Ireland post mortem

First topic message reminder :

Just back from the game.

Firstly - barnes messed up big time for the last penalty. Has to be lifting involved in a tip tackle which there wasn't.

Secondly- Wales probably had a few calls go against them so overall I feel things evened themselves out.

Thirdly- I though Wales were much the better team and were value for a 5-10 point win in my book.

None of which were what I wanted to talk through. I am posting in a reactionary mood so forgive me if I seem too emotional but to me I think the time has come for a change. We have been described as a team in a 'steady transition', not being too wayward with caps and building the next side gradually. Is there a point to building the next side gradually if the present side isn't doing the business though?

I thought today that the difference in Wales approach was stark in the 2nd half. Roberts had got no joy throughout so they switched the attack to north with devastating effect. I have seen no semblance of game plan, no hint of playing what's in front of you or anything to suggest Ireland have remotely half the nous that Wales have.

The players seem inhibited and for me only rob Kearney comes out of the game with any sense of credit (maybe Rory best too). To my mind we are relying on brute force and ignorance and when that doesn't work we have no plan B. I can't recall seeing tommy Bowe having a poorer game. I think it is telling that the two progressive subs weren't used ( as far as I could see). I think the question needs asked that what can Ton McGahan, Joe Schmidt and Brian McLaughlin get out of these guys at provincial level that we aren't seeing at international level.

for me a telling situation was ferris taking a poor up and under in the 2nd half. For ulster he would build up a head of steam and plough into/through the first defender. Today he passed. There is something seriously wrong in the international set up IMO.

For my welsh counterparts again this is more an Irish bitching session and I don't wish to detract from what was a deserved victory. Best of luck and here's to a GS cider against France. To my Irish friends I apologise if I am being overly harsh or emotional but that result has ruined my week and I am gutted and depressed.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Mickado wrote:Here’s why we lost.

1) With O’Driscoll out we don’t get quick ball at the ruck
2) We didn’t commit enough players to the breakdown to allow for the loss of O’Driscoll
3) When we did get ruck ball it was slow
4) With our midfield we couldn’t get any forward momentum without the quick ball
5) Because of this we kicked too often
6) We then stood off the tackles

I know Ireland and Leinster are a different kettle of fish but Leinster are missing O’Driscoll as well, so how are we able to compete at the breakdown, get quick ball off our own ruck, get turnover ball, attack and counter attack, create mismatches etc?

I just don’t understand it.

Agree Mick. Ireland have a big problem in their centers. Welcome to England for the last 9 years.

Wales seem to have amassed a collection of gentic freaks across their backline, the mismatch in size was noticebale. I can undertand the frustration about kicking the ball away, but whats the point in some of these Irish backs running headlong into their opposite number knowing full wele they will get shamed back? Its very hard to make spoace in Modern union without going through a couple of phases, if Irleand havent got the players to draw defenders and win contact they have a problem ( although SOB is a mosnter for this), equally with the Welsh backs able to get change against the Irish on a regular basis it makes their forwards job in securing quick ball a lot easier as well as breaking up the defensive line.


Ireland were always in this game though. The wasy some people are talking it was a major defeat. Aside form teh lineout Wales very pretty strong all round, they played at the upper end of their game yet still relied partly on a couple of contentious reffing decisions to get on the right side of a very tight game.

We were in the game but that was mainly down to how many kicks Priestland missed realistically.

I have to say the problem with the backrow is rooted in the centres, if the centres are going back in the tackle the backrow have to run around (aka further) to compete and try and slow down the ruck ball giving the opposition players an opportunity to get in first secure and supply quick ball.

It was not the fault of our backrow. They did excellently in that department literally swimming against the tide.

Same goes for attack. If our centres don't get over the advantage line quick ball is very hard to win.

I blame the tactics still mind as we were completely clueless and our defense was too passive and should have been more aggressive.

er dont the centres and the rest of the backs and the forwards have to have the capability to break down the Welsh defence.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:We were in the game but that was mainly down to how many kicks Priestland missed realistically.

Ah come on Pete Sexton missed just as many. Face it lads we weren't as bad as some of you are making out.

Defeats suck, home defeats even more so but this is not the time to throw the baby out with the bath water.

There were numerous refereeing descision that didn't go our way but ultimately the posesson and territory was the killer.

Look I'm glad some people can see positives. I truly am because maybe I get too critical and too blind in my criticisms - it's possible!

But, for my part, I'm not trying to throw a damper on those who saw that it was a good game and felt Ireland were doing somethings right.

But maybe it's just emphasis. Some think that Ireland played reasonably well and just lost to a great Welsh side. I see it more as Ireland played badly and almost won against a great Welsh side.

So I'm frustrated because yet again I see so much room for improvement and if it comes, and if it might get finally coached into us, I see us as being potentially a very powerful side indeed. So I get frustrated. Wales should have destroyed us playing the high tempo, aggressive game they played. But they didn't and that says more about our true worth than many realise. I want the future sooner than Kidney wants to deliver it.

Rodders you are equally guilty of turning a blind eye. The performance wasn't anywhere close to good enough. If we can't dominate possession and territory on our home ground what use are we.

After a semi decent WC I was more that prepared to give Deccie another chance at the 6n. He's blown it. End of.

[quote

Ah come on Pete Sexton missed just as many. Face it lads we weren't as bad as some of you are making out.

Defeats suck, home defeats even more so but this is not the time to throw the baby out with the bath water.

