6N 2017: Wales v England, 11 February

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WALES v ENGLAND 
11 February 2017
KO:16:50 GMT
Principality Stadium, Cardiff

Live on [ITV, RTE, SC4, FR2, DMAX / BBC (H)]

Referee: Jerome Garces (France)
Touch judges: Pascal Gauzere (France) & Nick Briant (New Zealand)
TMO: Glenn Newman (New Zealand)

A. Head to Head

129 Played 129
57 Won 60
12 Drawn 12
60 Lost 57
1,673 Points 1,518

B. Recent Form 

29 May 2016: Twickenham, London
27 – 13 to England
2016 mid-year rugby union internationals

12 March 2016: Twickenham, London
25 – 21 to England
2016 Six Nations Championship

26 September 2015: Twickenham, London
25 – 28 to Wales
2015 Rugby World Cup Pool A

26 September 2015: Twickenham, London 
25 – 28 to Wales 
2015 Rugby World Cup Pool A 

6 February 2015: Millennium Stadium, Cardiff 
16 – 21 to England 
2015 Six Nations 

9 March 2014: Twickenham Stadium, London 
29 – 18 to England 
2014 Six Nations 

16 March 2013: Millennium Stadium, Cardiff 
30 – 3 to Wales 
2013 Six Nations 

25 February 2012: Twickenham Stadium, London 
12 – 19 to Wales 
2012 Six Nations

13 August 2011: Millennium Stadium, Cardiff 
19 – 9 to Wales 
2011 Rugby World Cup warm up test 

6 August 2011: Twickenham, London 
23 – 19 to England 
2011 Rugby World Cup warm up test 

C. Teams

WALES

15-Leigh Halfpenny, 14-George North, 13-Jonathan Davies, 12-Scott Williams, 11-Liam Williams, 10-Dan Biggar, 9-Rhys Webb; 1-Rob Evans, 2-Ken Owens, 3-Tomas Francis, 4-Jake Ball, 5-Alun Wyn Jones, 6-Sam Warburton, 7-Justin Tipuric; 8-Ross Moriarty.

Replacements: 16-Scott Baldwin, 17-Nicky Smith, 18-Samson Lee, 19-Cory Hill, 20-Taulupe Faletau, 21-Gareth Davies, 22-Sam Davies, 23-Jamie Roberts.

ENGLAND

15-Mike Brown, 14-Jack Nowell, 13-Jonathan Joseph, 12-Owen Farrell, 11-Elliot Daly, 10-George Ford, 9-Ben Youngs; 1-Joe Marler, 2-Dylan Hartley (captain), 3-Dan Cole, 4-Joe Launchbury, 5-Courtney Lawes, 6-Maro Itoje, 7-Jack Clifford, 8-Nathan Hughes.

Replacements: 16-Jamie George, 17-Matt Mullan, 18-Kyle Sinckler, 19-Tom Wood, 20-James Haskell, 21-Danny Care, 22-Ben Te'o, 23-Jonny May.

Stupid decisions cost Wales IMO not taking 3 points twice.

Cuthbert....

Taking off Moriarty when he was smashing England ball carriers.

Launchbury? Terrible carrying, Hughes put in far more work and while not always successful, was enough.

Again Farrell 10 Teo 12 looked excellent.

WOW, that was tight, tighter than i thought it would be.

A good win for England.

The Chariot keeps rolling along.

Hughes was a real step up on last week. He got nailed numerous times but made the hard yards and always set the ball. He was a great outlet all game.

Lawes or Tipuric MOTM for me.

Got destroyed at the breakdown and kicking was awful. Winning ugly.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Good call on Launchbury pooly!

Thought he was poor mate. Made zero impact carrying and got bullied by the Welsh pair who were streets ahead.

MOTM was between two players........Liam Williams and Dan Bigger who were head and shoulders above the rest. An English motm in that game is an insult imo.

so far ahead they lost.

but yeah we need Itoje and Kruis back there.

