Wales v Australia, 5 November

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WALES v AUSTRALIA  
5 November 2016
KO: 14:30 GMT
Principality Stadium, Cardiff

Live on BBC Sports

Referee: Craig Joubert (South Africa)
Assistant Referees: Jérôme Garcès (France), Federico Anselmi (Argentina)
TMO: Simon McDowell (Ireland)

A. Head to Head

39 Played 39
10 Won 28
1 Drawn 1
28 Lost 10
596 Points 912

B. Recent Form

10 October 2015:
Twickenham Stadium
15 – 6 to Australia
2015 Rugby World Cup Pool A

8 November 2014:
Millennium Stadium
28 – 33 to Australia
2014 Autumn International

30 November 2013:
Millennium Stadium
26 – 30 to Australia
2013 Autumn International

1 December 2012:
Millennium Stadium
12 – 14 to Australia
2012 Autumn International

23 June 2012:
Sydney Football Stadium
20 – 19 to Australia
Welsh Tour of Australia

16 June 2012:
Etihad Stadium
25 – 23 to Australia
Welsh Tour of Australia

9 June 2012:
Suncorp Stadium
27 – 19 to Australia
Welsh Tour of Australia

3 December 2011:
Millennium Stadium
18 – 24 to Australia
2011 Autumn International

C. Teams


WALES 

15 Leigh Halfpenny, 14 Alex Cuthbert, 13 Jonathan Davies, 12 Jamie Roberts, 11 George North, 10 Dan Biggar, 9 Rhys Webb, 8 Ross Moriarty, 7 Justin Tipuric, 6 Dan Lydiate, 5 Luke Charteris, 4 Bradley Davies, 3 Samson Le, 2 Ken Owens, 1 Gethin Jenkins

Replacements: 16 Scott Baldwin, 17 Nicky Smith, 18 Tomas Francis, 19 Cory Hill, 20 James King, 21 Gareth Davies, 22 Sam Davies, 23 Hallam Amos

AUSTRALIA  

15 Israel Folau, 14 Dane Haylett-Petty, 13 Tevita Kuridrani, 12 Reece Hodge, 11 Henry Speight, 10 Bernard Foley, 9 Nick Phipps, 8 Lopeti Timani, 7 Michael Hooper, 6 David Pocock, 5 Adam Coleman, 4 Rory Arnold, 3 Sekope Kepu, 2 Stephen Moore (c), 1 Scott Sio

Replacements: 16 Tolu Latu, 17 James Slipper, 18 Allan Alaalatoa, 19 Rob Simmons, 20 Scott Fardy, 21 Nick Frisby, 22 Quade Cooper, 23 Sefa Naivalu

Mr Bounce wrote:Is it just me, or is Biggar turning into a petulant little so and so? He gave the ref a load of gob in the summer game against England and was almost as bad yesterday when carded.

He's a good player but really needs to work on his attitude.

Well it isn't me, he only gave an explanation to Joubert, he NEVER gave any gob to him, he was trying to get out of receiving a yellow, which was deserved. Nothing wrong with his attitude at all. At least he is not polite to a referee, as somebody I could mention is, and has not changed one decision because of his attitude.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Biggar wasn't selected last Lions tour so I don't see why people think he will be this time.

If fit then its Sexton all day long.

BW, out of the team that beat England 30-3, the only player that wasn't selected for the Lions from our team was Dan even though he orchestrated the game and completely outclassed his opposite number. They even had the gall to select a full back who had occasionally played O/H in the distant past to be 3rd choice. I believe Howley still held a grudge from the Fiji debacle of a few years earlier
I agree Sexton is No 1, but sorry Dan should be second choice IMO

IF all 10's are fully fit when the lions tour comes around it will be between Sexton, and Farrell for the starting slot with Biggar being third choice.

exile jack wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

exile jack wrote:Some posters on here have claimed that Biggar is the best 10 in Europe.He's not even the best 10 in the NeathHirwaun area or the NH area in short.Since when has the great Welsh 10 legacy had tackling as it's primary rationale.He's playing 90's style rugby 25 years too late.Howley's inadequacy is personified in action by Biggar.If he's on the Lions tour,Scottish,Irish and English rugby supporters could feel well aggrieved.

Why he isn't a bad player? He is one of the top NH fly-halves. He's had the odd poor game lately like yesterday's, but I'm yet to be convinced that he isn't one of the best around.

Arguably,he's adequate in the Pro12,but as an international 10 he's nowhere near the standard required and yesterday was just the latest example of it.As i've said before he needs to rethink his game but with the buffoons in charge of the Welsh team he will be waiting a long time.He alone is not responsible for the steady decline of the Wales team since 2011 he's just one manifestation of it.If Sexton(brilliant yesterday and who schools Biggar every time he plays against him),Farrell and Russell aren't the Lions 10s it would be an outrage in rugby terms.

