Wales v Australia, 5 November

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WALES v AUSTRALIA  
5 November 2016
KO: 14:30 GMT
Principality Stadium, Cardiff

Live on BBC Sports

Referee: Craig Joubert (South Africa)
Assistant Referees: Jérôme Garcès (France), Federico Anselmi (Argentina)
TMO: Simon McDowell (Ireland)

A. Head to Head

39 Played 39
10 Won 28
1 Drawn 1
28 Lost 10
596 Points 912

B. Recent Form

10 October 2015:
Twickenham Stadium
15 – 6 to Australia
2015 Rugby World Cup Pool A

8 November 2014:
Millennium Stadium
28 – 33 to Australia
2014 Autumn International

30 November 2013:
Millennium Stadium
26 – 30 to Australia
2013 Autumn International

1 December 2012:
Millennium Stadium
12 – 14 to Australia
2012 Autumn International

23 June 2012:
Sydney Football Stadium
20 – 19 to Australia
Welsh Tour of Australia

16 June 2012:
Etihad Stadium
25 – 23 to Australia
Welsh Tour of Australia

9 June 2012:
Suncorp Stadium
27 – 19 to Australia
Welsh Tour of Australia

3 December 2011:
Millennium Stadium
18 – 24 to Australia
2011 Autumn International

C. Teams


WALES 

15 Leigh Halfpenny, 14 Alex Cuthbert, 13 Jonathan Davies, 12 Jamie Roberts, 11 George North, 10 Dan Biggar, 9 Rhys Webb, 8 Ross Moriarty, 7 Justin Tipuric, 6 Dan Lydiate, 5 Luke Charteris, 4 Bradley Davies, 3 Samson Le, 2 Ken Owens, 1 Gethin Jenkins

Replacements: 16 Scott Baldwin, 17 Nicky Smith, 18 Tomas Francis, 19 Cory Hill, 20 James King, 21 Gareth Davies, 22 Sam Davies, 23 Hallam Amos

AUSTRALIA  

15 Israel Folau, 14 Dane Haylett-Petty, 13 Tevita Kuridrani, 12 Reece Hodge, 11 Henry Speight, 10 Bernard Foley, 9 Nick Phipps, 8 Lopeti Timani, 7 Michael Hooper, 6 David Pocock, 5 Adam Coleman, 4 Rory Arnold, 3 Sekope Kepu, 2 Stephen Moore (c), 1 Scott Sio

Replacements: 16 Tolu Latu, 17 James Slipper, 18 Allan Alaalatoa, 19 Rob Simmons, 20 Scott Fardy, 21 Nick Frisby, 22 Quade Cooper, 23 Sefa Naivalu

In light of Ireland's magnificent performance in Chicago resign now Howley, you complete and utter waste of space and take your fellow comedy coaches with you.You came too late and have stayed too long.

exile jack wrote:In light of Ireland's magnificent performance in Chicago resign now Howley, you complete and utter waste of space and take your fellow comedy coaches with you.You came too late and have stayed too long.

I couldn't agree more

Make the Welsh players watch that magnificent Ireland performance until they collapse with fatigue and when they wake up make them watch it again and again.

just watched howler post match…i reckon he spends more time getting trained how to spin this shoite than he does on coaching his side, that and he must be blind.

This is my favorite bit on Cuthbert and North swapping wings:

"They started at 11 and 14 as usual in terms of their numbers because we didn’t want to give anything away in terms of their position"

Yep, we've really got those Wallabies on the run with that pearler of wisdom.

Wales were a disgrace. Really wanted Wales to win but they need to cop on and wake the f up when they play Australia.

GunsGerms wrote:Wales were a disgrace. Really wanted Wales to win but they need to cop on and wake the f up when they play Australia.

It pains me when Wales play Australia. Should be doing better.

Where has Howley carpet-fitter said anything? I haven't read it. He must be in hiding.

