but it has improved fo sho.

Tommy Bowe's defence is nothing to write home about. Fitz is a good defender. Kearney's maybe good, but he lacks gas to put in a covering tackle like the way Zebo could do.

rodders wrote:I think we learned something else - that O'Connell looks increasing isolated as captain, a man at odds with his coach and vice captains, Bestis apart, minus his old mate Drico and his fellow Munster man O'Mahoney.

He looks a man apart -an old rocker at a rave. the rest of the set up has a very Leinster centric look about it but increasingly the spine of the side - Healy, Toner, Kearney, Heaslip, Sexton, McFadden Madigan etc. seem to be walking to a different beat to their captain.....

Was Darren Cave not saying last week in an interview that while it was great to be capped against Canada & USA, it was very special to be in a dressing room with Paul O'Connell and listen to him speak before a game?

I don't think O'Connell sees eye-to-eye with Schmidt. I think that is a problem. But from everything I have seen of POC with other (younger players with Munster, Ireland & the Lions) - they all worship him.

geoff998rugby wrote:But if Olding keeps Cave and Marshall out of the team it will to a degree force Schmidt hand.

If Marshall and Cave are not getting game time who are the alternatives to D'Arcy.
It is unlikely Olding will make it but the situation is so fluid it is not inconceivable
Nearly all of the alternatives to D'Arcy are Ulster players - the guy holding the Ulster 12 shirt has to be in with a shout.

I agree that whilst bolters in general will not occur - 12/13 is the exception the position is so fluid

The players that are in the RWC plans will get game time in the positions they are wanted in because Schmidt has more input into provincial selection than Kidney did, it was a stipulation in him taking the job - all the coaches will be sitting down with Nucifera and Schmidt during pre-season and they'll agree a plan as to which games certain players will play where. Everything is more tightly aligned now in terms of selection.

This makes it less likely that there will be a bolter, if there is it will be someone like Reid if D'arcy plays 13 at Leinster next year.

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:I think we learned something else - that O'Connell looks increasing isolated as captain, a man at odds with his coach and vice captains, Bestis apart, minus his old mate Drico and his fellow Munster man O'Mahoney.

He looks a man apart -an old rocker at a rave. the rest of the set up has a very Leinster centric look about it but increasingly the spine of the side - Healy, Toner, Kearney, Heaslip, Sexton, McFadden Madigan etc. seem to be walking to a different beat to their captain.....

Was Darren Cave not saying last week in an interview that while it was great to be capped against Canada & USA, it was very special to be in a dressing room with Paul O'Connell and listen to him speak before a game?

I don't think O'Connell sees eye-to-eye with Schmidt. I think that is a problem. But from everything I have seen of POC with other (younger players with Munster, Ireland & the Lions) - they all worship him.

That's the point - he clearly doesn't see eye to eye with Schmidt, or Heaslip, but most of the other senior leadership figures are firmly in the Schmidt camp - Drico to some degree had a foot in both camps, as a major influence and long time teammate, and with him gone O'Connell doesn't quite seem as comfortable.

Its irrelevant whether they like/loath or love each other. Schmdt needs POC for the WC with BOD gone.

Schmidt needs POC to keep the Munster fans onside. I think he'd have Cullen and Toner in there if it was his choice.

I'm sorry, but what evidence is there that there is any trouble or problem between O'Connell and Schmidt?

Ha ha rodders good one. I dont think Schmidt gives a fig about what the Munster fans think and nor should he. In terms of locks POC is light years better than anything else we have and while losing BOD is not great not having both would be disastrous.

rodders wrote:Schmidt needs POC to keep the Munster fans onside. I think he'd have Cullen and Toner in there if it was his choice.

Why does he need to keep the Munster fans onside? He didn't make much effort with Zebo & Tommy O'Donnell in the way he handled them.

And no, he wouldn't have Cullen & Toner in there. He dropped them both at various times for Leinster for Thorn & Hynes. Even Schmidt has to swallow his ego and keep POC in the team.

Schmidt has zero input into Provincial selection for the HC.
With regard to Pro12 he can insist on certain players for a limited number of games.

If Olding is the best 12 at Uslter he will play 60-75% of the games there.

Reid has will not be a bolter in a million years

Notch wrote:I'm sorry, but what evidence is there that there is any trouble or problem between O'Connell and Schmidt?

