Lions 2017 - the decider

by **RDW** Wed 31 May 2017, 9:03 am

First topic message reminder :

Lions 2017 - the decider - Page 12 R2fRSPlg

After months if not years, of debate, arguments and plenty bickering the time has come - The Lions are in New Zealand and the tour has begun!

I think it is fair to say that if you're not a fan of the concept of the Lions then this isn't the thread to bring it up - we have had plenty of that over several months and the debate has been done to death. This thread will hopefully be a positive place where those excited about the tour (like me!) can talk about everything that's going on. That's until Jamie Roberts gets a callup of course... Run

3 June - Provincial union team (Toll Stadium, Whangarei)

7 June - Blues (Eden Park, Auckland)

10 June - Crusaders (AMI Stadium, Christchurch)

13 June - Highlanders (Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin)

17 June - Maori (International Stadium, Rotorua)

20 June - Chiefs (Waikato Stadium, Hamilton)

24 June - New Zealand (First Test, Eden Park, Auckland)

27 June - Hurricanes (Westpac Stadium, Wellington)

1 July - New Zealand (Second Test, Westpac Stadium, Wellington)

8 July - New Zealand (Third Test, Eden Park, Auckland)

Lions 2017 - the decider - Page 12 Lions20131024x768_2947826

Lions 2017 - the decider - Page 12 Lions20131024x768_2947826

by Scottrf Fri 07 Jul 2017, 11:13 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Cyril wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:Sexton isnt the player he was and yet has as OH defeated the ABs twice in the last 12 months and England once at out half. Hmmmm
He also 'guided' Ireland to a thorough humping by Wales a few months ago.

Yeah the games Barnes yellow carded him.

I remember that. Barnes pulled Sexton so he fell on the wrong side after his tackle and obstructed the ball.

by beshocked Fri 07 Jul 2017, 11:15 am

Both Sexton and Farrell do have good experience of beating the ABs, that's true.

I personally think Gatland should have shown favour to just 1 as a starting 10 not shoehorn both in.

As Murray is his 9, Farrell should be sacrificed.

Gunsgerms I wouldn't disagree with those changes. I'd still have Mako on the bench though.

by GunsGermsV2 Fri 07 Jul 2017, 11:16 am

Barnes said he was lying on the ball. He was actually under Davies who was lying on the ball which was between Sexton and Davies. Barnes couldnt wait to get the card out of his pocket. Worlds worst ref.

by No 7&1/2 Fri 07 Jul 2017, 11:16 am

Ha. One day we'll get to know what owen did to beshocked. It'll be in Farrells autobiography.

by Scottrf Fri 07 Jul 2017, 11:17 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Barnes said he was lying on the ball. He was actually under Davies who was lying on the ball which was between Sexton and Davies. Barnes couldnt wait to get the card out of his pocket. Worlds worst ref.

I love this one about length of time before the card. But if he takes a while before showing the card he's milking it for attention.

How long is he supposed to wait?

by GunsGermsV2 Fri 07 Jul 2017, 11:17 am

beshocked wrote:Both Sexton and Farrell do have good experience of beating the ABs, that's true.

I personally think Gatland should have shown favour to just 1 as a starting 10 not shoehorn both in.

As Murray is his 9, Farrell should be sacrificed.

Gunsgerms I wouldn't disagree with those changes. I'd still have Mako on the bench though.

Before the start of the tour I though Sexton and Farrell together would be the best option. It hasnt worked though IMO.

by Cyril Fri 07 Jul 2017, 11:17 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Barnes said he was lying on the ball. He was actually under Davies who was lying on the ball which was between Sexton and Davies. Barnes couldnt wait to get the card out of his pocket. Worlds worst ref.

It's been a while since the latest Barnes rant (well, in forum terms anyway).

I wonder if Barnes has still got his old school tie?

by Cyril Fri 07 Jul 2017, 11:18 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
beshocked wrote:Both Sexton and Farrell do have good experience of beating the ABs, that's true.

I personally think Gatland should have shown favour to just 1 as a starting 10 not shoehorn both in.

As Murray is his 9, Farrell should be sacrificed.

Gunsgerms I wouldn't disagree with those changes. I'd still have Mako on the bench though.

Before the start of the tour I though Sexton and Farrell together would be the best option. It hasnt worked though IMO.

