Ulster 2014/2015, Part 3

by **Notch** Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:58 pm

First topic message reminder :

Continue to discuss Ulsters lack of back row options and season in general

by neilthom7 Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:24 pm

Standulstermen wrote:
neilthom7 wrote:While not being as dangerous as being in the air, the weight of the human body if dropped while head is towards ground even if not falling from any height would all come down on the neck. As you can imagine the neck is not strong enough to take 14, 15 or whatever stone most players are and so there is the potential to break the neck leaving someone paralysed.
I should say I am not saying the length of the ban is correct here just explaining how it could be dangerous, I had something similar to this happen to me when trying to steal the ball at a ruck so I can't really be objective in the handling of these incidents.

What annoys me is that I have mentioned the gill incident already (and it's this season) and I can't find reference to a citing for him for a very similar tackle. So one guy gets a red and four weeks and (if I'm right about the no citing) one guy gets 10 minutes.

I am happy to be corrected here but if not the inconsistency is nothing short of disgraceful

Oh I absolutely agree Stand the inconsistency in the system is ridiculous it is kind of a lottery and it really shouldn't be like that

by neilthom7 Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:28 pm

Notch wrote:At this stage, you have to know that you cannot upend anyone in any way during a game of rugby. And, I think, that is right and good. It was at least a yellow and in this climate anything like that will be red. I do think there should be a distinction between upending a player and upending them and driving them into the ground. The second is much, much more dangerous than what actually happened.

The length of the ban... well sometimes it seems like the number of weeks you get banned for these things is based on dice rolls or coin tosses. But we can't complain about that either. Once you open yourself up to it, you are totally at the mercy of the system. McCloskey deserves a ban- more for his stupidity than for his actions- and hopefully he will learn. We have had far too many red cards recently, 4 in a calendar year is just way too much, and if this is what it takes for us to stop reckless splay so be it.

Note I say reckless, not dangerous. 3 out of 4 of those cards were just for stupid, reckless mistakes in the heat of the moment. But these are like any other brainfarts. They have to be eliminated from our game as assiduously as intercepted passes or kicks out on the full.

I agree we need to make sure we aren't putting ourselves in these positions. A couple of those bans were younger players so hopefully they will learn from it and move on, certainly Payne seems to have taken a lesson out of his last year.

by The Great Aukster Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:28 pm

Of the four reds - only the Fitzpatrick one was cast iron.

When McCloskey moved the player he still was in contact with the ground and Stuart attempted to put him down without dropping him - supposedly a key indicator. Red was harsh but unsurprising from Hodges who had a mare.

O'Connor's red was obviously a pure accident, no intent or malice. It wasn't even reckless so very questionable if it was even a penalty.

Payne is accused of being reckless because he was running at full speed to catch the ball. Should every player who runs at full speed be accused of being reckless if they happen to run into someone (and get away with it if they don't)? It was daft then and the lack of consistency since just underlines what a stupid decision it was.

by Standulstermen Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:26 pm

Don't think anyone was referring to the O'Connor incident Aukster. Court is the other red for the tip tackle on Toner. I thought it was red in truth although angry TC was a little unlucky in that the same tackle on a normal sized player wouldn't have looked as bad

by geoff999rugby Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:06 am

Of those 5 Reds

Fitzpatrick yes stupid got what he deserved
Court yes correct decision
Payne yes but it narks me that others have done worse since and stayed on the pitch
McCloskey yes but ban way too long should be 2 weeks only
O'Connor wasn't a Red

by Pete330v2 Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:52 am

McCloskey's ban is utterly ridiculous but indicative of a system that leaves us all scratching our heads. The inconsistencies are now something we have come to expect which in itself speaks volumes. Lets watch the games this weekend and count how many players clear out rucks by grabbing the opposing player by the neck/shoulders area and wrenching them around to flip them over. Something a lot more dangerous than what McCloskey did with his 'reckless' actions.

Ban the act of tackling as it's undoubtedly reckless!!!!!!!!

I see Shaun Edwards is looking for the choke tackle to be banned due to it being 'DANGEROUS'.....

by Standulstermen Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:35 am

I see the 4 week ban handed down actually comprises 4 weeks 5 days. Am I correct in saying when Cian Healy stamped on an English player they tried something like this and he was able to appeal and get it reduced?

by Chunky Norwich Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:45 am

I see Sky Sports have agreed to wander from their Saturday rugby slot just once this season. And are televising Ulster v Leinster.