1) How Schmidt went very public about how POC should have been cited for the Kearney incident (i.e., 'think of the children watching it on youtube' comment.
2) POC always struggles to say something good about Schmidt. Most of it is very impersonal for a very personal kind of guy which he makes comments on how big he is into detail.
3) Not one photo of a handshake, embrace or anything of POC & Schmidt after winning the 6Nations. This could be due to the fact that POC was really mad with him for telling him that Tommy O'Donnell was in the matchday 23 (which POC told TOD he was), and then TOD being dropped by Greek Feek (with no explaination as to why he was dropped out of the 23). Schmidt didn't even have the balls to drop TOD himself for Jordi Murphy.

There are 3 reasons for starters .....

Any of the post match interviews in the AI's/6ns when POC was asked about Schmidts influence he never answered the question directly except for some comment on detail and namechecked both EOS and DK on a couple of occassions..found those interviews especially funny.

Latest one was his comment about players from Ulster, Munster and Connacht needing time to get used to the regime.

They tend not to do any media or press conferences together either, definitely it's a frosty one alright.

ME-109 wrote:Any of the post match interviews in the AI's/6ns when POC was asked about Schmidts influence he never answered the question directly except for some comment on detail and namechecked both EOS and DK on a couple of occassions..found those interviews especially funny.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/paul-o-connell-credits-joe-schmidt-with-bringing-clarity-to-irish-game-1.1728273

Some of POC quotes from this link. Seems all very cosy to me

“Joe’s had a massive impact, no doubt.

“It was a poor, disappointing, frustrating season last year, albeit injury-plagued as well.

“He’s brought what you’d hear Leinster players saying for the last few years.

“He’s brought real clarity, a very effective way of rucking, and people are in no doubt of their role.

“I just think when you have a good team and you can give players that kind of clarity, it allows them to be good players.

“He instils a lot of confidence in those around him with his philosophy, his strategy and his detail.

“It gives the younger guys in the squad a winning habit, and that’s important with the challenges ahead, especially leading into the World Cup.

“We’ve got to harness that confidence and belief in that build-up now, to give ourselves every chance.”

Oh but Submachine... none of those comments count! How naive you are

rodders wrote:Schmidt needs POC to keep the Munster fans onside. I think he'd have Cullen and Toner in there if it was his choice.

I think he gives zero fraks about that, honestly, and neither do the IRFU. If they are winning people will buy merchandise and come to games and the bottom line will be good regardless of a few keyboard warriors in Munster. Thats all the IRFU care about. They'd let him pick Malcolm O'Kelly and Neil Francis in the engine room if we kept winning. And if thats what it took for us to win, he'd do it. Well maybe not Franno. Sure Simon Zebo would hit more rucks than him!   

The comments are very considered and they come are published on the Monday (and from the looks of the photo in the airport in Dublin).

Just listen to what POC had to say after the win. Far more telling.

Notch wrote:

rodders wrote:Schmidt needs POC to keep the Munster fans onside. I think he'd have Cullen and Toner in there if it was his choice.

I think he gives zero fraks about that, honestly, and neither do the IRFU. If they are winning people will buy merchandise and come to games and the bottom line will be good regardless of a few keyboard warriors in Munster. Thats all the IRFU care about. They'd let him pick Malcolm O'Kelly and Neil Francis in the engine room if we kept winning. And if thats what it took for us to win, he'd do it. Well maybe not Franno. Sure Simon Zebo would hit more rucks than him!   

Maybe you guys think that the ends justifies the means. There are lots of people who around who think differently. The IRFU care very much what people think of them - after all, they are dependent on the same people to fill the stadia at internationals. And why do I know they rate the Munster support - they have turned down Munster's request to stage touring events like Australia & NZ because they are afraid that the Munster fans will be just happy to go to Thomond Park to watch Australia, NZ or SA play there.

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:I'm sorry, but what evidence is there that there is any trouble or problem between O'Connell and Schmidt?

1) How Schmidt went very public about how POC should have been cited for the Kearney incident (i.e., 'think of the children watching it on youtube' comment.
2) POC always struggles to say something good about Schmidt. Most of it is very impersonal for a very personal kind of guy which he makes comments on how big he is into detail.
3) Not one photo of a handshake, embrace or anything of POC & Schmidt after winning the 6Nations. This could be due to the fact that POC was really mad with him for telling him that Tommy O'Donnell was in the matchday 23 (which POC told TOD he was), and then TOD being dropped by Greek Feek (with no explaination as to why he was dropped out of the 23). Schmidt didn't even have the balls to drop TOD himself for Jordi Murphy.