Is it because Sexton isn't as good as Ford?

by mikey_dragon Fri 07 Jul 2017, 11:18 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ha. One day we'll get to know what owen did to beshocked. It'll be in Farrells autobiography.

I can't wait for AWJs autobiography.

by GunsGermsV2 Fri 07 Jul 2017, 11:19 am

Scottrf wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:Barnes said he was lying on the ball. He was actually under Davies who was lying on the ball which was between Sexton and Davies. Barnes couldnt wait to get the card out of his pocket. Worlds worst ref.
I love this one about length of time before the card. But if he takes a while before showing the card he's milking it for attention.

How long is he supposed to wait?

Who cares? Is that the right answer? Barnes is a disaster and has had a terrible career of controversy. only Steve Walsh can compete with him for incompetence.

by Scottrf Fri 07 Jul 2017, 11:19 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Ha. One day we'll get to know what owen did to beshocked. It'll be in Farrells autobiography.

I can't wait for AWJs autobiography.

'Pride and Passion: How to Sing an Anthem Really Loud'.

by No 7&1/2 Fri 07 Jul 2017, 11:20 am

I hear that may have quite a large impact on how sportsmen are viewed mikey so I'd be interested to read it myself.

by Scottrf Fri 07 Jul 2017, 11:20 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Who cares? Is that the right answer? Barnes is a disaster and has had a terrible career of controversy. only Steve Walsh can compete with him for incompetence.

To be fair I agree.

by GunsGermsV2 Fri 07 Jul 2017, 11:20 am

Cyril wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
beshocked wrote:Both Sexton and Farrell do have good experience of beating the ABs, that's true.

I personally think Gatland should have shown favour to just 1 as a starting 10 not shoehorn both in.

As Murray is his 9, Farrell should be sacrificed.

Gunsgerms I wouldn't disagree with those changes. I'd still have Mako on the bench though.

Before the start of the tour I though Sexton and Farrell together would be the best option. It hasnt worked though IMO.
Is it because Sexton isn't as good as Ford?

No because Farrell isnt as good a defender as we all thought.

by mikey_dragon Fri 07 Jul 2017, 11:20 am

Scottrf wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Ha. One day we'll get to know what owen did to beshocked. It'll be in Farrells autobiography.

I can't wait for AWJs autobiography.
'Pride and Passion: How to Sing an Anthem Really Loud'.

by Scottrf Fri 07 Jul 2017, 11:22 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
No because Farrell isnt as good a defender as we all thought.

0 tries conceded against the All Blacks starting at 12. Perhaps he's better.

by Guest Fri 07 Jul 2017, 11:23 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
ebop wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:Sexton isnt the player he was and yet has as OH defeated the ABs twice in the last 12 months and England once at out half. Hmmmm

But Farrell has a 33% win ratio vs NZ. Sexton's is only 25%.

I love all these "factoid" stats on a limited sample size to back up opinions we already hold don't you

Guns thinks Ireland are special because they beat the ABs once

Until England are tested against the ABs Ireland are the ABs biggest challenger at the moment. Shame the ABs are dodging Ireland and England in November. 2 and 3 in the world.

The ABs were ambushed in Chicago and you got the win you guys have so desperately craved for sooooo long. Think you'll find the ABs will treat Ireland like England from now on so get used to a string of losses in future.

by GunsGermsV2 Fri 07 Jul 2017, 11:25 am

I tell you something I would be delighted if Farrell has a great day and we blitz New Zealand but I cant see it happening.

For that to happen I think to do that the pack is more important than anything and Farrell is always going to look better going forward than defending all the time. Collectively the pack has been disappointing and I suspect it will be more of the same which is why Teo at 12 makes more sense.

New Zealand won the forward battle in two tests once with a man less and that just not good enough.

by beshocked Fri 07 Jul 2017, 11:26 am

no 7 & 1/2 why? I just don't think the Lions should pick both Sexton and Farrell.

If it was Webb-Farrell I'd take Sexton out of the 23, as it is Murray-Sexton I don't see space for Farrell.

I doubt Farrell would write anything in his autobiography about it unless he'd want to humiliate himself. No one does that purposely.