Jack, just because you keep on spouting the same rubbish in continuous posts, and you met up with a couple of Kiwi's that agreed with you doesn't make it true, I've told you the circumstances surrounding that tour once, (continuous rugby from the previous August) whereas Barrett had a decent little rest, and Dan was more than adequate in the first 2 tests, yes he was schooled in the final test, so was a lot of others, including one who you don't mention AWJ. Why?

Finally, sorry I've seen a number of games where Dan has outplayed Sexton, doesn't mean that Dan is No 1, he is clearly behind Jonny, but personally I'd have him as my 2nd choice.

majesticimperialman wrote:IF all 10's are fully fit when the lions tour comes around it will be between Sexton, and Farrell for the starting slot with Biggar being third choice.

Didn't expect anything different from you Madge.

Farrell, Ford, Biggar and Sexton all good enough to be included.

wayne wrote:

exile jack wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

exile jack wrote:Some posters on here have claimed that Biggar is the best 10 in Europe.He's not even the best 10 in the NeathHirwaun area or the NH area in short.Since when has the great Welsh 10 legacy had tackling as it's primary rationale.He's playing 90's style rugby 25 years too late.Howley's inadequacy is personified in action by Biggar.If he's on the Lions tour,Scottish,Irish and English rugby supporters could feel well aggrieved.

Why he isn't a bad player? He is one of the top NH fly-halves. He's had the odd poor game lately like yesterday's, but I'm yet to be convinced that he isn't one of the best around.

Arguably,he's adequate in the Pro12,but as an international 10 he's nowhere near the standard required and yesterday was just the latest example of it.As i've said before he needs to rethink his game but with the buffoons in charge of the Welsh team he will be waiting a long time.He alone is not responsible for the steady decline of the Wales team since 2011 he's just one manifestation of it.If Sexton(brilliant yesterday and who schools Biggar every time he plays against him),Farrell and Russell aren't the Lions 10s it would be an outrage in rugby terms.

Jack, just because you keep on spouting the same rubbish in continuous posts, and you met up with a couple of Kiwi's that agreed with you doesn't make it true, I've told you the circumstances surrounding that tour once, (continuous rugby from the previous August) whereas Barrett had a decent little rest, and Dan was more than adequate in the first 2 tests, yes he was schooled in the final test, so was a lot of others, including one who you don't mention AWJ. Why?

Finally, sorry I've seen a number of games where Dan has outplayed Sexton, doesn't mean that Dan is No 1, he is clearly behind Jonny, but personally I'd have him as my 2nd choice.

That you put Biggar even remotely in the same category as AWJ reveals a lack of understanding of the difference between an international class lock overplayed to the point of exhaustion and a 10 who is not of international standard.His lack of speed from a standing start let alone sustained pace puts the Welsh 3/4 line in the cross hairs of any half competent defence.His tactical kicking is pants and he couldn't manage to marshal a try against 13 Ozzies in the WC.I've never seen him school Sexton.You need to put your Howley cycloptic glasses away.Btw,kiwis know their rugby and Biggar isn't rated at all by them,ITM standard at best and nowhere near an AB squad.They'd be delighted to see Biggar again in NZ.They respect AWJ but don't think he'll be one of the first choice Lions locks if he makes the tour.

The lineout functioned much better yesterday when Hill and Baldwin were on the pitch. I'm not saying start Hill, but I am most certainly saying drop Owens entirely. For all the people who say he's good around the pitch - his primary role is two throw and he's crap at it, and yesterday he was just as crap around the field.

exile jack wrote:

wayne wrote:

exile jack wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

exile jack wrote:Some posters on here have claimed that Biggar is the best 10 in Europe.He's not even the best 10 in the NeathHirwaun area or the NH area in short.Since when has the great Welsh 10 legacy had tackling as it's primary rationale.He's playing 90's style rugby 25 years too late.Howley's inadequacy is personified in action by Biggar.If he's on the Lions tour,Scottish,Irish and English rugby supporters could feel well aggrieved.

Why he isn't a bad player? He is one of the top NH fly-halves. He's had the odd poor game lately like yesterday's, but I'm yet to be convinced that he isn't one of the best around.

Arguably,he's adequate in the Pro12,but as an international 10 he's nowhere near the standard required and yesterday was just the latest example of it.As i've said before he needs to rethink his game but with the buffoons in charge of the Welsh team he will be waiting a long time.He alone is not responsible for the steady decline of the Wales team since 2011 he's just one manifestation of it.If Sexton(brilliant yesterday and who schools Biggar every time he plays against him),Farrell and Russell aren't the Lions 10s it would be an outrage in rugby terms.

