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The Dew Drop Inn Virtual Rugby Pub

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Portnoy
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Dave.
PenfroPete
KiaRose
rodders
Notch
perthshirepuma
MrsP
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MBTGOG
Mick(TEFC)
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Pal Joey
AsLongAsBut100ofUs
Pete C (Kiwireddevil)
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Cari
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Mrs Penfro
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Post by Guest Wed 12 Oct 2011, 8:38 pm

First topic message reminder :

Welcome to the virtual rugby pub - a place where you can come in for a sly beverage and discuss whatever's on your mind, or just eavesdrop on the regulars if you fancy a break from all the rugby chat.

The only rule in this pub is one of mutual respect for everyone in it, oh and no defacing the collage of pub regulars. We've got the big group pic from the HEC final in Cardiff, plus insets of ll those who couldn't make it

So pull up a chair....what'll it be?

Ale cuppa coffee mug guinness cider RedWine Bubbly Wales

Hen dafarn/Old pub: https://www.606v2.com/t15642p1000-the-dew-drop-inn-virtual-rugby-pub#576037


Last edited by rugbydreamer on Wed 12 Oct 2011, 8:44 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Post by red_stag Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:34 pm

Why does it annoy you as i see it it has only benefits. Any fool could learn the laws. Reffing is about management
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Post by Cymroglan Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:35 pm

Because both sides needs to know what is being said.

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Post by Notch Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:35 pm

I think they have an attitude that they can speak their own language. Whats your second language? Would you like to be interviewed on national TV in it? Hmm.
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Post by Notch Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:35 pm

Cymroglan wrote:Because both sides needs to know what is being said.

Unless they're French Whistle
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Post by Cymroglan Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:36 pm

English and yes I would have no problem being interviewed in it .

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Post by Cymroglan Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:37 pm

Notch wrote:
Cymroglan wrote:Because both sides needs to know what is being said.

Unless they're French Whistle

Or unable to understand French

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Post by Notch Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:38 pm

Or unable to understand English. We could do this all day.
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Post by red_stag Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:39 pm

Cymroglan wrote:Because both sides needs to know what is being said.
This is a pipe dream not practical in the global game. It is easily remedied. Ref simply says to other team Ive warned them
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Post by Cari Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:40 pm

Afternoon everyone. coffee

I have no voice, a throat like sandpaper aand I'm knackered. But it was worth it Smile Hope I can get up tomorrow for the other semi.

Prop - well done on the six quid. Drinks on you then! Smile

I don't think France win the tournament altogether.

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Post by Cymroglan Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:48 pm

red_stag wrote:
Cymroglan wrote:Because both sides needs to know what is being said.
This is a pipe dream not practical in the global game. It is easily remedied. Ref simply says to other team Ive warned them

So Rolland can speak French with the French players but English with other teams even if it's not their first language.
I don't agree with that.

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Post by Guest Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:50 pm

red_stag wrote:Why bring it up if not questioing his mindset?

It had already been brought up. I have to be as clear as I can here.

I do not believe that Rolland was being biased when showing the red card.

But I can see why some people may think so because there is a link between Rolland and France. While there is a small pool of quality refs to choose from I firmly believe these allegations can be avoided, and I feel very sorry for Rolland (Owens and others) that their integrity can be called into question when it can be avoided.

I don't mean any offence and I'm sorry if I've caused any.


Last edited by Red_Dragon_Spirit on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:52 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Being bold!)

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Post by red_stag Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:52 pm

Cymro if a ref speaks that language he should use that as a management tool. If not then English.
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Post by Notch Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:52 pm

Cymroglan wrote:
red_stag wrote:
Cymroglan wrote:Because both sides needs to know what is being said.
This is a pipe dream not practical in the global game. It is easily remedied. Ref simply says to other team Ive warned them

So Rolland can speak French with the French players but English with other teams even if it's not their first language.
I don't agree with that.

Well, if he spoke other languages he could. I can't see how France derive an advantage from that anymore than all the English speaking sides have an in-built advantage with the majority of referees..
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Post by Cari Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:57 pm

Just out of genuine interest, are there any Irish speaking refs? I don't suppose they use it much, but I just wondered.

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Post by Notch Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:58 pm

I don't know. I don't know if enough of our players speak Irish for it to be worthwhile though. I know a few do and most from the South at least have a little bit of Irish from school, but for most of the national squad and the provinces English is the first language.


Last edited by Notch on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 2:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Gibson Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:58 pm

I think ALL top NH refs should have 3 languages - proficient enough in rugby terms. English, French and Italian.