There are 3 reasons for starters .....

I'd love to see your source for this one,is it another fantasy you've constructed from one line journalist put out there?

Agreed without proof I can't believe that - sounds lile unsubstantiated twitter gossip

What the fuc-K is 'frak'?  Stop pansydising the Irish language please!  Frak is something them teen girls speak when they have a mental breakdown on twitter, ain't it???  'Oh LOL, Frak me, he's only DropDG, OMG.'

SecretFly wrote:What the fuc-K is 'frak'?  Stop pansydising the Irish language please!  Frak is something them teen girls speak when they have a mental breakdown on twitter, ain't it???  'Oh LOL, Frak me, he's only DropDG, OMG.'

Get the box set of BattleStar Gallactica but stop watching after season 2,it really drops off in quality after that.

Sin News Just IN!!!!!!!!!:

Cue Tat Dat De DAH!!!! Newsy Intro Music:

Headline. Schmidt-No-Balls Teases TOD and Pis-ses POC.
Other news... ISIS militants close in on Bagdad...

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:I'm sorry, but what evidence is there that there is any trouble or problem between O'Connell and Schmidt?

1) How Schmidt went very public about how POC should have been cited for the Kearney incident (i.e., 'think of the children watching it on youtube' comment.
2) POC always struggles to say something good about Schmidt. Most of it is very impersonal for a very personal kind of guy which he makes comments on how big he is into detail.
3) Not one photo of a handshake, embrace or anything of POC & Schmidt after winning the 6Nations. This could be due to the fact that POC was really mad with him for telling him that Tommy O'Donnell was in the matchday 23 (which POC told TOD he was), and then TOD being dropped by Greek Feek (with no explaination as to why he was dropped out of the 23). Schmidt didn't even have the balls to drop TOD himself for Jordi Murphy.

There are 3 reasons for starters .....

I'd love to see your source for this one,is it another fantasy you've constructed from one line journalist put out there?

Did tommy tell you that himself or is common knowledge that only you seem to be prevy too??

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

SecretFly wrote:What the fuc-K is 'frak'?  Stop pansydising the Irish language please!  Frak is something them teen girls speak when they have a mental breakdown on twitter, ain't it???  'Oh LOL, Frak me, he's only DropDG, OMG.'

Get the box set of BattleStar Gallactica but stop watching after season 2,it really drops off in quality after that.

I'm fraking old enough to have watched the Original fraking Battlestar Galactica, sure wasn't Ben Cartwright starring in it and all when he lost his ranch to bankrupcy.  But I can't remember a fraking bad word spoken on it... must have been the re-jig yous are speaking about?

SecretFly wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

SecretFly wrote:What the fuc-K is 'frak'?  Stop pansydising the Irish language please!  Frak is something them teen girls speak when they have a mental breakdown on twitter, ain't it???  'Oh LOL, Frak me, he's only DropDG, OMG.'

Get the box set of BattleStar Gallactica but stop watching after season 2,it really drops off in quality after that.

I'm fraking old enough to have watched the Original fraking Battlestar Galactica, sure wasn't Ben Cartwright starring in it and all when he lost his ranch to bankrupcy.  But I can't remember a fraking bad word spoken on it... must have been the re-jig yous are speaking about?

Yep sorry should have specified,the old ones are a little before my time so I'd forgotten about them,there's a nice cameo appearance from the guy who played Apollo in the original series.

Sin é wrote:The comments are very considered and they come are published on the Monday (and from the looks of the photo in the airport in Dublin).

Just listen to what POC had to say after the win. Far more telling.

I agree Sin old boy - there's none so blind who will not see.

I recall people saying it was gossip that BOD and deccie fell out towards the end.

As long as Ireland are winning then O'Connell needs to be diplomatic but there are definitely mutterings of discontent in Munster about the selection policy. I heard a couple of the Ulster guys have struggled to deal with the expectation and pressure in the training camps.

Apparently if players turn up without learning the moves and plays then Schmidt sends them off the training pitch and doesn't consider them for selection. The Leinster guys are used to this approach but its a bit of a shock for guys from the other provinces.