Jack, just because you keep on spouting the same rubbish in continuous posts, and you met up with a couple of Kiwi's that agreed with you doesn't make it true, I've told you the circumstances surrounding that tour once, (continuous rugby from the previous August) whereas Barrett had a decent little rest, and Dan was more than adequate in the first 2 tests, yes he was schooled in the final test, so was a lot of others, including one who you don't mention AWJ. Why?

Finally, sorry I've seen a number of games where Dan has outplayed Sexton, doesn't mean that Dan is No 1, he is clearly behind Jonny, but personally I'd have him as my 2nd choice.

That you put Biggar even remotely in the same category as AWJ reveals a lack of understanding of the difference between an international class lock overplayed to the point of exhaustion and a 10 who is not of international standard.His lack of speed from a standing start let alone sustained pace puts the Welsh 3/4 line in the cross hairs of any half competent defence.His tactical kicking is pants and he couldn't manage to marshal a try against 13 Ozzies in the WC.I've never seen him school Sexton.You need to put your Howley cycloptic glasses away.Btw,kiwis know their rugby and Biggar isn't rated at all by them,ITM standard at best and nowhere near an AB squad.They'd be delighted to see Biggar again in NZ.They respect AWJ but don't think he'll be one of the first choice Lions locks if he makes the tour.

Before you make statements why not try getting a few facts correct, AWJ, had NOT played for the Ospreys AFTER January of last year because of injury. He played 13 games for us last season with only 10 starts, Dan played 17 with 15 starts as well as many for Team Wales.
So who is the OVERPLAYED ONE, as I said, so yourself and a few Kiwi's don't rate him, so who gives a F... As for the Howley prejudice, who wore the 10 jersey for England that day when we won 30-3? and who was then selected for the Lions?

mikey_dragon wrote:The lineout functioned much better yesterday when Hill and Baldwin were on the pitch. I'm not saying start Hill, but I am most certainly saying drop Owens entirely. For all the people who say he's good around the pitch - his primary role is two throw and he's crap at it, and yesterday he was just as crap around the field.

To be fair, he did have company...........

Just watched Argentina dissect Japan. Wales may well be cooked because the Argies love to get out into the the wide channels and run even more than the Wallabies. We need to pray AWJ, JD2 and Liam are back, Davies at 10, drop Roberts for Williams. And ffs keep Tipuric and put Warburton at 6.

And Cuthbert…P45

wayne wrote:

exile jack wrote:

wayne wrote:

exile jack wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

exile jack wrote:Some posters on here have claimed that Biggar is the best 10 in Europe.He's not even the best 10 in the NeathHirwaun area or the NH area in short.Since when has the great Welsh 10 legacy had tackling as it's primary rationale.He's playing 90's style rugby 25 years too late.Howley's inadequacy is personified in action by Biggar.If he's on the Lions tour,Scottish,Irish and English rugby supporters could feel well aggrieved.

Why he isn't a bad player? He is one of the top NH fly-halves. He's had the odd poor game lately like yesterday's, but I'm yet to be convinced that he isn't one of the best around.

Arguably,he's adequate in the Pro12,but as an international 10 he's nowhere near the standard required and yesterday was just the latest example of it.As i've said before he needs to rethink his game but with the buffoons in charge of the Welsh team he will be waiting a long time.He alone is not responsible for the steady decline of the Wales team since 2011 he's just one manifestation of it.If Sexton(brilliant yesterday and who schools Biggar every time he plays against him),Farrell and Russell aren't the Lions 10s it would be an outrage in rugby terms.

Jack, just because you keep on spouting the same rubbish in continuous posts, and you met up with a couple of Kiwi's that agreed with you doesn't make it true, I've told you the circumstances surrounding that tour once, (continuous rugby from the previous August) whereas Barrett had a decent little rest, and Dan was more than adequate in the first 2 tests, yes he was schooled in the final test, so was a lot of others, including one who you don't mention AWJ. Why?

Finally, sorry I've seen a number of games where Dan has outplayed Sexton, doesn't mean that Dan is No 1, he is clearly behind Jonny, but personally I'd have him as my 2nd choice.

That you put Biggar even remotely in the same category as AWJ reveals a lack of understanding of the difference between an international class lock overplayed to the point of exhaustion and a 10 who is not of international standard.His lack of speed from a standing start let alone sustained pace puts the Welsh 3/4 line in the cross hairs of any half competent defence.His tactical kicking is pants and he couldn't manage to marshal a try against 13 Ozzies in the WC.I've never seen him school Sexton.You need to put your Howley cycloptic glasses away.Btw,kiwis know their rugby and Biggar isn't rated at all by them,ITM standard at best and nowhere near an AB squad.They'd be delighted to see Biggar again in NZ.They respect AWJ but don't think he'll be one of the first choice Lions locks if he makes the tour.