I agree gunsgerms I'd be delighted if Sexton-Farrell partnership works on song, just see it as unlikely.

by GunsGermsV2 Fri 07 Jul 2017, 11:27 am

Scottrf wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
No because Farrell isnt as good a defender as we all thought.
0 tries conceded against the All Blacks starting at 12. Perhaps he's better.

Thought it was a 22 man effort?

In the first test the ABs went through Farrell all day. His defense wasnt much better in the second missing a fairly standard tackle on Kaino who luckly was then subbed off.

by GunsGermsV2 Fri 07 Jul 2017, 11:29 am

ebop wrote:

The ABs were ambushed in Chicago and you got the win you guys have so desperately craved for sooooo long. Think you'll find the ABs will treat Ireland like England from now on so get used to a string of losses in future.

Sounds like it was a fluke? I recall the ABs winning the game before with a last minute conversion in the 85th minute no?

The ABs must not be very smart if they were ambushed by a side that they scraped past by the skin of their teeth in the previous match.

by No 7&1/2 Fri 07 Jul 2017, 11:29 am

Lol. So he humiliated himself and made you angry. The drip of info is intriguing. Must have been bad as you went from a big fan to saying yud prefer ford at Saracens now not wanting him for the lions. Think he played pretty well at 12. Hand in 2 tries.

by GunsGermsV2 Fri 07 Jul 2017, 11:35 am

Aparently there will be more Lions fans at Eden Park than ABs fans. Home game atmosphere:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11887288

by BamBam Fri 07 Jul 2017, 11:39 am

Scottrf wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Ha. One day we'll get to know what owen did to beshocked. It'll be in Farrells autobiography.

I can't wait for AWJs autobiography.
'Pride and Passion: How to Sing an Anthem Really Loud'.

Once he's done one, I can't wait for the sequel - Passion and Experience

by beshocked Fri 07 Jul 2017, 11:44 am

no 7 & 1/2 yes but you misunderstand. If he's the best player I want him in not for my sake but for others.

I still think you must stick with one of Sexton or Farrell, not both.

As for Ford, he's grown on me. I still think he's a bit weak physically in the tackle but he's a good attacking player and deserves to be starting 10 for England as things stand.

Farrell is still a very accomplished player. I just don't think he's particularly likable.

I really don't want Saracens to lose Malins or Lozowski, there's a danger of that. If Saracens are going to offload a 10 you know who I'd pick..... Whistle

by BamBam Fri 07 Jul 2017, 11:46 am

Haven't you spent a couple of seasons arguing against everyone who has been saying that Ford is "weak" in defence (i.e. won't smash anyone back but makes his tackles) but great in attack which makes up for it

by beshocked Fri 07 Jul 2017, 11:55 am

Pretty sure the argument was that Ford was a good defender which I disagree with. Look I am in agreement that he's doing well enough to hold onto the 10 shirt. Still need convincing he's a good defender.

I haven't really been that vocal in dropping Ford have I?

by No 7&1/2 Fri 07 Jul 2017, 11:56 am

You'd rather lose Farrell at Saracens?

by beshocked Fri 07 Jul 2017, 12:02 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:You'd rather lose Farrell at Saracens?

Depends on wage demands I guess. It's much cheaper to hold onto and develop a young prospect like Malins.

Max Malins is meant to be very good. It would be regrettable to lose him to a rival.

Now I don't know how Malins compares to the likes of Farrell and Ford but I wouldn't want him to leave.

Would I rather lose Farrell compared to the Vunipola Bros,George,Itoje or Kruis? Yes.

Is Farrell potentially easier to replace? I'd say Yes.

by TightHEAD Fri 07 Jul 2017, 12:16 pm

If I arrange it for Farrell to sign your Retro Sarries Shirt would you be happy with him Beshocked?

by No 7&1/2 Fri 07 Jul 2017, 12:45 pm

Malins looks very good from the handful of u20.appearances I've seen. I think they'll push Lozowski back to full back. I'll side step all the jokes about the cap...

by nlpnlp Fri 07 Jul 2017, 1:01 pm

beshocked

"Now I don't know how Malins compares to the likes of Farrell and Ford but I wouldn't want him to leave."