Because Friday night is RUGBY NIGHT in Belfast right?

by Guest Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:48 am

And....

by Chunky Norwich Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:54 am

Munchkin wrote:And....

Have sky sports been forced to televise any other side outside of a Saturday?

Not on your nelly.

Friday niiiight is rugby night in Belfast.

Gerrymandered league.

by Pete330v2 Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:57 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:And....

Have sky sports been forced to televise any other side outside of a Saturday?

Not on your nelly.

Friday niiiight is rugby night in Belfast.

Gerrymandered league.

Your Point being? Or are you simply here to be peurile and childish as usual?

by Guest Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:57 am

Pete330v2 wrote:McCloskey's ban is utterly ridiculous but indicative of a system that leaves us all scratching our heads. The inconsistencies are now something we have come to expect which in itself speaks volumes. Lets watch the games this weekend and count how many players clear out rucks by grabbing the opposing player by the neck/shoulders area and wrenching them around to flip them over. Something a lot more dangerous than what McCloskey did with his 'reckless' actions.

Ban the act of tackling as it's undoubtedly reckless!!!!!!!!

I see Shaun Edwards is looking for the choke tackle to be banned due to it being 'DANGEROUS'.....

Welsh coach in mind games shocker!!! Very Happy

I agree, the length of ban is ridiculous. A low entry point of 4 weeks is then extended to 5 weeks, to set an example, and then reduced by 1 week for previous good conduct, but still amounts to a 5 week ban?!? I thought maybe a 2 week ban reduced to 1 week for previous good conduct, but the all Welsh panel decided to make things up too teach us a lesson....

by Guest Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:00 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:And....

Have sky sports been forced to televise any other side outside of a Saturday?

Not on your nelly.

Friday niiiight is rugby night in Belfast.

Gerrymandered league.

Aww, didums, it's just not fair Crying or Very sad

Have a hug Hug

by geoff999rugby Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:03 am

Each club negotiates with the TV provides with respect to when the games are televised.

As an FYI Ulster have played 4 home games on Saturday this year.
The Welsh play Thursday sometimes and often on Sunday because that is what S4C and BBC Wales want - blame them
Sky have been forced to do nothing they clearly are quite happy to show this game on Friday.

You persecution complex beggars belief

by Chunky Norwich Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:10 am

geoff999rugby wrote:Each club negotiates with the TV provides with respect to when the games are televised.

Really? That is news to me.

How do you explain this comment then >>>>>>

The Welsh play Thursday sometimes and often on Sunday because that is what S4C and BBC Wales want - blame them

Is it the clubs or is it the television broadcast deal?

by Guest Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:11 am

It's Rogers fault!!

by Chunky Norwich Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:15 am

Munchkin wrote:It's Rogers fault!!

It appears that it actually is in this case.

by marty2086 Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:23 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:And....

Have sky sports been forced to televise any other side outside of a Saturday?

Not on your nelly.

Friday niiiight is rugby night in Belfast.

Gerrymandered league.

As you've said, Friday night is rugby night in Belfast, ~~the Kingspan~~ Ravenhill at its best, one of the best atmospheres. Why not showcase this? After all its in Skys interest and basic marketing Erm

by Guest Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:24 am

Chunky, does Roger not sign off the deal after agreeing fixtures with RRW? I do think if anyone is at fault, it's S4C, as it is they who dictate when games will be televised. If any Region has an axe to grind, I think it's the Dragons as it is they that have taken the brunt of Sunday games. Serious question; did the Dragons opt for more Sunday games?

by Chunky Norwich Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:27 am

Munchkin wrote:Chunky, does Roger not sign off the deal after agreeing fixtures with RRW? I do think if anyone is at fault, it's S4C, as it is they who dictate when games will be televised. If any Region has an axe to grind, I think it's the Dragons as the have taken the brunt of Sunday games. Serious question; did the Dragons opt for more Sunday games?