Before you make statements why not try getting a few facts correct, AWJ, had NOT played for the Ospreys AFTER January of last year because of injury. He played 13 games for us last season with only 10 starts, Dan played 17 with 15 starts as well as many for Team Wales.
So who is the OVERPLAYED ONE, as I said, so yourself and a few Kiwi's don't rate him, so who gives a F... As for the Howley prejudice, who wore the 10 jersey for England that day when we won 30-3? and who was then selected for the Lions?

AWJ's physical condition has long been a concern because of his physical commitment to the O's and Welsh team causes.Unlike Biggar he's not able to just kick the ball away aimlessly time and again and expect the rest of the team to bail him out.As for the 30-3 result it's obvious to anyone not blinded by bromance and myopia that the result was one brighter spot in an endless tunnel of increasing gloom.It was no surprise Biggar wasn't selected for the Lions and I don't think he will be selected for them next year.Gats' slim and reducing chances of coaching NZ depend on winning that series and he's not going to take a 10 like Biggar that predefines the Lions approach.As for your abuse of Kiwis i'm afraid they and many other nations don't indulge the rose-tinted fantasy world that surrounds their professional rugby players unlike some Welsh supporters who overhype theirs.In NZ one bad game and you may not play for the ABs again.That's why they lead and others follow.

mikey_dragon wrote:The lineout functioned much better yesterday when Hill and Baldwin were on the pitch. I'm not saying start Hill, but I am most certainly saying drop Owens entirely. For all the people who say he's good around the pitch - his primary role is two throw and he's crap at it, and yesterday he was just as crap around the field.

Hill at least looked he wanted to be on the pitch so all credit to him.Give him a chance to start.I see Howley is already reaching for the player redemption card.

doctor_grey wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:The lineout functioned much better yesterday when Hill and Baldwin were on the pitch. I'm not saying start Hill, but I am most certainly saying drop Owens entirely. For all the people who say he's good around the pitch - his primary role is two throw and he's crap at it, and yesterday he was just as crap around the field.

To be fair, he did have company...........

Lots of it, but Owens was one of ones that before the match you'd say should not be starting on his current form. Somehow he waltzed into the team and continued with this crap form. The very logical choice was Baldwin to start.

exile jack wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:The lineout functioned much better yesterday when Hill and Baldwin were on the pitch. I'm not saying start Hill, but I am most certainly saying drop Owens entirely. For all the people who say he's good around the pitch - his primary role is two throw and he's crap at it, and yesterday he was just as crap around the field.

Hill at least looked he wanted to be on the pitch so all credit to him.Give him a chance to start.I see Howley is already reaching for the player redemption card.

Bloody hope not. Some players have made a career out of player-redemption cards.

exile jack wrote:

wayne wrote:

exile jack wrote:

wayne wrote:

exile jack wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

exile jack wrote:Some posters on here have claimed that Biggar is the best 10 in Europe.He's not even the best 10 in the NeathHirwaun area or the NH area in short.Since when has the great Welsh 10 legacy had tackling as it's primary rationale.He's playing 90's style rugby 25 years too late.Howley's inadequacy is personified in action by Biggar.If he's on the Lions tour,Scottish,Irish and English rugby supporters could feel well aggrieved.

Why he isn't a bad player? He is one of the top NH fly-halves. He's had the odd poor game lately like yesterday's, but I'm yet to be convinced that he isn't one of the best around.

Arguably,he's adequate in the Pro12,but as an international 10 he's nowhere near the standard required and yesterday was just the latest example of it.As i've said before he needs to rethink his game but with the buffoons in charge of the Welsh team he will be waiting a long time.He alone is not responsible for the steady decline of the Wales team since 2011 he's just one manifestation of it.If Sexton(brilliant yesterday and who schools Biggar every time he plays against him),Farrell and Russell aren't the Lions 10s it would be an outrage in rugby terms.

Jack, just because you keep on spouting the same rubbish in continuous posts, and you met up with a couple of Kiwi's that agreed with you doesn't make it true, I've told you the circumstances surrounding that tour once, (continuous rugby from the previous August) whereas Barrett had a decent little rest, and Dan was more than adequate in the first 2 tests, yes he was schooled in the final test, so was a lot of others, including one who you don't mention AWJ. Why?

Finally, sorry I've seen a number of games where Dan has outplayed Sexton, doesn't mean that Dan is No 1, he is clearly behind Jonny, but personally I'd have him as my 2nd choice.