Congrats England. Good turnaround. Why keep the ball in play? Davies' left boot they rave about. Gash.

Two ugly wins stinks of a Grand Slam

trebellbobaggins wrote:serious question for  Wales.. eng building so much on their kids.. what have you got after this?  it's looking fallow.

Wales have 3 players aged 29 or over in their squad, England have NINE.
Wales also have more players aged 24 or under in their squad (15) than England (13).

Shifty wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Sign of a good side, what England just did, well done for winning a game that frankly no other side could have lost but us.

Scotland could of...

nah, not anymore. Only Wales do this. 75 minutes in the lead and now AWJ is claiming that something other than the result is important. JD2 kicks infield when all we needed was to defend the line out. Give a team like England a sniff with a plum like Cuffbert on the wing then you might as well just walk off the park.

Scottrf wrote:Lawes or Tipuric MOTM for me.

Got destroyed at the breakdown and kicking was awful. Winning ugly.

it's like a team with a shed load of back row inuries.

Unlucky Wales. Better side today I thought. This England team keep using up their get of jail free cards. Great habit to win late/ugly, but they need to get control of the ball and territory better. Kicking game was crap, 8 turnovers to 1 against. Wales attacked the ball in the tackle really well. Wales will be gutted but thought they played Well.

It's scary when you think England were missing 4 of their 1st choice pack! Plus only playing Haskell and George for less than a half.

Oh man, that's a tough, tough loss for Wales to take.

They were the better side for yooj parts of that game and massacred England at the breakdown.

Tiny, tiny margins at the end. 6 points left out there, Baldwin missing with his arrows, Jon Davies with the sliced touchfinder, Cuthbert's appalling defensive alignment and hands like cold tits. Really didn't deserve to lose that and now I need to see Eddie Jones' smug little face in the papers again tomorrow.

And lets just hammer into Cuffbert a bit more.

His contribution; doesn't stop Young's try when that was his job, doesn't retain possession in tackle and hands the ball back to England, flies up on the wing and gives Daly an easy outside.

He needs to be dropped, for good, or we will NEVER get to where we need to be.

Heroic defense for both teams. Generally very clean defense. Everybody spotted the might of or could of been penalties but in general there were so few penalties away by either team.

Wales lost concentration at the end. Intensity huge all game. And we did lose the breakdown - and we just couldn't get hold of the ball. Looked dangerous when we did mind but so few chances

But just enough chances.

England were far from poor. No team in the world would destroy this England team. They are very difficult team to breakdown and to beat. Wales played well at home and still couldnt beat them.

Shifty wrote:

trebellbobaggins wrote:serious question for  Wales.. eng building so much on their kids.. what have you got after this?  it's looking fallow.

Wales have 3 players aged 29 or over in their squad, England have NINE.
Wales also have more players aged 24 or under in their squad (15) than England (13).  

fair answe.  I've been looking at the U20's in recent years and it looks like the young options for Wales are not good going forward.  We shall see though.  looks like wales found this great team and then..... what next ? I suppose I mean England feel much more built around new players.

milkyboy wrote:Unlucky Wales. Better side today I thought. This England team keep using up their get of jail free cards. Great habit to win late/ugly, but they need to get control of the ball and territory better. Kicking game was crap, 8 turnovers to 1 against. Wales attacked the ball in the tackle really well. Wales will be gutted but thought they played Well.

Get out of jail....or developing a mental toughness and drive to win...

Hughes with 67m today, that's some shift against that Welsh defence.

Maro itoje didn't do any walking on water today

Hood83 wrote:Richly underserved, I feel for Wales. It's only our bench and the baffling decision to take off Moriarty that allowed us to win that.

Jones has to make a decision on his best two locks and back them. The experiment with Itoje at 6 isn't working. All three were good but we need Haskell, or someone who can make yards and tackle aggressively. Moriarty and Tipuric murdered Hughes and Clifford.

Our backline also looked poor. Ireland will destroy us and Scotland run us close if we don't improve drastically.

cowpat, who made the decision to take moriarty off?