GunsGerms wrote:It pains me when Wales play Australia. Should be doing better.

Maybe give some credit to Aus? They've always been a top playing nation in rugby. I always think they get a lot of unfair criticism, especially from NH rugby fans.

I still say its tactics are Wales real issue aginst the SH sides. Scotland will play a very differnt way against Aus to the way Wales do. I'll bet we get closer and score more tries than Wales did but equally I bet we lose.

YOu need speed and unpredictability to beat the SH.

The definition of stupid is to repeat the same thing with the same result. That's what we did for 8 years until this summer when we tried to change the game and spread it wide, a style we've used sparingly since Gatland arrived because he is playing a NH rugby formula to get results in the 6 Nations. FFS i bet that is even his KPI.

Wales had a brand of rugby that worked but had limitations: offload, support runners and tempo. They've replaced it with big men and route 1. and it doesnt' work for us other than in NH and even then it is out of date.

Sooner we realize that the experiment is over and start playing to our strengths again the better. But Gats does enough, and owns the WRU because of it, that means we settle for the odd 6 Nations because give the people what they want.

Today's crowd was shocking; to see a 55k stadium v Oz is the perfect indicator of where the public see the game. We have bent over to accommodate Gatland and he has reached the end of his shelf life. Schmidt made himself unavailable for Lions because he has a job to do (done) in Ireland. Why can't we have a coach like that?

And yes credit to Aus, still my favorite backs whenever they perform as they did today.

Ah never mind I've found that post-match interview from Howley. At least he was honest.

https://www.facebook.com/lee.bufton.3/videos/1127704203985507/

Gazza doing voice over?

mikey_dragon wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:It pains me when Wales play Australia. Should be doing better.

Maybe give some credit to Aus? They've always been a top playing nation in rugby. I always think they get a lot of unfair criticism, especially from NH rugby fans.

I disagree. Wales are a good side too and should be much better at home. 12 losses in a row v Australia is very very bad.

Gwlad wrote:Schmidt made himself unavailable for Lions because he has a job to do (done) in Ireland. Why can't we have a coach like that?

I know it's probably no consolation, but lots of Irish fans had major concerns about Schmidt coming into the NZ game. It's a great result for them but one swallow... Lancaster smashed NZ but look where that ended.

Gatland isn't going to walk. He is (very, very slightly) closer to the NZ job after tonight.

mikey_dragon wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:It pains me when Wales play Australia. Should be doing better.

Maybe give some credit to Aus? They've always been a top playing nation in rugby. I always think they get a lot of unfair criticism, especially from NH rugby fans.

Yeah, I agree mikey. Lots of commentators want to assume that there is nothing special about Australia, but they've proven too often that they have the ability and intensity and mental strength to inflict serious pain at any given moment. They're allowed a period of bad form and bad results like the rest of us, and I suppose they've been living through one of those periods in recent years. But they are a quality side with unquestionable pedigree.

Cyril wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Schmidt made himself unavailable for Lions because he has a job to do (done) in Ireland. Why can't we have a coach like that?

I know it's probably no consolation, but lots of Irish fans had major concerns about Schmidt coming into the NZ game. It's a great result for them but one swallow... Lancaster smashed NZ but look where that ended.

Gatland isn't going to walk. He is (very, very slightly) closer to the NZ job after tonight.

Yeah, we have reservations about Joe's usual curious International hesitancy of style, when at club level he created the most fluid attacking side in Europe. We were getting impatient with him, saying he was over-emphasising 'safe' at the expense of risk. And that's what Rory Best referred to in Interview, he said the team knew that to stand any chance against the best team in the world, they simply had to risk attack.
We've had concerns about Schmidt containing his more natural attacking instincts too often - but to a man, Irish fans were bloody delighted that Joe agreed to stay on with us until after the next WC. We've wanted him to coach a more attacking game - but without doubt, we still wanted HIM

SecretFly wrote:

Cyril wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Schmidt made himself unavailable for Lions because he has a job to do (done) in Ireland. Why can't we have a coach like that?