That you put Biggar even remotely in the same category as AWJ reveals a lack of understanding of the difference between an international class lock overplayed to the point of exhaustion and a 10 who is not of international standard.His lack of speed from a standing start let alone sustained pace puts the Welsh 3/4 line in the cross hairs of any half competent defence.His tactical kicking is pants and he couldn't manage to marshal a try against 13 Ozzies in the WC.I've never seen him school Sexton.You need to put your Howley cycloptic glasses away.Btw,kiwis know their rugby and Biggar isn't rated at all by them,ITM standard at best and nowhere near an AB squad.They'd be delighted to see Biggar again in NZ.They respect AWJ but don't think he'll be one of the first choice Lions locks if he makes the tour.

Before you make statements why not try getting a few facts correct, AWJ, had NOT played for the Ospreys AFTER January of last year because of injury. He played 13 games for us last season with only 10 starts, Dan played 17 with 15 starts as well as many for Team Wales.
So who is the OVERPLAYED ONE, as I said, so yourself and a few Kiwi's don't rate him, so who gives a F... As for the Howley prejudice, who wore the 10 jersey for England that day when we won 30-3? and who was then selected for the Lions?    

AWJ's physical condition has long been a concern because of his physical commitment to the O's and Welsh team causes.Unlike Biggar he's not able to just kick the ball away aimlessly time and again and expect the rest of the team to bail him out.As for the 30-3 result it's obvious to anyone not blinded by bromance and myopia that the result was one brighter spot in an endless tunnel of increasing gloom.It was no surprise Biggar wasn't selected for the Lions and I don't think he will be selected for them next year.Gats' slim and reducing chances of coaching NZ depend on winning that series and he's not going to take a 10 like Biggar that predefines the Lions approach.As for your abuse of Kiwis i'm afraid they and many other nations don't indulge the rose-tinted fantasy world that surrounds their professional rugby players unlike some Welsh supporters who overhype theirs.In NZ one bad game and you may not play for the ABs again.That's why they lead and others follow.

Who is concerned about his physical condition?, I've never heard it, and as I showed he missed at least 3 months of the season, whereas Dan played the WHOLE season. The kicking scenario is a game plan employed by both Ospreys and Wales in the past, we've (Ospreys) changed it this season, also there is not a braver kick and chase player (remember the instances when he's been upended by opposition players) in the NH. I'm in no way myopic, I slag off many of our players, for instance if he wasn't injured I wouldn't select Webb for next week, indecisive at many breakdowns. I wouldn't mind betting you are correct in what you say about not being selected for next years Lions, and finally have a look if you are so inclined in the last League final that we've taken part in when we beat Leinster at the RDS, Dan absolutely outplayed Jonny that day, and that is off the top of my head (remember the final conversion in the last play of the game to win the title, from the wrong side of the field for a right footed kicker). Let me finally say, we are NEVER going to agree on the merits of Dan, so that's me done on it with you.

Aye - pick on Biggar for his faults but his kick chase game last year was the best I have ever seen.

Mr Bounce wrote:Is it just me, or is Biggar turning into a petulant little so and so? He gave the ref a load of gob in the summer game against England and was almost as bad yesterday when carded.

He's a good player but really needs to work on his attitude.

Its just you if you only think its happening now. Its less of an issue when hes doing the things he can do very well (and yes he was a big part of a certain RWC game) but I think that side has always been there.

wayne wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:IF all 10's are fully fit when the lions tour comes around it will be between Sexton, and Farrell for the starting slot with Biggar being third choice.

Didn't expect anything different from you Madge.

wayne.

I was trying to make a point that the 3 10's for the Lions tour will be Sexton Farrell for the straing slot with Biggar in 3rd place. and based on yesterday's performance, no room for Halfpenny.

Although with Gatland being in charge like he wast last time their will be more Welsh players than any other nations. jut wait and see.

wayne wrote:

exile jack wrote:

wayne wrote:

exile jack wrote:

wayne wrote:

exile jack wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

exile jack wrote:Some posters on here have claimed that Biggar is the best 10 in Europe.He's not even the best 10 in the NeathHirwaun area or the NH area in short.Since when has the great Welsh 10 legacy had tackling as it's primary rationale.He's playing 90's style rugby 25 years too late.Howley's inadequacy is personified in action by Biggar.If he's on the Lions tour,Scottish,Irish and English rugby supporters could feel well aggrieved.

Why he isn't a bad player? He is one of the top NH fly-halves. He's had the odd poor game lately like yesterday's, but I'm yet to be convinced that he isn't one of the best around.

Arguably,he's adequate in the Pro12,but as an international 10 he's nowhere near the standard required and yesterday was just the latest example of it.As i've said before he needs to rethink his game but with the buffoons in charge of the Welsh team he will be waiting a long time.He alone is not responsible for the steady decline of the Wales team since 2011 he's just one manifestation of it.If Sexton(brilliant yesterday and who schools Biggar every time he plays against him),Farrell and Russell aren't the Lions 10s it would be an outrage in rugby terms.