So you have no idea how good he is, but you are happy to lose a 25 year 50+ international cap, 2 time Lion, and replace him with the unknown potential of Malins. Sounds bright.

by BigTrevsbigmac Fri 07 Jul 2017, 1:16 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Ha. One day we'll get to know what owen did to beshocked. It'll be in Farrells autobiography.

I can't wait for AWJs autobiography.

It will have an enthusiastic aggressive preface before the start. But will then be slow going & end fairly quickly. I suspect Gats has already bought a few thousand pre release though.

by beshocked Fri 07 Jul 2017, 2:36 pm

nlpnlp wrote:beshocked

"Now I don't know how Malins compares to the likes of Farrell and Ford but I wouldn't want him to leave."

So you have no idea how good he is, but you are happy to lose a 25 year 50+ international cap, 2 time Lion, and replace him with the unknown potential of Malins. Sounds bright.

Well no I don't have a crystal ball. I can generally predict quite well how these things can go but I don't how exactly how as a prospect he compares to Ford and Farrell.

I mention those 2 as they were also obviously ex U20s players.

It's not being happy to lose a 25 year old with that experience. You seriously think Saracens will be able to hold onto all their internationals in the next 2 years as well as all the prospects? I'd say no.

Surely you'd regret losing a very bright prospect? Saracens have in general been good at turning academy prospects into internationals.

Farrell's salary demands might be too much.

by wayne Fri 07 Jul 2017, 3:00 pm

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Ha. One day we'll get to know what owen did to beshocked. It'll be in Farrells autobiography.

I can't wait for AWJs autobiography.

It will have an enthusiastic aggressive preface before the start. But will then be slow going & end fairly quickly. I suspect Gats has already bought a few thousand pre release though.

If little titbits that he came out with this week are anything to go by concerning the 2013 Lions Captaincy, are improved on, it should be an excellent read.

by Sgt_Pooly Sat 08 Jul 2017, 7:42 am

Good to see Rory Best in a vital position today.....on the commentary team.

by eirebilly Sat 08 Jul 2017, 8:05 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Good to see Rory Best in a vital position today.....on the commentary team.

You were once a poster who I could have a decent debate with and certainly a poster who carried himself well on this board. Since the Lions you have really turned into a poor poster....

by eirebilly Sat 08 Jul 2017, 8:20 am

Anyways, hon the Lions.

I don't have much optimism for the game today but I do hope the Lions can cause an upset.

by Sgt_Pooly Sat 08 Jul 2017, 8:24 am

eirebilly wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Good to see Rory Best in a vital position today.....on the commentary team.

You were once a poster who I could have a decent debate with and certainly a poster who carried himself well on this board. Since the Lions you have really turned into a poor poster....

Only a bit of jest at Best Billy, I'll stop I promise.

I may need to report you for insinuating I carry myself well on these boards though Wink

by eirebilly Sat 08 Jul 2017, 8:26 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Good to see Rory Best in a vital position today.....on the commentary team.

You were once a poster who I could have a decent debate with and certainly a poster who carried himself well on this board. Since the Lions you have really turned into a poor poster....

Only a bit of jest at Best Billy, I'll stop I promise.

I may need to report you for insinuating I carry myself well on these boards though

by chris_501 Sat 08 Jul 2017, 8:30 am

Is anyone able to message me a decent link for the game?

by yappysnap Sat 08 Jul 2017, 8:35 am

chris_501 wrote:Is anyone able to message me a decent link for the game?

+1

by **RiscaGame** Sat 08 Jul 2017, 8:40 am

Strange call on warburton, followed by a neck roll on him too.

by **RDW** Sat 08 Jul 2017, 8:43 am

All Blacks missing chances

by Scottrf Sat 08 Jul 2017, 8:48 am

Great defensive composure from Davies.

by **RiscaGame** Sat 08 Jul 2017, 8:48 am

Yes Foxy.

by **Pal Joey** Sat 08 Jul 2017, 8:48 am

Wow.. great passage of play. Heart in mouth stuff.

by No 7&1/2 Sat 08 Jul 2017, 8:48 am

Ha Farrell has not started well!

by No 7&1/2 Sat 08 Jul 2017, 8:50 am

Please let it be a knock on

by mikey_dragon Sat 08 Jul 2017, 8:50 am

Why is Farrell doing his best to lose us the game? Can you imagine the uproar if it was AWJ....

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