I know it's probably no consolation, but lots of Irish fans had major concerns about Schmidt coming into the NZ game. It's a great result for them but one swallow... Lancaster smashed NZ but look where that ended.

Gatland isn't going to walk. He is (very, very slightly) closer to the NZ job after tonight.

Yeah, we have reservations about Joe's usual curious International hesitancy of style, when at club level he created the most fluid attacking side in Europe.  We were getting impatient with him, saying he was over-emphasising 'safe' at the expense of risk.  And that's what Rory Best referred to in Interview, he said the team knew that to stand any chance against the best team in the world, they simply had to risk attack.
We've had concerns about Schmidt containing his more natural attacking instincts too often - but to a man, Irish fans were bloody delighted that Joe agreed to stay on with us until after the next WC.  We've wanted him to coach a more attacking game - but without doubt, we still wanted HIM

Come on now, there have been plenty of Munster (and Ulster, and maybe Connacht but we never knew 'em) calling for his head to be served cold. Leinster fans have loved him of course

Cyril wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Cyril wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Schmidt made himself unavailable for Lions because he has a job to do (done) in Ireland. Why can't we have a coach like that?

I know it's probably no consolation, but lots of Irish fans had major concerns about Schmidt coming into the NZ game. It's a great result for them but one swallow... Lancaster smashed NZ but look where that ended.

Gatland isn't going to walk. He is (very, very slightly) closer to the NZ job after tonight.

Yeah, we have reservations about Joe's usual curious International hesitancy of style, when at club level he created the most fluid attacking side in Europe.  We were getting impatient with him, saying he was over-emphasising 'safe' at the expense of risk.  And that's what Rory Best referred to in Interview, he said the team knew that to stand any chance against the best team in the world, they simply had to risk attack.
We've had concerns about Schmidt containing his more natural attacking instincts too often - but to a man, Irish fans were bloody delighted that Joe agreed to stay on with us until after the next WC.  We've wanted him to coach a more attacking game - but without doubt, we still wanted HIM

Come on now, there have been plenty of Munster (and Ulster, and maybe Connacht but we never knew 'em) calling for his head to be served cold. Leinster fans have loved him of course

They woz jealous, innit No, you always can know when an Irish fan is just mouthing off. "Joe is an idiot! He still picks Rod Kearney at 15!!!" - "So he should be sacked?" - "I didn't say that! Don't be trying to suggest I said that!"

I never doubted Schmidt, it is mostly Munster fans who dont like him. Cant wait to hear all the criticisms of him now.

Sin é is currently offline

Cyril wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Schmidt made himself unavailable for Lions because he has a job to do (done) in Ireland. Why can't we have a coach like that?

I know it's probably no consolation, but lots of Irish fans had major concerns about Schmidt coming into the NZ game. It's a great result for them but one swallow... Lancaster smashed NZ but look where that ended.

Gatland isn't going to walk. He is (very, very slightly) closer to the NZ job after tonight.

Come on Cyril no way, i'd say Schmidt is

Gwlad wrote:

Cyril wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Schmidt made himself unavailable for Lions because he has a job to do (done) in Ireland. Why can't we have a coach like that?

I know it's probably no consolation, but lots of Irish fans had major concerns about Schmidt coming into the NZ game. It's a great result for them but one swallow... Lancaster smashed NZ but look where that ended.

Gatland isn't going to walk. He is (very, very slightly) closer to the NZ job after tonight.

Come on Cyril no way, i'd say Schmidt is

Ireland will lose to Italy in the next 6Ns. The world keeps on turning...

Now that I have calmed down and the dust has settled, in the calm light of day.............IT'S EFFING WORSE THAN I THOUGHT !!!!

Worst Welsh performance in twenty odd years

I know it is not really fair to blame 1 person for the way Wales played yesterday, But surely some one must be responsable for the way WALES PERFORMED.