The Welsh 9 Webb was the best player on the pitch today. He is real class.

And Moriarty + 2 had a fantastic game

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Hughes with 67m today, that's some shift against that Welsh defence.

I bet Launchbury will be quite high...or certainly his number of carries will be

Hughes wasn't that bad but Clifford got schooled. This will serve him well.

Good that there are serious options.

tigertattie wrote:Maro itoje didn't do any walking on water today

Disagree, I thought he was excellent up against a serious operator

Clifford was like a prancing fairy! He needs to learn very much from this game. But yes he is young so has time...like Harrison needs to.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Hughes with 67m today, that's some shift against that Welsh defence.

I bet Launchbury will be quite high...or certainly his number of carries will be

18 carries with 16m made mate. Although he topped the tackle stats with 20.

trebellbobaggins wrote:

Shifty wrote:

trebellbobaggins wrote:serious question for  Wales.. eng building so much on their kids.. what have you got after this?  it's looking fallow.

Wales have 3 players aged 29 or over in their squad, England have NINE.
Wales also have more players aged 24 or under in their squad (15) than England (13).  

fair answe.  I've been looking at the U20's in recent years and it looks like the young options for Wales are not good going forward.  We shall see though.  looks like wales found this great team and then..... what next ?  I suppose I mean England feel much more built around new players.

You must have missed the game last year in Bristol.

And I've said it before, having good under 20s teams does not generate future success. Hugo Ellis, Alex gray etc proved being good in age grade does not mean stepping up to the next level successfully

This teaM won grand slams so I don't understand your what next comment

Frak knows how we pulled that off!! Fantastic game of test match rugby, defo take the win, but huge improvements needed!

trebellbobaggins wrote:

Shifty wrote:

trebellbobaggins wrote:serious question for  Wales.. eng building so much on their kids.. what have you got after this?  it's looking fallow.

Wales have 3 players aged 29 or over in their squad, England have NINE.
Wales also have more players aged 24 or under in their squad (15) than England (13).  

fair answe.  I've been looking at the U20's in recent years and it looks like the young options for Wales are not good going forward.  We shall see though.  looks like wales found this great team and then..... what next ?  I suppose I mean England feel much more built around new players.

England have depth so chop and change a lot if players aren't performing.  Wales have no depth at all so whomever is fit will play, hence why young Welsh players have been around for ever it seems, while England always look like they have new players.  
Look at Cuthbert, he would only get into Wales or Italy.  Wales are so short of wings we had no other option, though in balance having 14 men might of been better based on the amount of errors he made in the last few minutes.

Also Wales won the U20 grand slam last year. We only did bad in the U20 World Cup because we lost by 1 point to both Ireland and NEw Zealand in the pool stages.

Oh and England backs were fine. It was the turnovers which did us but they looked dangerous when they had the chance

nathan wrote:

Hood83 wrote:Richly underserved, I feel for Wales. It's only our bench and the baffling decision to take off Moriarty that allowed us to win that.

Jones has to make a decision on his best two locks and back them. The experiment with Itoje at 6 isn't working. All three were good but we need Haskell, or someone who can make yards and tackle aggressively. Moriarty and Tipuric murdered Hughes and Clifford.

Our backline also looked poor. Ireland will destroy us and Scotland run us close if we don't improve drastically.

cowpat, who made the decision to take moriarty off?

Quite so, it was a stupid decision, I still think it made a huge impact.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Hughes with 67m today, that's some shift against that Welsh defence.

I bet Launchbury will be quite high...or certainly his number of carries will be

18 carries with 16m made mate. Although he topped the tackle stats with 20.

Not a huge distance but a lot of carries mostly in heavy traffic. Every one of those makes Wales players have to tackle him. And a huge tackle count. A very good shift

Just watched the end again.. Cuthbert is not good enough is he.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Hughes with 67m today, that's some shift against that Welsh defence.

I bet Launchbury will be quite high...or certainly his number of carries will be

18 carries with 16m made mate. Although he topped the tackle stats with 20.