Jack, just because you keep on spouting the same rubbish in continuous posts, and you met up with a couple of Kiwi's that agreed with you doesn't make it true, I've told you the circumstances surrounding that tour once, (continuous rugby from the previous August) whereas Barrett had a decent little rest, and Dan was more than adequate in the first 2 tests, yes he was schooled in the final test, so was a lot of others, including one who you don't mention AWJ. Why?

Finally, sorry I've seen a number of games where Dan has outplayed Sexton, doesn't mean that Dan is No 1, he is clearly behind Jonny, but personally I'd have him as my 2nd choice.

That you put Biggar even remotely in the same category as AWJ reveals a lack of understanding of the difference between an international class lock overplayed to the point of exhaustion and a 10 who is not of international standard.His lack of speed from a standing start let alone sustained pace puts the Welsh 3/4 line in the cross hairs of any half competent defence.His tactical kicking is pants and he couldn't manage to marshal a try against 13 Ozzies in the WC.I've never seen him school Sexton.You need to put your Howley cycloptic glasses away.Btw,kiwis know their rugby and Biggar isn't rated at all by them,ITM standard at best and nowhere near an AB squad.They'd be delighted to see Biggar again in NZ.They respect AWJ but don't think he'll be one of the first choice Lions locks if he makes the tour.

Before you make statements why not try getting a few facts correct, AWJ, had NOT played for the Ospreys AFTER January of last year because of injury. He played 13 games for us last season with only 10 starts, Dan played 17 with 15 starts as well as many for Team Wales.
So who is the OVERPLAYED ONE, as I said, so yourself and a few Kiwi's don't rate him, so who gives a F... As for the Howley prejudice, who wore the 10 jersey for England that day when we won 30-3? and who was then selected for the Lions?    

AWJ's physical condition has long been a concern because of his physical commitment to the O's and Welsh team causes.Unlike Biggar he's not able to just kick the ball away aimlessly time and again and expect the rest of the team to bail him out.As for the 30-3 result it's obvious to anyone not blinded by bromance and myopia that the result was one brighter spot in an endless tunnel of increasing gloom.It was no surprise Biggar wasn't selected for the Lions and I don't think he will be selected for them next year.Gats' slim and reducing chances of coaching NZ depend on winning that series and he's not going to take a 10 like Biggar that predefines the Lions approach.As for your abuse of Kiwis i'm afraid they and many other nations don't indulge the rose-tinted fantasy world that surrounds their professional rugby players unlike some Welsh supporters who overhype theirs.In NZ one bad game and you may not play for the ABs again.That's why they lead and others follow.

Who is concerned about his physical condition?, I've never heard it, and as I showed he missed at least 3 months of the season, whereas Dan played the WHOLE season. The kicking scenario is a game plan employed by both Ospreys and Wales in the past, we've (Ospreys) changed it this season, also there is not a braver kick and chase player (remember the instances when he's been upended by opposition players) in the NH. I'm in no way myopic, I slag off many of our players, for instance if he wasn't injured I wouldn't select Webb for next week, indecisive at many breakdowns. I wouldn't mind betting you are correct in what you say about not being selected for next years Lions, and finally have a look if you are so inclined in the last League final that we've taken part in when we beat Leinster at the RDS, Dan absolutely outplayed Jonny that day, and that is off the top of my head (remember the final conversion in the last play of the game to win the title, from the wrong side of the field for a right footed kicker). Let me finally say, we are NEVER going to agree on the merits of Dan, so that's me done on it with you.

That must be the Leinster match in May 2012-some 4 1/2 years ago.A touchline conversion that long ago is no basis to claim Biggar is an international 10.He's not.End of.

majesticimperialman wrote:

wayne wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:IF all 10's are fully fit when the lions tour comes around it will be between Sexton, and Farrell for the starting slot with Biggar being third choice.

Didn't expect anything different from you Madge.

wayne.

I was trying to make a point that the 3 10's for the Lions tour will be Sexton Farrell for the straing slot with Biggar in 3rd place. and based on yesterday's performance, no room for Halfpenny.

Although with Gatland being in charge like he wast last  time their will be more Welsh players than any other nations. jut wait and see.

Sorry Madge, but what I told Jack, I don't think Gatland will pick Dan, I thought it inexcusable that last time when he played as good as any other 10s in that 6Ns and was better than Farrell in the big win and still wasn't selected, they even picked Hogg who hadn't played much at 10, Dan has also played 12 and 15 for us before that tour, so if he wanted versatility they had it with Dan, and he was the ONLY Welsh player selected in the 15 for that match, that wasn't selected for that tour. I said what I said because you were sticking up for your countrymen, which I can totally understand. Let me just say if Farrell was available for us, I still wouldn't select him over Dan, he suits our game to the Tee, I couldn't say the same about Sexton, definitely No 1.

