This is why we love Wayne Barnes.

First topic message reminder :

Review of Wayne Barnes v Ireland 2015:

https://youtu.be/IEuXfewLcuY

Ireland lose again with Barnes as ref. Its getting ridiculous now. 3 wins in the last 13 games v Barnes. Really hope we don't get him for any WC games.

Joe Schmidt also has issues with Barnes:

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/joe-schmidt-has-issues-with-wayne-barnes-over-scrum-calls-1.2145742

Graham Henry also suspects something isnt quite right about Barnes' lopsided officiating too

http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/07/31/graham-henrys-final-word-on-suspected-match-fixing-in-rwc-2007/

No 7&1/2 wrote:Who do you want Schmidt replaced with then Guns. He's guaranteeing you'll never reach the pinacle of the game. You guys can't be happy with that. Isn't he already developing NZ lads to take over from the Irish born and bread? Seems a clear strategy to make you the NZ B team!

We have only lost 3 games under Schmidt. By contrast we have only won 3 under Barnes watch. I know who is the real problem is and he isnt from New Zealand he is from England and went to school in Wales.

I wouldnt be surprised at all if Ireland are given Barnes as ref in the 1/4 finals.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Wow, no wonder you lost against New Zealand. The only reason they stood a chance was your head coach deliberately throwing the game!

So Tiger, what do you think of Barnes training with England when he isn't being a barrister specialising in corruption? He must know all the tricks

It's clear as day Guns, he's got the majority of you supporting him and then threw the game against NZ, and is taking you down a path of playing his countrymen and destroying your proud heritage. Schmidt is a sleeper agent. You'll never win against NZ he won't let you. The guys a mercenary sent to destroy Irish rugby!

It's true Sin he's covering for Schmidt as we speak. Playing the long game.

I just found these two quotes

Referee Wayne Barnes was at his schoolmasterly best throughout the game; his early pedantry for accessible ball at ruck time providing a game of high quality once the teams reacted to his policing of the breakdown.

In the final analysis, Wales were deserved winners, but again, returning to the man in the middle, Barnes, the game proved what an amazing spectacle rugby can be when players are prevented from killing ball at the ruck, as Ireland mounted wave after wave of attack in the final quarter, one such attack resulting in an astonishing 32 phases of play.

I don't have a view on this game as such. From what I have seen in the past I think games policed by Barnes tend to be more flowing, although he isnt always great when things go badly wrong.

The quotes are from some ex player called Richard Hill

GunsGerms wrote: We have only lost 3 games under Schmidt. By contrast we have only won 3 under Barnes watch.

Australia and New Zealand 2013 AIs, England 2014 6N, Wales 2015 6N.

Schmidt has had 3 big away games and 1 win. Not great in 23 months as coach and no southern hemisphere tour in that time. Please don't count Argentina in June as a big tour.

Have you looked at other referees and Irelands results - surely one ref must be in charge when Ireland have won more than their winning average? Does that mean they are biased in favour of Ireland? Can you do a list of wins/ losses and referees in charge?

MichaelT wrote: Can you do a list of wins/ losses and referees in charge?

Can you?

Is there a database that does?

It would be interesting reading I'm sure - for all folks. Maybe new threads of suspicion would crop up all over the place.

SecretFly wrote:

MichaelT wrote: Can you do a list of wins/ losses and referees in charge?

Can you?

Is there a database that does?

It would be interesting reading I'm sure - for all folks.  Maybe new threads of suspicion would crop up all over the place.  

1 - probably, but I'm neither prosecution nor defence. Jury like status I have. Prove the allegation to me.

2 - don't know

3 - I am quite interested in reading Steve Walsh on England results, and I do love a good stats list. Might change my answer on 1 to might do, but it would take time and I am supposed to be at work.

MichaelT wrote:

GunsGerms wrote: We have only lost 3 games under Schmidt. By contrast we have only won 3 under Barnes watch.

Australia and New Zealand 2013 AIs, England 2014 6N, Wales 2015 6N.

Schmidt has had 3 big away games and 1 win. Not great in 23 months as coach and no southern hemisphere tour in that time. Please don't count Argentina in June as a big tour.

Have you looked at other referees and Irelands results - surely one ref must be in charge when Ireland have won more than their winning average? Does that mean they are biased in favour of Ireland? Can you do a list of wins/ losses and referees in charge?

Balls.ie did a comparison. Maybe you could do the research yourself. Yes it is 4 losses.

Not great? Id say it is a pretty decent record. You dont rise to 3rd in the world on the back of a "not great" record. Haha!!

This is possibly the saddest thread in 606v2 history....................and with some of the Welsh boys on here, that's saying something.