I quite agree with that. But I don't think the clubs agree any of the fixtures before hand. It's all down to the Union reps. My intention wasn't to drag the ills of Welsh rugby into this thread. My intention was to highlight the "Ulster get what they want 95% of the time" feeling that exists among many Welsh regional supporters.

by Guest Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:35 am

I think we do, Chunky, but not because we demand it, and not because of any IRFU pressure on BBC/SKY. We are extremely fortunate to have BBC Northern Ireland on our side, and BBC NI benefit from a great product as Friday night rugby really works for them as well. SKY simply wouldn't broadcast a Friday game simply to suit Ulster/Leinster. They have done so with viewing figures/game attendance in mind.

by Don Alfonso Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:40 am

Chunky Norwich wrote: My intention wasn't to drag the ills of Welsh rugby into this thread. My intention was to highlight the "Ulster get what they want 95% of the time" feeling that exists among many Welsh regional supporters.

As it should be. If only we could stop bent Welsh dsicplinary panels banning our players so that they can't line out against the regions, we'd be all set.

Honestly, you allow some some teams the privilege of playing in your league. against your teams, and all their supporters do is moan.

by Don Alfonso Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:41 am

Does Ulster get more money if Sky televises one of our games?

by Chunky Norwich Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:44 am

Munchkin wrote:I think we do, Chunky, but not because we demand it, and not because of any IRFU pressure on BBC/SKY. We are extremely fortunate to have BBC Northern Ireland on our side, and BBC NI benefit from a great product as Friday night rugby really works for them as well. SKY simply wouldn't broadcast a Friday game simply to suit Ulster/Leinster. They have done so with viewing figures/game attendance in mind.

So why didn't they choose one of the other four Saturday fixtures to televise? The whole fixtures on that weekend seem different to all other weekends.

by marty2086 Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:51 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:I think we do, Chunky, but not because we demand it, and not because of any IRFU pressure on BBC/SKY. We are extremely fortunate to have BBC Northern Ireland on our side, and BBC NI benefit from a great product as Friday night rugby really works for them as well. SKY simply wouldn't broadcast a Friday game simply to suit Ulster/Leinster. They have done so with viewing figures/game attendance in mind.

So why didn't they choose one of the other four Saturday fixtures to televise? The whole fixtures on that weekend seem different to all other weekends.

What exactly is your issue with it? So their showing it on a Friday night, one of the biggest fixtures in the league, an Irish derby between two teams going for the play offs

by neilthom7 Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:54 am

I can tell you all that what Ulster or Leinster want figures very very little into what Sky chooses to schedule. A number of factors are taken into account, things such as crowd atmosphere, what clubs would prefer (a little), whats the best use of their tv schedule, whats going to get the best viewership, what competition channels are showing etc etc.
This game is one of the bigger ones that Sky will show and for those games they want the best viewership they can possibly get as then they can then talk the biggest viewership numbers which attracts sponsors to pay more money for adverts or get people to watch the league and sign up for subscriptions

by Guest Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:54 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:I think we do, Chunky, but not because we demand it, and not because of any IRFU pressure on BBC/SKY. We are extremely fortunate to have BBC Northern Ireland on our side, and BBC NI benefit from a great product as Friday night rugby really works for them as well. SKY simply wouldn't broadcast a Friday game simply to suit Ulster/Leinster. They have done so with viewing figures/game attendance in mind.

So why didn't they choose one of the other four Saturday fixtures to televise? The whole fixtures on that weekend seem different to all other weekends.

It could be that SKY think they will get more viewing figures on an Ulster v Leinster game, on a Friday, but then BBC NI have all Ulster's home games, and so SKY might not have a choice but to broadcast that particular game on a Friday, as it is BBC NI which dictates.

by Chunky Norwich Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:55 am

marty2086 wrote:
What exactly is your issue with it? So their showing it on a Friday night, one of the biggest fixtures in the league, an Irish derby between two teams going for the play offs

It's a question more than an issue. If they regularly wavered from their Saturday night slot and televised the most mouthwatering fixture each weekend I wouldn't be on this thread. But they don't seem to have any other non-Saturday fixture broadcast in the entire season apart from round 20. This then means that s4c have the saturday night slot. It may of course be because it is the double header at the millennium stadium that weekend.

I just wondered why they didn't move the sky televised game to Saturday. Like they appear to do for most other teams.

by marty2086 Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:01 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
What exactly is your issue with it? So their showing it on a Friday night, one of the biggest fixtures in the league, an Irish derby between two teams going for the play offs

It's a question more than an issue. If they regularly wavered from their Saturday night slot and televised the most mouthwatering fixture each weekend I wouldn't be on this thread. But they don't seem to have any other non-Saturday fixture broadcast in the entire season apart from round 20. This then means that s4c have the saturday night slot. It may of course be because it is the double header at the millennium stadium that weekend.