So is the blame to go to Howley? Gethin Jenkins?( captain)


Or is it to be down to the entire team?

Either way it was a dead full performance.

In the year 2092,Wales lose 142-0 against Greenland in front of 6 people at Rhiwbina Park.The Welsh Coach,Robert Howley the IV,claims more matches against these Tier 96 sides are necessary for Wales to improve since their last ever victory in 2016.The WRU immediately award Howley a 20 year contract guaranteed no win full pay and benefits contract.To fund the contract ticket prices to watch Wales play start at £100K.

SecretFly wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:It pains me when Wales play Australia. Should be doing better.

Maybe give some credit to Aus? They've always been a top playing nation in rugby. I always think they get a lot of unfair criticism, especially from NH rugby fans.

Yeah, I agree mikey.  Lots of commentators want to assume that there is nothing special about Australia, but they've proven too often that they have the ability and intensity and mental strength to inflict serious pain at any given moment.  They're allowed a period of bad form and bad results like the rest of us, and I suppose they've been living through one of those periods in recent years.  But they are a quality side with unquestionable pedigree.

Yeah this pretty much sums it up. Aus have only looked bad against NZ, like every other team except for IRELAND .

GunsGerms wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:It pains me when Wales play Australia. Should be doing better.

Maybe give some credit to Aus? They've always been a top playing nation in rugby. I always think they get a lot of unfair criticism, especially from NH rugby fans.

I  disagree. Wales are a good side too and should be much better at home. 12 losses in a row v Australia is very very bad.

I agree with some of that, but I still feel you were being slightly disingenuous to the Wallabies like a lot of people usually are.

maestegmafia wrote:Worst Welsh performance in twenty odd years

Wouldn't go that far - we put in worse performances the last time Howley was in charge (it was less than twenty odd years ago).

Got to love some of the delusional folk a few months back saying how Howley was good because we won a 6N under him innit. How convenient to ignore the previous 5 games (and probably this one against Aus).

mikey_dragon wrote:Ah never mind I've found that post-match interview from Howley. At least he was honest.

https://www.facebook.com/lee.bufton.3/videos/1127704203985507/

Thank you mikey!

maestegmafia wrote:Worst Welsh performance in twenty odd years

Earlier in the year against the England 2nd team wasn't too great either.

mikey_dragon wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Worst Welsh performance in twenty odd years

Wouldn't go that far - we put in worse performances the last time Howley was in charge (it was less than twenty odd years ago).

Got to love some of the delusional folk a few months back saying how Howley was good because we won a 6N under him innit. How convenient to ignore the previous 5 games (and probably this one against Aus).

Oh I've banged my head against that wall god knows how many times lol

What a truly depressing performance from the starting 15 yesterday, the only satisfying performances from the starters was Moriarty and Tipuric, some of the scrums were ok as well, but in the loose we were totally outplayed, how refreshing to see Australia have many options with what to do with the ball, whenever they had it. When we had it all we were trying to do was put in one up runners or kick the leather off the ball.

Our defending was miles too narrow, with both wingers missing tackles, I suppose to give him credit Cuthbert did go looking for work, even the normally dependable kicker Halfpenny missed a couple of kicks that he would normally kick blindfolded.
Howley said he would pick his strongest team next weekend against Argentina, the only problem being is that what he classes his strongest team, is nowhere near what most people would select, I can see the likes of AWJ, WRUburton and JD2, and in the case of the latter it will be instead of the better centre on yesterdays performance and not the undroppable Jamie Roberts.
Going by reports I suppose Gareth Davies will replace Rhys Webb, who IMO wasn't very good anyway yesterday, I see some of the clowns at the Fail want Sam Davies in instead of Dan Biggar, we could have had Dan Carter at 10 yesterday and it wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference, some of Dan's tackling was superb especially first half when it needed to be.