MichaelT wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

MichaelT wrote: Can you do a list of wins/ losses and referees in charge?

Can you?

Is there a database that does?

It would be interesting reading I'm sure - for all folks.  Maybe new threads of suspicion would crop up all over the place.  

1 - probably, but I'm neither prosecution nor defence. Jury like status I have. Prove the allegation to me.

2 - don't know

3 - I am quite interested in reading Steve Walsh on England results, and I do love a good stats list. Might change my answer on 1 to might do, but it would take time and I am supposed to be at work.

No I'm actually being serious. Does anyone here actually know if there is a site that does that kind of list - refs/games/scores?

I know there are the usual team records..... but is there a more accessible place where specific reffing histories are outlined in brief, where you can deduce trends quickly without having to trawl through acreas of stuff to find out who reffed each game?

MissBlennerhassett wrote:This is possibly the saddest thread in 606v2 history....................and with some of the Welsh boys on here, that's saying something.

It's one of the few threads functioning as meant though, Blenner.  I mean there are a lot of ghost-town threads circling it with a comment a day or a comment a week.  Even the Match threads for the weekend are doing slow slow biz.

So at least controversy proves most popular once more.

lostinwales wrote:I just found these two quotes

Referee Wayne Barnes was at his schoolmasterly best throughout the game; his early pedantry for accessible ball at ruck time providing a game of high quality once the teams reacted to his policing of the breakdown.

In the final analysis, Wales were deserved winners, but again, returning to the man in the middle, Barnes, the game proved what an amazing spectacle rugby can be when players are prevented from killing ball at the ruck, as Ireland mounted wave after wave of attack in the final quarter, one such attack resulting in an astonishing 32 phases of play.

I don't have a view on this game as such. From what I have seen in the past I think games policed by Barnes tend to be more flowing, although he isnt always great when things go badly wrong.

The quotes are from some ex player called Richard Hill

How could they be flowing when there are so many penalties & yellow cards given out?

My view is that the refs seem to be told not to give out more than about 25 penalties per game by World Rugby - Barnes gave them all out in the first half then had to mind his credit at the end so it became a free-for-all.

Didn't Ireland beat France a few weeks back with Barnes as ref?

There's some seriously bitter posters on this thread. Rather than blaming Barnes maybe you should concentrate on Ireland's inability to break down Wales?

GunsGerms wrote:

MichaelT wrote:

GunsGerms wrote: We have only lost 3 games under Schmidt. By contrast we have only won 3 under Barnes watch.

Australia and New Zealand 2013 AIs, England 2014 6N, Wales 2015 6N.

Schmidt has had 3 big away games and 1 win. Not great in 23 months as coach and no southern hemisphere tour in that time. Please don't count Argentina in June as a big tour.

Have you looked at other referees and Irelands results - surely one ref must be in charge when Ireland have won more than their winning average? Does that mean they are biased in favour of Ireland? Can you do a list of wins/ losses and referees in charge?

Balls.ie did a comparison. Maybe you could do the research yourself. Yes it is 4 losses.

Not great? Id say it is a pretty decent record. You dont rise to 3rd in the world on the back of a "not great" record. Haha!!

No I won't do the research. I don't believe referees influence a team winning or losing. You win when you deserve to, and - guess what - lose when you deserve to.

Haha!!!??? How mature. You are right though - you don't rise to 3rd on a not great record. Never said you did. I said his away record in big games is not great, especially as he is touted as the best coach in the world.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Didn't Ireland beat France a few weeks back with Barnes as ref?

There's some seriously bitter posters on this thread. Rather than blaming Barnes maybe you should concentrate on Ireland's inability to break down Wales?

It suited England that Ireland beat France

Yea you're right Sin, bloody hate the French.

MichaelT wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

MichaelT wrote:

GunsGerms wrote: We have only lost 3 games under Schmidt. By contrast we have only won 3 under Barnes watch.

Australia and New Zealand 2013 AIs, England 2014 6N, Wales 2015 6N.

Schmidt has had 3 big away games and 1 win. Not great in 23 months as coach and no southern hemisphere tour in that time. Please don't count Argentina in June as a big tour.

Have you looked at other referees and Irelands results - surely one ref must be in charge when Ireland have won more than their winning average? Does that mean they are biased in favour of Ireland? Can you do a list of wins/ losses and referees in charge?

Balls.ie did a comparison. Maybe you could do the research yourself. Yes it is 4 losses.

Not great? Id say it is a pretty decent record. You dont rise to 3rd in the world on the back of a "not great" record. Haha!!

No I won't do the research. I don't believe referees influence a team winning or losing. You win when you deserve to, and - guess what - lose when you deserve to.