Its not much to ask.
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Post by Notch Sat 15 Oct 2011, 2:00 pm

No, it's not. I think Spanish could be added to that as well.
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Post by Cymroglan Sat 15 Oct 2011, 2:01 pm

Ref Mic should the touch judges need to know everything that the ref has said ?
I think that would be very important if the three of them are going to be on the same wavelength.

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Post by Cari Sat 15 Oct 2011, 2:03 pm

All NH refs should speak English, French, Italian, Irish and Welsh...not much to ask laughing

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Post by Cymroglan Sat 15 Oct 2011, 2:04 pm

Mr G I'm gutted just as you were last week but there are people far worse off than us.
I'm off on holiday tomorrow back next Saturday.

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Post by Guest Sat 15 Oct 2011, 2:06 pm

Gibson wrote:I think ALL top NH refs should have 3 languages - proficient enough in rugby terms. English, French and Italian.

Its not much to ask.

Hey Gibbo.. long time no see...

I agree, but I also see no reason why players (particularly captains) cannot improve their language skills, particularly with the way professionalism is taking players around the globe. So many advantages to be had, understanding your own team mates and the officials being 2, never mind the cultural benefits!

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Post by Guest Sat 15 Oct 2011, 2:07 pm

Sorry.. Hi Cari too!

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Post by MrsP Sat 15 Oct 2011, 2:08 pm

Just watched the game in time lapse.

I'm not Welsh and have never even been to Wales but even I feel so proud of the preformance of that team.

To lose by only 1 point in a RWC semi final while playing one man down for 62 mins is an outstanding acheivement.

clap Hug

On the card thing, I can see why it was Red but it just seems out of keeping with the way other matches have been handled.

On the other hand, how weak were France to only win by 1 point against 14 men for 62 mins?


Last edited by MrsP on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 2:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by red_stag Sat 15 Oct 2011, 2:09 pm

France will be crushed in the final. Wales would have been more competitive in the final
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Post by Notch Sat 15 Oct 2011, 2:11 pm

To be fair, other tackles like that have gotten citings and suspensions after the fact in this tournament so far. But this is the first red.

Inconsistency and interpretation remains an issue for teams. What I found amazing is how few fans and even former players were up to date on the actual laws and directives regarding this.
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Post by Gibson Sat 15 Oct 2011, 2:11 pm

Very true Cymro mate. I think you should be really proud of your boys. Best rugby team in the NH, imo. A team that will only get better, based on that run.. So young. So talented. And now, so much more experienced.

Enjoy your break fy ffrind /mo chara/ mes amis/ mijn vriend /mi amigo/ my friend. OK
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Post by MrsP Sat 15 Oct 2011, 2:19 pm

Have a great holiday Cymro.

Obviously I have only seen and heard the commentary on WRC matches on ITV and RTE so I don't know it other commentators acted in a similar fashion but, does anyone else think that commentators need to behave in a more responsible fashion?

Is it really that long ago when they would stop way short of criticising the ref?

I actually think this is hastening the decline in attitudes towards the refs by spectators. And in turn may be contributing to the kind of abuse that has been hurled at some refs in this tournament.

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Post by Notch Sat 15 Oct 2011, 2:22 pm

Yeah ITV were completely disgraceful in their coverage. It was very annoying. I had to turn off the TV at the end. According to other posters in here the commentators on RTE and S4C conceded it was a red card.

I agree with you.
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Post by Cymroglan Sat 15 Oct 2011, 2:25 pm

Thanks MrsP we are only going as far as the Lake Districts for a walking holiday we rented a cottage up there.

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Post by Suspicious lurker Sat 15 Oct 2011, 2:29 pm

Why shouldn't France conduct their press conference in French?? It's only right that they do. Just as this man says

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfUmW_Mf5qc&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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Post by Cymroglan Sat 15 Oct 2011, 2:31 pm

hughie1986 wrote:Why shouldn't France conduct their press conference in French?? It's only right that they do. Just as this man says

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfUmW_Mf5qc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

And in New Zealand Very Happy

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Post by Gibson Sat 15 Oct 2011, 2:43 pm

Red_Dragon_Spirit wrote:
Gibson wrote:I think ALL top NH refs should have 3 languages - proficient enough in rugby terms. English, French and Italian.

Its not much to ask.

Hey Gibbo.. long time no see...

I agree, but I also see no reason why players (particularly captains) cannot improve their language skills, particularly with the way professionalism is taking players around the globe. So many advantages to be had, understanding your own team mates and the officials being 2, never mind the cultural benefits!