I just wondered why they didn't move the sky televised game to Saturday. Like they appear to do for most other teams.

They didn't do it earlier in the season for Ulster when they played Glasgow

by geoff999rugby Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:02 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:Each club negotiates with the TV provides with respect to when the games are televised.

Really? That is news to me.

How do you explain this comment then >>>>>>

The Welsh play Thursday sometimes and often on Sunday because that is what S4C and BBC Wales want - blame them

Is it the clubs or is it the television broadcast deal?

It is a negotiation and as Neilthorn7 indicates (he has a role somewhere in Sky) the TV companies have the whip hand.
The club can ask, plead etc but in the end the TV company decide.
As I said before we have had 4 home games this year out of a total of 14 that is roughly 29% so it is not even true we always play on Fridays
Ulster example have been able to persuade BBCNI to switch Friday kick offs from 7.05 to 7.35 to ensure more people can make it after work.
In Wales S4C clearly like Sunday kick offs, in Ulster BBC NI want Friday kick offs - no conspiracy.

If you dont like what is going on in Wales lobby your Welsh language channel

by Chunky Norwich Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:10 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:
As I said before we have had 4 home games this year out of a total of 14 that is roughly 29% so it is not even true we always play on Fridays

This is about league games. Ulster have 10 home fixtures in the league scheduled/played so far.

8 out of 10 of those have been at the same time - Friday 7.35pm

by marty2086 Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:20 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:
As I said before we have had 4 home games this year out of a total of 14 that is roughly 29% so it is not even true we always play on Fridays

This is about league games. Ulster have 10 home fixtures in the league scheduled/played so far.

8 out of 10 of those have been at the same time - Friday 7.35pm

So what your saying is Ulster are consistent?

by Guest Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:40 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:
As I said before we have had 4 home games this year out of a total of 14 that is roughly 29% so it is not even true we always play on Fridays

This is about league games. Ulster have 10 home fixtures in the league scheduled/played so far.

8 out of 10 of those have been at the same time - Friday 7.35pm

That has probably more to do with the fact that we are the only Province which BBC NI covers. We are not competing for broadcasting slots with the other Provinces. If SKY were to completely take over the league, then that would likely change.

Geoff is right. If the Regions fans have an issue with the schedule, then they must lobby the RRW, and SC4 for change. The issue that some of the fans have is not with any of the Provinces, or any of their broadcasters, but much closer to home.

by geoff999rugby Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:42 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:
As I said before we have had 4 home games this year out of a total of 14 that is roughly 29% so it is not even true we always play on Fridays

This is about league games. Ulster have 10 home fixtures in the league scheduled/played so far.

8 out of 10 of those have been at the same time - Friday 7.35pm

To which the answer is So ******* what

You really cant handle the fact that Ulster and its most frequent TV provide agree when games are best played.
That has nothing to do with a conspiracy.
Welsh rugby is a clusterf**k and Irish rugby is well managed and organised and it really bugs you
Stop whinging about Irish rugby doing things right and get your own house in order

by Chunky Norwich Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:48 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:

To which the answer is So ******* what

Egg Sactly.

The Irish care not one Frak about how much of an advantage they are at. And will do their utmost to hide it.

by Guest Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:56 pm

We are at an advantage because we are well managed. Not because we have some sort of unfair advantage.

by marty2086 Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:00 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:

To which the answer is So ******* what

Egg Sactly.

The Irish care not one Frak about how much of an advantage they are at. And will do their utmost to hide it.

So two Irish provinces playing each other and that gives them an advantage over the Welsh Headscratch

by MrsP Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:35 pm

What advantage?

Would you like all your games on a Friday night? Or do you want each team to play equal numbers of Friday night? Why is playing on a Friday night an advantage? Dragons do seem to have got a lot of Sunday matches so maybe Sunday is Rugby day at Rodney Parade?

by Pete330v2 Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:38 pm

Can we not disengage this twit and get back to discussing Ulster?

by Chunky Norwich Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:40 pm

Pull the other one. You know that's Ulster's time every weekend for rugby. Settled time. everybody knows what their doing for the rest of the weekend. Routine's worked out. All done for you.