Hopefully AWJ will be back, his generalship was badly missed, and personally if Faletau is not back, I would like to see a backrow of 6) WRUburton, 7) Tipuric, 8) Moriarty selected and let us see a much more expansive game as we started to play down in NZ in the summer. The front row were quite poor as well, especially in the loose, but then again would changing any of them radically improve the team, I don't think so. Hopefully a back line of Williams, Halfpenny, JD2, Williams, Amos, Biggar, Davies will be selected, but I don't hold out much hope for such a selection.

Agree with you on that backline selection Wayne, it's clearly the best. It won't count for much if we get bummed up front again though, so our runners need to be a lot less lateral. Aus had so much time on the ball compared to us because they threw it wider and came onto it at pace - their locks and No8 were the standout carriers for me. Our locks didn't work hard enough yesterday.

Some posters on here have claimed that Biggar is the best 10 in Europe.He's not even the best 10 in the NeathHirwaun area or the NH area in short.Since when has the great Welsh 10 legacy had tackling as it's primary rationale.He's playing 90's style rugby 25 years too late.Howley's inadequacy is personified in action by Biggar.If he's on the Lions tour,Scottish,Irish and English rugby supporters could feel well aggrieved.

Yes you can see how important AWJ is when he isn't there, I don't know when his Fathers funeral is, but I hope it is early enough to have him available for next weekend.
As for the backline I cannot see it being selected, both North and Roberts will be in, we can but hope.

exile jack wrote:Some posters on here have claimed that Biggar is the best 10 in Europe.He's not even the best 10 in the NeathHirwaun area or the NH area in short.Since when has the great Welsh 10 legacy had tackling as it's primary rationale.He's playing 90's style rugby 25 years too late.Howley's inadequacy is personified in action by Biggar.If he's on the Lions tour,Scottish,Irish and English rugby supporters could feel well aggrieved.

Why he isn't a bad player? He is one of the top NH fly-halves. He's had the odd poor game lately like yesterday's, but I'm yet to be convinced that he isn't one of the best around.

wayne wrote:Yes you can see how important AWJ is when he isn't there, I don't know when his Fathers funeral is, but I hope it is early enough to have him available for next weekend.
As for the backline I cannot see it being selected, both North and Roberts will be in, we can but hope.

Both should be dropped but neither will be

I'd pick same backline as you Wayne but with Sanjay at XV and Halfpenny on the wing.

Backrow again I'd go Warburton Moriarty Tipuric and whilst not convinced by it I think its worth a shot.

I'd be happy with Sam Davies starting and if he did I think his style of play would suit Roberts better.

Changing the front row won't improve things so can't see point. AWJ and Davies in 2nd row.

mikey_dragon wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:It pains me when Wales play Australia. Should be doing better.

Maybe give some credit to Aus? They've always been a top playing nation in rugby. I always think they get a lot of unfair criticism, especially from NH rugby fans.

Well MW certainly thought so saying Wales had been beaten by the 2nd best team in the World - not according to the World rankings at least ...

bedfordwelsh wrote:

wayne wrote:Yes you can see how important AWJ is when he isn't there, I don't know when his Fathers funeral is, but I hope it is early enough to have him available for next weekend.
As for the backline I cannot see it being selected, both North and Roberts will be in, we can but hope.

Both should be dropped but neither will be

I'd pick same backline as you Wayne but with Sanjay at XV and Halfpenny on the wing.

Backrow again I'd go Warburton Moriarty Tipuric and whilst not convinced by it I think its worth a shot.

I'd be happy with Sam Davies starting and if he did I think his style of play would suit Roberts better.

Changing the front row won't improve things so can't see point.  AWJ and Davies in 2nd row.

Bedford who do you think the Williams at the beginning is?
We also agree on the backrow, it's just I've gone 6,7,8 whereas you've gone 6,8,7, and it won't make a blind bit of difference who the 10 is if we have no decent ball to play with, that is where the game is won and lost, and personally I'd have Dan before Sam.