I'm amazed Hughes made that many yards, but I think it's just he got hammered back quite visibly in 2 or 3.

Great game to watch as a neutral.

I do feel a bit bad for Wales. Think they were the better side on the day, but wouldn't begrudge England the win. They took their chance well at the end to claim victory.

For Wales, it was definitely a big improvement on their last game. You're not out of the competition yet.

Shifty wrote:

trebellbobaggins wrote:

Shifty wrote:

trebellbobaggins wrote:serious question for  Wales.. eng building so much on their kids.. what have you got after this?  it's looking fallow.

Wales have 3 players aged 29 or over in their squad, England have NINE.
Wales also have more players aged 24 or under in their squad (15) than England (13).  

fair answe.  I've been looking at the U20's in recent years and it looks like the young options for Wales are not good going forward.  We shall see though.  looks like wales found this great team and then..... what next ?  I suppose I mean England feel much more built around new players.

England have depth so chop and change a lot if players aren't performing.  Wales have no depth at all so whomever is fit will play, hence why young Welsh players have been around for ever it seems, while England always look like they have new players.  
Look at Cuthbert, he would only get into Wales or Italy.  Wales are so short of wings we had no other option, though in balance having 14 men might of been better based on the amount of errors he made in the last few minutes.  

We have a wing. Steff Evans ripping up trees for Scarlets. Only Wales wouldn't pick on form. We truly reap what we sow

So i guess this week end against Wales. It is England 3 Wales 0.

I really thought Wales was going to win that game today. Why oh Why did JD not kick the ball dead?

It begs the question was Howley right to bring in Cuthbert for North? Or should he have trusted a other winger?

Hood83 wrote:

nathan wrote:

Hood83 wrote:Richly underserved, I feel for Wales. It's only our bench and the baffling decision to take off Moriarty that allowed us to win that.

Jones has to make a decision on his best two locks and back them. The experiment with Itoje at 6 isn't working. All three were good but we need Haskell, or someone who can make yards and tackle aggressively. Moriarty and Tipuric murdered Hughes and Clifford.

Our backline also looked poor. Ireland will destroy us and Scotland run us close if we don't improve drastically.

cowpat, who made the decision to take moriarty off?

Quite so, it was a stupid decision, I still think it made a huge impact.

For me it shows a lack of experience or ability when a coach takes off one of his best players just because it's in his notes to do so. Should be making these decisions based on how the players and the game are going.

England back 3 definitely a work in progress.

When to move Brown on is such a tough question to answer. He has such a great positional understanding and such an individual attacking style. Is there yet a better 15 out there?

I'd try Nowell at some stage and would love to see wingers on the wing.

A real mixed bag for England:
- scrum unbelievably solid.
- line out looked a little vulnerable but genuinely within acceptable margin of error.
- Ford passed well but his kicking out of hand yielded a few stinkers.
- they got destroyed at the breakdown, however - the backrow balance is not good at all.
- subs bench is down pat, however - George, Haskell, Teo and Care all made a big impact yet again.
- Launchbury was very industrious and put in some big hits.
- Hughes about as mobile as a runaway piano and the likes of Moriarty lined him up all day.
- Nowell and Daly always looked dangerous although they didn't have much possession to work with.
- Itoje was relatively quiet, or as his legion of fanboys would have it, a world class Lions starter.
- Farrell very good yet again, especially in defence.

Yeah i agree, Cuthbert gets picked for his "experience" and because of his form 4 years ago ffs. He can't play rugby let alone international rugby. He is a klutz, a buffoon of the highest order who lacks any of the necessary dog to be an international back 3 player.
And because he's quite large -which Gatland is obsessed by -and Howley just doesn't have the cohones to pick form players.

And why take Moriarty off, he was hammering the English back. Likewise Williams, a like for like with Doc but Williams was playing superbly. Should have taken JD2 off and moved SW out.