Other teams don't know whether there' coming or going with fixtures all over the place.

If you just, for once, acknowledged that this helps your fans and players prepare and plan, then you'd be a lot more likeable as a fanbase.

by Guest Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:43 pm

Nobody likes us Crying or Very sad

by MrsP Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:46 pm

So Dragons should have a similar advantage in playing on a Sunday?

I agree that it is great to have a settled time but I disagree that we have done anything underhand to get there. We are the only team that BBCNI have to schedule for and the Friday night slot suits them and us. But you think we should fight to have to play at other times because you don't like it?

And now we have come to the crux of the matter. You don't like Ulster.

Who'd have guessed?

by **Notch** Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:34 pm

It's good having games on a Friday. S4C and BBC Wales should give it a go. Sky Sports are even getting in on the action. But I understand the inconvenience, I'm mightily outraged the Pro12 final isn't on a Friday night... now who do we speak to about getting that changed? Whistle

by Standulstermen Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:07 pm

This boy really is some special biscuits

by marty2086 Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:21 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:Pull the other one. You know that's Ulster's time every weekend for rugby. Settled time. everybody knows what their doing for the rest of the weekend. Routine's worked out. All done for you.

Other teams don't know whether there' coming or going with fixtures all over the place.

If you just, for once, acknowledged that this helps your fans and players prepare and plan, then you'd be a lot more likeable as a fanbase.

Ulster and its fans will have to do without your affection then broken

by marty2086 Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:28 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31623859

This baffles me, on the back of McCloskeys ban, Nakarawa has received a 3 week ban for what was some serious foul play.

After a collapsed scrum he launched himself head first at the Ospreys prop who was still planted into the ground with the back of his neck exposed

by MrsP Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:29 pm

Devastated!

Crying or Very sad

And he hid it so well too!

by **Notch** Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:43 pm

marty2086 wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31623859

This baffles me, on the back of McCloskeys ban, Nakarawa has received a 3 week ban for what was some serious foul play.

After a collapsed scrum he launched himself head first at the Ospreys prop who was still planted into the ground with the back of his neck exposed

Don't think too hard about it. You won't find consistency.

by **George Carlin** Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:24 pm

Notch wrote:
marty2086 wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31623859

This baffles me, on the back of McCloskeys ban, Nakarawa has received a 3 week ban for what was some serious foul play.

After a collapsed scrum he launched himself head first at the Ospreys prop who was still planted into the ground with the back of his neck exposed

Don't think too hard about it. You won't find consistency.

Just a couple of facts about this, which it may be instructive to group together:

1. the BBC happens to mentioned that disciplinary committee was "all-Irish, chaired by Pat Barriscale".
2. Pat Barriscale is from Limerick.
3. the first of the 3 games Naka will miss is against Munster.
4. the final game Naka will miss is against Leinster.

So, obviously, no rats to be smelled there.
Ulster 2014/2015, Part 3 - Page 13 Sherlo11

Ulster 2014/2015, Part 3 - Page 13 Sherlo11

by **Notch** Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:30 pm

George Carlin wrote:
Notch wrote:
marty2086 wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31623859

This baffles me, on the back of McCloskeys ban, Nakarawa has received a 3 week ban for what was some serious foul play.

After a collapsed scrum he launched himself head first at the Ospreys prop who was still planted into the ground with the back of his neck exposed

Don't think too hard about it. You won't find consistency.

Just a couple of facts about this, which it may be instructive to group together:

1. the BBC happens to mentioned that disciplinary committee was "all-Irish, chaired by Pat Barriscale".
2. Pat Barriscale is from Limerick.
3. the first of the 3 games Naka will miss is against Munster.
4. the final game Naka will miss is against Leinster.

So, obviously, no rats to be smelled there.

Geoff made the same points about McCloskeys ban which was given by an all Welsh panel and covers games against the Scarlets, Dragons and Cardiff. Personally I think both are reaching. Your entire argument is based on assuming bias without any evidence, which is exactly the same crapola peddled by the likes of our friend Chunky.

The extra week for McCloskey makes zero difference in that he misses the same number of games as Nakarawa. Nakarawa was given three weeks including two off-weeks = 5 weeks, 3 games. McCloskey was given four weeks including one off week = 5 weeks, 3 games. Now thats stupid.

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