Yeah read it wrong way about lol.

Yep exactly, you could who hell you wanted in backs but if not get ball it won't matter.

I even think that if Howler did go with Amos, Williams and Halfpenny back 3 he'd stick Leigh at XV

Now I've had a chance to calm down Im still in a bit of a daze - since when did we stand off like that ? Where was the blitz defense ? When did we commit so many players to the ruck ?

The only positive I can take from that is that we have found a decent backup to Faletau in Moriarty.

Heaf wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:It pains me when Wales play Australia. Should be doing better.

Maybe give some credit to Aus? They've always been a top playing nation in rugby. I always think they get a lot of unfair criticism, especially from NH rugby fans.

Well MW certainly thought so saying Wales had been beaten by the 2nd best team in the World - not according to the World rankings at least ...

They're certainly 2nd or 3rd best in the world though, perhaps even neck and neck with England - the only reason I say that is because the Aussies would argue that they've beat SA. Aus vs Eng at Twickenham will be interesting.

mikey_dragon wrote:

exile jack wrote:Some posters on here have claimed that Biggar is the best 10 in Europe.He's not even the best 10 in the NeathHirwaun area or the NH area in short.Since when has the great Welsh 10 legacy had tackling as it's primary rationale.He's playing 90's style rugby 25 years too late.Howley's inadequacy is personified in action by Biggar.If he's on the Lions tour,Scottish,Irish and English rugby supporters could feel well aggrieved.

Why he isn't a bad player? He is one of the top NH fly-halves. He's had the odd poor game lately like yesterday's, but I'm yet to be convinced that he isn't one of the best around.

Arguably,he's adequate in the Pro12,but as an international 10 he's nowhere near the standard required and yesterday was just the latest example of it.As i've said before he needs to rethink his game but with the buffoons in charge of the Welsh team he will be waiting a long time.He alone is not responsible for the steady decline of the Wales team since 2011 he's just one manifestation of it.If Sexton(brilliant yesterday and who schools Biggar every time he plays against him),Farrell and Russell aren't the Lions 10s it would be an outrage in rugby terms.

Biggar wasn't selected last Lions tour so I don't see why people think he will be this time.

If fit then its Sexton all day long.

exile jack wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

exile jack wrote:Some posters on here have claimed that Biggar is the best 10 in Europe.He's not even the best 10 in the NeathHirwaun area or the NH area in short.Since when has the great Welsh 10 legacy had tackling as it's primary rationale.He's playing 90's style rugby 25 years too late.Howley's inadequacy is personified in action by Biggar.If he's on the Lions tour,Scottish,Irish and English rugby supporters could feel well aggrieved.

Why he isn't a bad player? He is one of the top NH fly-halves. He's had the odd poor game lately like yesterday's, but I'm yet to be convinced that he isn't one of the best around.

Arguably,he's adequate in the Pro12,but as an international 10 he's nowhere near the standard required and yesterday was just the latest example of it.As i've said before he needs to rethink his game but with the buffoons in charge of the Welsh team he will be waiting a long time.He alone is not responsible for the steady decline of the Wales team since 2011 he's just one manifestation of it.If Sexton(brilliant yesterday and who schools Biggar every time he plays against him),Farrell and Russell aren't the Lions 10s it would be an outrage in rugby terms.

WTF, based on what exactly? Last season he was the best in the NH and arguably also the season before. He's had a small run of bad form. Are you one of ones shouting Sam Davies from the hills?

Russell for the Lions? Right now that's pretty doubtful.

Is it just me, or is Biggar turning into a petulant little so and so? He gave the ref a load of gob in the summer game against England and was almost as bad yesterday when carded.

He's a good player but really needs to work on his attitude.

I really rate Biggar. Sexton is the best for the lions but I'd put Biggar 2nd. Russell at his best is better than either but too inconsistent - lets see after the 6N