Only Ireland can stop England now though i hope the Scots do it but i just can't see it.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

milkyboy wrote:Unlucky Wales. Better side today I thought. This England team keep using up their get of jail free cards. Great habit to win late/ugly, but they need to get control of the ball and territory better. Kicking game was crap, 8 turnovers to 1 against. Wales attacked the ball in the tackle really well. Wales will be gutted but thought they played Well.

Get out of jail....or developing a mental toughness and drive to win...

Both

Morriarty going off was massive. Poor call in my opinion. But thank you Rob for doing that!

Well played Wales, Well played England and thank you Rob Howley for selecting Cuthbert

Shifty wrote:

trebellbobaggins wrote:

Shifty wrote:

trebellbobaggins wrote:serious question for  Wales.. eng building so much on their kids.. what have you got after this?  it's looking fallow.

Wales have 3 players aged 29 or over in their squad, England have NINE.
Wales also have more players aged 24 or under in their squad (15) than England (13).  

fair answe.  I've been looking at the U20's in recent years and it looks like the young options for Wales are not good going forward.  We shall see though.  looks like wales found this great team and then..... what next ?  I suppose I mean England feel much more built around new players.

England have depth so chop and change a lot if players aren't performing.  Wales have no depth at all so whomever is fit will play, hence why young Welsh players have been around for ever it seems, while England always look like they have new players.  
Look at Cuthbert, he would only get into Wales or Italy.  Wales are so short of wings we had no other option, though in balance having 14 men might of been better based on the amount of errors he made in the last few minutes.  

yes that seems very fair to me. Cuthbert is truly terrible.

They'll be too gutted to be reflective I would think, but parts of that were the best that Wales has played in 6 months:
- finally, we can actually say that Warbuton is back and looks like a test class player.
- don't understand the comments that Tipuric is a luxury player - he is looking more and more vital for Wales.
- Moriarty feisty and I presume was injured - otherwise his substitution was a mistake, even for a class act like Falatau.
- JD2 was completely anonymous from what I saw and we all know what happened with That Touchfinder.
- Scott Williams was very good - a low error player and strong defensively.
- Class from the 9s as usual.
- Ball worked his big beardy arse off and deserved his place - where is Luke Charteris at the moment?
- L Williams by far the most dangerous back on the park. He has to be in with a shout for a Lions test place.
- Front row given a bit of a duffing in the scrums, but always looked for work.
- Scott Baldwin needs to sort out his throwing. He reminds me of Ross Ford and that is not a compliment.
- Cuthbert - please, please play against Scotland. We need Stuart Hogg and Tommy Seymour blasting down your channel at every possible opportunity.
- In summary, huge effort and a lot of classy moments - just a few too many errors.

To be fair Moriarty was able to play the way he did as he knew he was only on for 50mins. Plus with Toby in the bench it wasn't that big a call imho

GeordieFalcon wrote:Clifford was like a prancing fairy! He needs to learn very much from this game. But yes he is young so has time...like Harrison needs to.

Watch Youngs' try again. Clifford shifts on the floor to create the hole that Youngs dives into. Cuthbert should have spotted it but it was a cute move. Clifford is clearly not the finished article yet, but in a back row that had so little experience and in a tight game that doesn't suit his running style he played his part.

George Carlin wrote:A real mixed bag for England:
- scrum unbelievably solid.
- line out looked a little vulnerable but genuinely within acceptable margin of error.
- Ford passed well but his kicking out of hand yielded a few stinkers.
- they got destroyed at the breakdown, however - the backrow balance is not good at all.
- subs bench is down pat, however - George, Haskell, Teo and Care all made a big impact yet again.
- Launchbury was very industrious and put in some big hits.
- Hughes about as mobile as a runaway piano and the likes of Moriarty lined him up all day.
- Nowell and Daly always looked dangerous although they didn't have much possession to work with.  
- Itoje was relatively quiet, or as his legion of fanboys would have it, a world class Lions starter.
- Farrell very good yet again, especially in defence.  

oh Itoje is world class.. just a world class second row is all.