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:The comments are very considered and they come are published on the Monday (and from the looks of the photo in the airport in Dublin).

Just listen to what POC had to say after the win. Far more telling.

I agree Sin old boy - there's none so blind who will not see.

I recall people saying it was gossip that BOD and deccie fell out towards the end.

As long as Ireland are winning then O'Connell needs to be diplomatic but there are definitely mutterings of discontent in Munster about the selection policy. I heard a couple of the Ulster guys have struggled to deal with the expectation and pressure in the training camps.

Apparently if players turn up without learning the moves and plays then Schmidt sends them off the training pitch and doesn't consider them for selection. The Leinster guys are used to this approach but its a bit of a shock for guys from the other provinces.

So it's building up to be a Ulster/Munster led mutiny at some point in the near distant future when they simply "can't take it no more"?

Oh maybe there is a lot of that going round.  Grumbles, moans, being mad some guys aren't getting picked and some 'boring' guys are.  Yeah, probably a bit of that bug going around in recent months.  

But what'da we do?  Tell Joe to ease up on the Trigonometry homework so that more players can feel at home with him? - or tell the groaners to actually knuckle down and get on with it - as Joe's ways just might make International heros out of them in the next year or so?  Some deeply cynical people might suggest something might be already stirring at that level when looking at how badly we did the biz against Argentina this month.  Joe seems bamboozled that the training was done, the homework seemed to be done but what transpired on the field didn't resemble what players seemed to promise they'd do in training.

The most dangerous angles on a story about disgruntled people in camp is the potential for a down tools, go-slow mutiny.  Afterall, ain't that's what was alleged to be happening in Kidney camp at times - Players laying below themselves and beneath the actual gameplans in order to execute a primary objective of dumping a coach who had lost their allegiance.

I said it already.  Ireland and WCs are dangerous territory.  There is always something that could pop up to kill momentum again.  Let's hope it's not a Paulie led anti homework revolution that kills it this time..... 

[quote="rodders"]

Sin é wrote:The comments are very considered and they come are published on the Monday (and from the looks of the photo in the airport in Dublin).

Just listen to what POC had to say after the win. Far more telling.

I agree Sin old boy - there's none so blind who will not see.

I recall people saying it was gossip that BOD and deccie fell out towards the end.

As long as Ireland are winning then O'Connell needs to be diplomatic but there are definitely mutterings of discontent in Munster about the selection policy. I heard a couple of the Ulster guys have struggled to deal with the expectation and pressure in the training camps.

Apparently if players turn up without learning the moves and plays then Schmidt sends them off the training pitch and doesn't consider them for selection. The Leinster guys are used to this approach but its a bit of a shock for guys from the other provinces.

Seriously? Why would they not have their homwork done? I played a couple of seasons of mickey mouse rugby League in Ireland and we all had print outs of the moves and learned them at home before training. Most of us being union players so needed the extra info to get up to speed. I refuse to believe that any player who is part of an Ireland squad would turn up without knowing the playbook.

By the way have no idea how I managed to quote myself in that last post but Im sure you get my drift.

just a missed "[" or "]" here or there Sub

Kind of schoolboy error Schmidt would leave a player out for .....

Just call me Tommy O'D

Tommy O'Dunce they call him in camp.

Lads you'd wanna hear JS starting the Anti-Munster chants at the B&I cup final.

I didn't think he'd have such a foul mouth and sharp tongue, but christ, people had to take their kids out of earshot.

And just another thing about Mr Headmaster Joe and his pedantic ways.

Number One:  Leinster players have two steps ahead of the other provincials - not one.  Yes, they recruited their Headmaster with his strict disciplinarian perfectionism.  But the players themselves wanted him and wanted that.  They wanted it.  He was headhunted - by players.  

Joe: "What if nobody wants to listen to me?  What if the younger guys don't want to take orders?"  
Sexton:  "We do that stuff. (the motivation - the kicking into line of slouchers)  You coach." - That was the meeting that sealed the deal.  Schmidt - worried about the appetite for his attention to detail by younger players.  A young player - saying he'd take care of that part.

Number Two: Leinster have two steps ahead of other provincals, not one.   The path to disciplin, and doing what you're told, and being ready to practice the homework, didn't begin with Schmidt at all.  Nope.  Before Teacher Joe there was Raving Loony Madman Cheika.  Ask some Leinster players who played under him what he was like???  Joe doesn't hold a candle to him.  Bernard Jackman felt totally humilated by the man.  Now there was a guy who wanted it his way or the highway.  