Howya RDS. Great to see you again pal. Ale
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Post by Cymroglan Sat 15 Oct 2011, 2:48 pm

When you next over in Ireland Gibbo ?

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Post by Thomond Sat 15 Oct 2011, 2:49 pm

Are people seriously suggesting that Rolland should speak in English to the French team? Having a second language is a great asset to have for referees. It is a riduclous statement.

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Post by Cymroglan Sat 15 Oct 2011, 2:58 pm

Yes Thomond English should be the official language of the rugby world cup.
When the day comes that we have refs that speak several languages then and only then should other languages be used.

The ref needs to be in constant contact with his touch judges via Ref Mic they need to know what is said at all times.


Last edited by Cymroglan on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 3:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by red_stag Sat 15 Oct 2011, 3:03 pm

Why do the assistants need to know. Ideally I would have all rugby English too but with key terms that referees may only use. Colloqialisms should have no part
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Post by Gibson Sat 15 Oct 2011, 3:03 pm

Cymroglan wrote:When you next over in Ireland Gibbo ?

I'll be over to see the Mam soon, Cymro. Early Nov. Not going to any of the home Leinster HC games this year. 1st time in 5 or 6 years I will miss even one. Home or away.

Going to Bath for the Big Meet though. You around for that weekend mate? Scarlets game?
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Post by Cymroglan Sat 15 Oct 2011, 3:06 pm

Yes I'm going on the Scarlets trip not sure about the Bristol one though.

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Post by MBTGOG Sat 15 Oct 2011, 3:07 pm

Didn't see the game so can't comment on any of the talking points. I feel for Wales but I people don't forget how well they've played in this competition and how bright the future looks.

Played a match this morning. We got hammered but I was playing out of position at left back and thought I did well.


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Post by Thomond Sat 15 Oct 2011, 3:08 pm

If refs spoke Spanish,Italian or other I doubt people would mind them refereeing games involving those teams. It could help them understand what they're doing wrong a lot better.

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Post by Guest Sat 15 Oct 2011, 3:09 pm

Cymroglan wrote:Yes Thomond English should be the official language of the rugby world cup.
When the day comes that we have refs that speak several languages then and only then should other languages be used.

The ref needs to be in constant contact with his touch judges via Ref Mic they need to know what is said at all times.

I agree that all the officials need to communicate effectively, but the same can be said for communication between ref and players.

I think the onus should be on Captains in particular to have multi lingual knowledge, it is in their interest after all.

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Post by red_stag Sat 15 Oct 2011, 3:09 pm

First pints on me in Llanelli Cymro
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Post by Portnoy Sat 15 Oct 2011, 3:11 pm

English is (ironically) the lingua franca of most international sports. Football must be far and away the most difficult to get it right. How do they do it?
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Post by Cymroglan Sat 15 Oct 2011, 3:16 pm

Take you up on that Stag Very Happy

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Post by red_stag Sat 15 Oct 2011, 3:17 pm

Do indeed. I have to say Im surprised people havent mentioned Rollands handling of the scrum. I thought he was poor here.
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Post by MBTGOG Sat 15 Oct 2011, 3:22 pm

I don't think I'll make it to Llanelli for the meet. Got something else that weekend.


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Post by red_stag Sat 15 Oct 2011, 3:23 pm

Your not?
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Post by Portnoy Sat 15 Oct 2011, 3:25 pm

red_stag wrote:Do indeed. I have to say Im surprised people havent mentioned Rollands handling of the scrum. I thought he was poor here.

The scrum has reffed pretty poorly throughout the RWC - SH feeds, Flankers detached. etc.

But on the plus side - the back foot law has generally been applied a lot better.
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Post by MBTGOG Sat 15 Oct 2011, 3:26 pm

No I'm not.


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Post by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Sat 15 Oct 2011, 3:34 pm

My views on the correctness or otherwise of the red card remain unchanged, so I'd ask folk not to comment in that vein. My question is to do with refereeing consistency - a number of commentators have suggested that the red today should not have happened cos it spoiled the game as a spectacle, or cos it was a semi-final, or cos Warburton has an excellent disciplinary record. All daft comments, imo. Much like trying to suggest that a game towards the back end of a season between two title contenders somehow deserves a better standard of officiating that a meaningless one in the depths of winter between two sides in the lower half of the table. But equally most referees seem to control the game entirely differently when close to the try line versus anywhere else on the pitch and also offer an alternative interpretation of the rules if the game is in the last 5 mins compared to the previous 75mins. How should this sort of inconsistency be handled?

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