What part of Farrell's game wouldn't suit Wales?

No 7&1/2 wrote:What part of Farrell's game wouldn't suit Wales?

I wasn't talking about Wales, in that instance I was talking Ospreys, there's not a lot between them in tackling, distribution and positional kicking, but in ALL those aspects I think Dan is better, and as I said in that game albeit it was a few years ago, he was better than Owen.
Just my opinion.

Oh Biggar was definitely better in the 30 3 game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKyD-hjE73I at 37:40

Take a look at Lydiate in the wide shot as Australia are about to score their third try. I took a country walk this afternoon and was more energetic!

Gwlad wrote:Just watched Argentina dissect Japan. Wales may well be cooked because the Argies love to get out into the the wide channels and run even more than the Wallabies.

This is how good Test sides play in 2016. Wales saw it for themselves in New Zealand this summer, too. Have they learnt from it? Have they bullocks.

Old players, old coaches, old gameplan, old failings.

I said last season that we should have used the Six Nations to look at new players with the next World Cup in mind. You know, actually plan ahead. Well it turns out our plan is to hope the players from the last World Cup last until 2017. They're not going to get any younger, or quicker, or fitter. Add that to an obsolete gameplan and has-been coaches and you get what we saw on Saturday.

The game has moved on, our coaches haven't. I hope the Pumas show us how far behind we are again on Saturday. Maybe the penny will drop.

And I've said it before: the worst thing we could have done was to beat England at the last World Cup. They got a new coaching team; we're stuck with our old one.

The decision taken by the WRU to award contract extensions to Howley et al becomes more disturbing by the day.Australia appoint Ledesma to coach their forwards and we stick with McBryde.Every time Howley gives an interview it's like watching Excuses Bingo.Even the pundits on Scrum V appear to recognise that the current coaching is a huge issue for Wales.What's really worrying is this supposed closer working relationship between Howley's team and the PRW coaches.You couldn't make it up.

I think there were hugely promising signs from the NZ tour, certainly in the first two tests.

Only time will tell whether Saturday was a one off in its awfulness, or whether it really is a team in decline.

The two most worrying things for me was the lack of organisation in defence, Roberts has been a rock for Quins, what went wrong on Saturday? Was it the late change of JD2 out?

Secondly, our forwards getting dominated in contact, while Australia seemingly made metres in every tackle. Moriarty was a strong exception, Cory Hill coming on improved this too, shows that it is maybe down to attitude?

For the next 3 games, I hope that they go back to getting the basics right, forwards with momentum, backs organised and making their first up tackles, hitting our lineout jumpers.

Maybe then we can see the more expensive game fans are dying for, but until the basics are done correctly, we will not perform to the level we can.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:And I've said it before: the worst thing we could have done was to beat England at the last World Cup. They got a new coaching team; we're stuck with our old one.

Really?? You'd rather suffer the embarrassment of being kicked out of a world cup at the group stages than have Howely in charge for this year.

Gatlnad was given a four year contract before the world cup so i doubt they would have terminated it.

No 7&1/2 wrote:What part of Farrell's game wouldn't suit Wales?

Beating Australia?

True Raven wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:And I've said it before: the worst thing we could have done was to beat England at the last World Cup. They got a new coaching team; we're stuck with our old one.

Really?? You'd rather suffer the embarrassment of being kicked out of a world cup at the group stages than have Howely in charge for this year.

Gatlnad was given a four year contract before the world cup so i doubt they would have terminated it.

I would hardly describe going out of the group stages when you have a pool of 3 very good teams an embarrassment.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

True Raven wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:And I've said it before: the worst thing we could have done was to beat England at the last World Cup. They got a new coaching team; we're stuck with our old one.

Really??  You'd rather suffer the embarrassment of being kicked out of a world cup at the group stages than have Howely in charge for this year.

Gatlnad was given a four year contract before the world cup so i doubt they would have terminated it.

I would hardly describe going out of the group stages when you have a pool of 3 very good teams an embarrassment.

Being first ever host to be knocked out in group stages isn't embarrassing ?

munkian wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

True Raven wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:And I've said it before: the worst thing we could have done was to beat England at the last World Cup. They got a new coaching team; we're stuck with our old one.

Really??  You'd rather suffer the embarrassment of being kicked out of a world cup at the group stages than have Howely in charge for this year.

Gatlnad was given a four year contract before the world cup so i doubt they would have terminated it.