So when people talk of Leinster players getting a head start because they have adapted to Schmidt's ways.  No, Leinster players are getting the head start because their all out philosophy for the past half decade or so has been attention to detail in a ruthlessly unforgiving environment (Joe And Cheika).  Leinster were tired of losing.  Did the era of the disciplinarians pay dividends?  It surely did.

Winning is work, not just glory.  The boring and brutal behind the scenes stuff is required.  But let's not blame it all on Joe - this pursuit of bullish slavery to the system.

Mickado wrote:Lads you'd wanna hear JS starting the Anti-Munster chants at the B&I cup final.

I didn't think he'd have such a foul mouth and sharp tongue, but christ, people had to take their kids out of earshot.

Your father let you stay to listen, Mick? The divil.

SecretFly wrote:

Mickado wrote:Lads you'd wanna hear JS starting the Anti-Munster chants at the B&I cup final.

I didn't think he'd have such a foul mouth and sharp tongue, but christ, people had to take their kids out of earshot.

Your father let you stay to listen, Mick?  The divil.

Mickahaon?

SecretFly wrote:What the fuc-K is 'frak'?  Stop pansydising the Irish language please!  Frak is something them teen girls speak when they have a mental breakdown on twitter, ain't it???  'Oh LOL, Frak me, he's only DropDG, OMG.'

Actually it's originally from Battlestar Galactica. You'll have noticed the swear filter changes you 'fuc-K' to frak automatically when you don't employ those little grammatical tricks.

rodders wrote:As long as Ireland are winning then O'Connell needs to be diplomatic but there are definitely mutterings of discontent in Munster about the selection policy. I heard a couple of the Ulster guys have struggled to deal with the expectation and pressure in the training camps.

Apparently if players turn up without learning the moves and plays then Schmidt sends them off the training pitch and doesn't consider them for selection. The Leinster guys are used to this approach but its a bit of a shock for guys from the other provinces.

None of that sounds like a bad thing to me, to be perfectly honest. Test rugby is non-stop pressure and expectation- that'll be why Schmidt deliberately ramps it up in training? It all sounds like a massive dose of exactly what we need. You want players to work incredibly hard on learning their roles, you want intensity in training.

Notch wrote:

rodders wrote:As long as Ireland are winning then O'Connell needs to be diplomatic but there are definitely mutterings of discontent in Munster about the selection policy. I heard a couple of the Ulster guys have struggled to deal with the expectation and pressure in the training camps.

Apparently if players turn up without learning the moves and plays then Schmidt sends them off the training pitch and doesn't consider them for selection. The Leinster guys are used to this approach but its a bit of a shock for guys from the other provinces.

None of that sounds like a bad thing to me, to be perfectly honest. Test rugby is non-stop pressure and expectation- that'll be why Schmidt deliberately ramps it up in training? It all sounds like a massive dose of exactly what we need. You want players to work incredibly hard on learning their roles, you want intensity in training.

No I agree it's a good thing but as with any coaching regime there'll be winners and losers. Tall poppies and cork rebels need not apply....

Notch wrote:

SecretFly wrote:What the fuc-K is 'frak'?  Stop pansydising the Irish language please!  Frak is something them teen girls speak when they have a mental breakdown on twitter, ain't it???  'Oh LOL, Frak me, he's only DropDG, OMG.'

Actually it's originally from Battlestar Galactica. You'll have noticed the swear filter changes you 'fuc-K' to frak automatically when you don't employ those little grammatical tricks.

I'd prefer that the swear filter just insert 'fuc-k' where the bad word was  'Frak' looks very girlie to me in a manly rugby site. I can't help sneering at how off it looks.
It was actually funny last night when a mini World Incident took place in RTE studios during the WC coverage.  The panelists didn't know they were on air at one point and a few Fraks (I actually typed that one, it isn't the swear filter at work)  were issued.  That was funny enough.  But the hilarious bit was that after a break, the guys came back and Dunphy was forced to look at the camera and make a heartfelt apology for using the bad language.  It was laughable in it's cringworthy PC way.  And all the rest of us in homes and pubs laughing our heads off and liberally using the 'Fraks' when recalling how fraking Eamo was fraking caught out using fraking bad language on fraking RTE.

But onwards back to the rugby.