Haha!!!??? How mature. You are right though - you don't rise to 3rd on a not great record. Never said you did. I said his away record in big games is not great, especially as he is touted as the best coach in the world.

Haha.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Yea you're right Sin, bloody hate the French.

Nothing to do with hate, its to do with England winning the 6Ns and Wayne Barnes' employers getting first prize and even more cash.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Didn't Ireland beat France a few weeks back with Barnes as ref?

There's some seriously bitter posters on this thread. Rather than blaming Barnes maybe you should concentrate on Ireland's inability to break down Wales?

Well Gatland is having a bit of a belated one with the Adam Jones affair.

Imagine the uproar if this was a Welshman or Englishman complaining about the ref!

It's okay for the Irish to moan at the ref though!

Never hear complaints about the ref when Ireland win though do you?

GunsGerms wrote: Haha.

Touché.

Secretfly - ref appointments, only goes back to 2013 but you can filter per ref per team. Does bring them up as touch judges as well mind.

Bring back Rollaind, great French Ref

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Didn't Ireland beat France a few weeks back with Barnes as ref?

There's some seriously bitter posters on this thread. Rather than blaming Barnes maybe you should concentrate on Ireland's inability to break down Wales?

I know sarge. If only Ireland were as good an attacking team as England, they might have actually won and actually managed to score an official try (rumour has it that it was Heaslip that collapsed that maul).

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Didn't Ireland beat France a few weeks back with Barnes as ref?

There's some seriously bitter posters on this thread. Rather than blaming Barnes maybe you should concentrate on Ireland's inability to break down Wales?

How is that going to be beneficial to anybody on here?

beshocked wrote: Imagine the uproar if this was a Welshman or Englishman complaining about the ref!

It's okay for the Irish to moan at the ref though!

Never hear complaints about the ref when Ireland win though do you?

Why the hell would someone moan about a ref when they win????  They might have niggles about certain interpretations but nope, beshocked, you know for a fact that the losing side has first rights to ref complaints.

As for the "It's Okay" bit - well here you are and a host of other challengers proving it's not true.  The Irish have no rights to moan - and people are getting pretty darn chippy about it continuing to be bloody frank about it.  It's not on, say a few.  It's downright bothersome!

Relax folks.  It's called the Tension Before the Storm.  Enjoy the feelings of annoyance and irritation. It means you're emotionally invested in the experience

Sin é wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Yea you're right Sin, bloody hate the French.

Nothing to do with hate, its to do with England winning the 6Ns and Wayne Barnes' employers getting first prize and even more cash.

Surely we'd have preferred France to have beaten Ireland? Ireland were clearly the strongest team along with England, going into the 6N.

As it stands I'd say that Ireland are slight favourites going into the final match.

MichaelT wrote:

GunsGerms wrote: Haha.

Touché.

Secretfly - ref appointments, only goes back to 2013 but you can filter per ref per team. Does bring them up as touch judges as well mind.

Thanks Michael

The Saint wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Didn't Ireland beat France a few weeks back with Barnes as ref?

There's some seriously bitter posters on this thread. Rather than blaming Barnes maybe you should concentrate on Ireland's inability to break down Wales?

I know sarge. If only Ireland were as good an attacking team as England, they might have actually won and actually managed to score an official try (rumour has it that it was Heaslip that collapsed that maul).

It was. Maybe he had a flashback to Papé accidentally kneeing him and fell over again.

Wan't it Barnes and the ball boy debacle for Mike Phillip's try a couple of years ago. Now that was a tad unfortunate!!

It's about time someone came along who was man enough to ref the game himself and not turn a blind eye to all the Irish cheating. Let us all salute brave Wayne Barnes!

beshocked wrote: Imagine the uproar if this was a Welshman or Englishman complaining about the ref!

It's okay for the Irish to moan at the ref though!

Never hear complaints about the ref when Ireland win though do you?

I think you do hear comments such as 'the ref was awful' when we do win as well - usually in that situation he has been awful to both teams. You can tolerate that - its when the refing is one sided it is a serious problem.

The problem is (with the Welsh anyway) is that every time Ireland win, its because the ref favoured them.  

Munster lost v. Ospreys a few weeks ago. The ref awarded 13 penalties against Munster and 6 against the Ospreys. There were no complaints about the referee from me.

Sin é wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Yea you're right Sin, bloody hate the French.

Nothing to do with hate, its to do with England winning the 6Ns and Wayne Barnes' employers getting first prize and even more cash.

It is a little odd that Wayne Barnes was drafted in late for this game because Steve Walsh had "business commitments". The exact same thing happened in 2009 when Ireland played Wales for the grand slam. Pretty odd coincidence.