I would hardly describe going out of the group stages when you have a pool of 3 very good teams an embarrassment.

Being first ever host to be knocked out in group stages isn't embarrassing ?

If we had gone out below Aus and someone like Georgia for example yes, but no personally at the time definitely and now if Wales had all their 1st teamers I would consisder the 3 teams as very close in terms of quality.

We didn't have our 1st teamers then, we had another two injured mid game.

I would've been mortified.

We had injuries as well and a further 2 off mid way. These things happen. Fair enough if you would consider a defeat to England as mortifying, like I said I perhaps just rate Wales more.

So they got rid of Lancaster just for lols if it wasn't an issue ?

I don't think they should have, just as they shouldn't have got rid of Johnson. I said before the world cup that I thought the coaching team needed shaking up afterwards meaning Farrell et al as Alex ferguson did successfuly for Man U over many years, constantly bringing in new ideas. We already see that with Jones who seems to be bringing in a temp coach every set of games.

If you are being genuine then you are the only English fan I know who didn't want to crawl into a hole and die after the Aus RWC match. I bought the bloke in the pub a pint as I felt so sorry for him.

Oh, I felt more bad when we lost against Wales than Aus as we were never in the Aus game bar 5-10 min whereas we were on top of Wales for 50-60 min so felt more like we deserved the loss rather than lost grasp. The pain of going out sucks whatever but you were focusing on embarrassing; no not for me 2 very good sides.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Oh, I felt more bad when we lost against Wales than Aus as we were never in the Aus game bar 5-10 min whereas we were on top of Wales for 50-60 min so felt more like we deserved the loss rather than lost grasp. The pain of going out sucks whatever but you were focusing on embarrassing; no not for me 2 very good sides.

Fairy nuff, back to us being arse clenchingly awful on Saturday.

True Raven wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:And I've said it before: the worst thing we could have done was to beat England at the last World Cup. They got a new coaching team; we're stuck with our old one.

Really??  You'd rather suffer the embarrassment of being kicked out of a world cup at the group stages than have Howely in charge for this year.

Gatlnad was given a four year contract before the world cup so i doubt they would have terminated it.

I just think that win got them out of jail. The coaching team was long enough in the tooth even then.

No 7 & 1/2 is a Lancaster apologist. Rarely has a bad thing to say about him.

Munkian of course it's embarrassing to be out of the pool stages but the good thing is England got rid of Lancaster and co. Just as Gatland and co should have been given the boot.

I was annoyed about losing to Wales and Australia but the more deserving sides won, you won fair and square. Bringing in decent coaches has worked so far too.

Short term suffering for long term gain.

More a realist. Thought you rated the new coaches beshocked; merely considering them as ok now?

Thats fair enough. We drastically need a shake up - I actually thought after our NZ tour when we gave them a game for 60-70 mins that we may have finally moved on slightly.

wayne wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Biggar wasn't selected last Lions tour so I don't see why people think he will be this time.

If fit then its Sexton all day long.

BW, out of the team that beat England 30-3, the only player that wasn't selected for the Lions from our team was Dan even though he orchestrated the game and completely outclassed his opposite number. They even had the gall to select a full back who had occasionally played O/H in the distant past to be 3rd choice. I believe Howley still held a grudge from the Fiji debacle of a few years earlier
I agree Sexton is No 1, but sorry Dan should be second choice IMO

Wayne,

Wasn't suggesting he should or shouldn't be just can't see him getting picked.

If he wasn't picked from a winning Welsh side I can't see how he'll get selected from a losing Welsh side.

no 7 & 1/2 you are not a realist hence why I generally call you the champion of mediocrity.

Current England coaches are doing a good job.

Munkian that's the problem though, it's not new for Wales to put up a fight against the tri nations, it's victories against tri nations sides that have been lacking. Gatland has clearly not been the coach who will do that.

Wales do have good players but someone needs to come in and get the best out of them.


Now I think the solution for Wales would be to bring in Dai Young. If you look at the way he's improved Wasps and got them playing in a very positive manner, I think Wales could benefit from that.

He's also Welsh obviously.

That's only becuase you don't understand the arguments to be fair though. Good job but only ok as coaches. Think you're being harsh again myself.

beshocked wrote:Now I think the solution for Wales would be to bring in Dai Young. If you look at the way he's improved Wasps and got them playing in a very positive manner, I think Wales could benefit from that.

It's a no-brainer - or it should be.

Going back to Saturday's game, yes our defence was pitiful - but this shouldn't have surprised anyone. Never mind the New Zealand games, remember the two we played against England last season?

It's one thing for us to have a limited, one-dimensional attack - that's nothing new - but our defence has kept us in games in the past, and if that's gone now too, then we really are a busted flush.