But there was from other Irish, Sin. Have you not payed attention to LDs posts on here?

The Saint wrote:But there was from other Irish, Sin. Have you not payed attention to LDs posts on here?

I've certainly paid attention to them when he was suggesting Irish refs get paid to throw games by their employers.

The deja vu is humourous considering this present thread

I've got some news for the conspiracy theorists (I) We all moan about refs etc. (II) None of the refs are biased, they have off days like the players but they are not biased. Maybe Rollaind is the exception

The only time we truly were cheated was by that ballboy ..and Phillips and his mate.

Of course, the Ballboy DID operate within the parameters of the IRB Cheat Designated Bypass Allowance Scheme 3.6.9.
Therefore it is forbidden to call said Ballboy a Cheat because he might have a tendancy to cry and run for yonder mother's protective frying pan.

See, they're all protected by the bloody convoluted law.

Fly - it would have been a hollow victory of BOD hadn't knocked on clearly when Ireland scored - Same as Scotland's try this year - Does the Poopie really even itself out - I'm not sure

"Sir Gawain of Barnes. Well known Welsh nephew of English King Arthur, and slayer of the gaelic hordes". History repeating itself!

Rubyguby can't argue with that. Rolland was one of the worst refs around. Far worse and much more egoistical than Barnes.



Surprisingly Barnes had nothing to do with the notorious ball incident in 2011.

RubyGuby wrote:Fly - it would have been a hollow victory of BOD hadn't knocked on clearly when Ireland scored - Same as Scotland's try this year - Does the Poopie really even itself out - I'm not sure

No, Ruby. It'll take a lifetime and a half before a ballboy ever assists a try again. We were all privileged to have witnessed it live.

RubyGuby wrote:I've got some news for the conspiracy theorists (I) We all moan about refs etc. (II) None of the refs are biased, they have off days like the players but they are not biased. Maybe Rollaind is the exception

Ah, but Rolland didn't have an off day - his call was correct.

Cheated isnt a word I would use. However, Barnes consistently penalises Ireland for things he doesnt penalise our opposition for. There is a long history of this. Whether this is down to bias planned or otherwise or just being a really poor ref doesnt really matter because its impossible to acertain. However, the record of dodgy results and bizarre or skewed decisions is there for all to see.

Such is the extent of his inconsistent approach our win/loss record is dramatically below our average when he refs and therefore I think his apointment to Ireland games is worth debating particularly when his own nation stands to gain so much from Ireland's loss. Personally I dont see him as fit to referee such high profile games and I have seen nothing in this thread anyway to convince me otherwise.

beshocked wrote:Rubyguby can't argue with that. Rolland was one of the worst refs around. Far worse and much more egoistical than Barnes.



Surprisingly Barnes had nothing to do with the notorious ball incident in 2011.

Oh be jeepers! The dastardly English are allowed say that and we're not allowed have a nice thread about Barnes??? Double standards folks! I'm surprised beshocked would give up the moral highground so rapidly. And him winning the war and all.

Lol I can't believe the so many on here are still biting.

secretfly when have I ever had the moral highground?

When did I say you are not allowed a thread on Barnes?

sorry beshocked... I forgot

As leftshoulder says, there is too much bite. We're inundated with biters in this pool. It's like a Piranha bath.

It's only meant to be a bubble one..... like all the other Ref centric threads of the past.

I dont get it with this biting thing. Why bother saying something if you dont believe it? Its a forum for debate so people reply no matter. All it ll end up doing will make the site quieter as people wont be bothered.

No 7&1/2 wrote:I dont get it with this biting thing. Why bother saying something if you dont believe it? Its a forum for debate so people reply no matter. All it ll end up doing will make the site quieter as people wont be bothered.

Its something people say when they dont have an opinion or cant think of anything better to contribute.

Sin é wrote:

beshocked wrote: Imagine the uproar if this was a Welshman or Englishman complaining about the ref!

It's okay for the Irish to moan at the ref though!

Never hear complaints about the ref when Ireland win though do you?

I think you do hear comments such as 'the ref was awful' when we do win as well - usually in that situation he has been awful to both teams. You can tolerate that - its when the refing is one sided it is a serious problem.

The problem is (with the Welsh anyway) is that every time Ireland win, its because the ref favoured them.  

Munster lost v. Ospreys a few weeks ago. The ref awarded 13 penalties against Munster and 6 against the Ospreys. There were no complaints about the referee from me.

No of course you didn't complain as it was a MUNSTERMAN, who reffed the game, Ospreys supporters did when he patently got a YELLOW CARD WRONG, and you were totally outplayed, you would have looked even more ridiculous than you do at the minute if you had.