There were numerous refereeing descision that didn't go our way but ultimately the posesson and territory was the killer.[/quote]


I fear we are in a minority of 2 on this one roddersm, I dont think Kidney or his Irish team are perfect, but my god they arent as bad as this lot are making out.

Did he miss as many as Sexton actually? Sexton was 4 from 6 no?

If Wales are such a great side, why are we the only team of note they've beaten in the last year?
Because Kidney is tactically inept at this level and continuously plays into their hands.

Why do the provinces consistently beat the same Welsh players?
Because the provinces are not tactially incompetent and can impose their game plan on the opposition.

SecretFly wrote:
But maybe it's just emphasis. Some think that Ireland played reasonably well and just lost to a great Welsh side. I see it more as Ireland played badly and almost won against a great Welsh side.

Secretfly it was probably a bit of both. On one hand we could of and maybe should of have won but on the other hand it was a miracle we went in ahead at halftime.

Wales are bigger, stronger and faster in too many key areas. We need to look at the players we are developing and find a way to combat that. The O'Malleys and O'Hallarans will not fair better.

However that is for the long term, right now we need to pick the best players available and try and win the remaining games.

We ignored the centre problem for a decade and now we are paying the price.

logie28 wrote:I fear we are in a minority of 2 on this one roddersm, I dont think Kidney or his Irish team are perfect, but my god they arent as bad as this lot are making out.

Logie I am normally the most negative Irish poster so we can't have been that bad!

Feckless Rogue wrote:If Wales are such a great side, why are we the only team of note they've beaten in the last year?
Because Kidney is tactically inept at this level and continuously plays into their hands.

Why do the provinces consistently beat the same Welsh players?
Because the provinces are not tactially incompetent and can impose their game plan on the opposition.

Feckless, our Regions are pretty weak at the moment so I think using that as a barometer is futile. When you factor in that the Irish provinces really introduce quality not dross from the Southern Hemisphere such as Piennar and Nacewa etc you have provinces that bare little resemblance to the way Ireland play. Imposing your game plan on this welsh side is a world apart from imposing it on the current Blues, Ospreys etc.

As for Wales being such a great side, this team was 6-7 short of first choice players and Wales's performances of late have been consistent and of a high standard losing to S Africa and France as a consequnce of missing simple pots at goal. You lost to a very good side who should have been at least runners up in the RWC final, In a few weeks time you might have narroly lost to the 6 nations champions, I said "might" would that be such a disappointment

Sextons kicking was 4 from 7...

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Did he miss as many as Sexton actually? Sexton was 4 from 6 no?

Don't forget the penalty that Sexton failed to make touch with either. That was criminal.

This could sound mental and I have in the past thought it a bad call but perhaps playing Trimble at 13 would help defensively as he is probably our best athlete in strength AND speed terms.

He could also be used as the dummy runner on screens with our centres running behind him rather than the other way around.

Maybe even put him at 13 at defensive set pieces

We are a team in decline 1st to 2nd to 3rd ...4th this year ?

Main reason - a coach who has failed to adapt. I defended his selection at the start and I still say it wasn't that bad but the tactics were awful.

I never known myself to agree so much with George Hook as I did on Saturday.
It seems to me we are going round in circles about 7, 12 and 13 and the debate has run its course but their does seem to be some concensus that the tactics were wrong. I still worry about 9 and 10. Murray remains green and Sexton seems out of sorts in a Green shirt.
Ross is also in a worrying decline in performance level.

To those who think things are basically ok I put it to you that 2 performances apart - Australia and England in last year 6N the last 2 year have been mediocre.

I can easily see 4th this year - I can only see a defeat next week - France didn't have to get out of 2nd gear at the weekend and now they have a coach with a brain they will get better. England worry me - they look pretty awful at the weekend but they will get better as they find out who the best of the new boys are and get a better balance with Morgan and Manu - St Paddy's day is not going to be easy.

Also Scotland will not play as badly again.

If we lose any of the last 3 games we will be 4th. It would not surprise me

DOD wrote:Sextons kicking was 4 from 7...

A couple of points on that:

One was a poor miss.

The long range one should have been a kick for touch.

The conversion for Bowes try was from the touchline. It was a good try but it was the wrong option to break right when we had huge overlap on the left and would have scored closer to the sticks.

There was another occaision were Barnes played advantage and there was a deliberate knock on from Hook, that could have been a yellow card. Instead of giving it he went back for the previous penalty and a tougher kick.

Small margins but the difference between winning and losing.

What a diverse bunch we all are! Rodders and Logie have us beating France next week, Geoff has us finishing 4th. For the record I'm inclined to side with Geoff but very happy (if astounded) to be proved wrong.

geoff998rugby wrote:We are a team in decline 1st to 2nd to 3rd ...4th this year ?

Main reason - a coach who has failed to adapt. I defended his selection at the start and I still say it wasn't that bad but the tactics were awful.

I never known myself to agree so much with George Hook as I did on Saturday.
It seems to me we are going round in circles about 7, 12 and 13 and the debate has run its course but their does seem to be some concensus that the tactics were wrong. I still worry about 9 and 10. Murray remains green and Sexton seems out of sorts in a Green shirt.
Ross is also in a worrying decline in performance level.

To those who think things are basically ok I put it to you that 2 performances apart - Australia and England in last year 6N the last 2 year have been mediocre.

I can easily see 4th this year - I can only see a defeat next week - France didn't have to get out of 2nd gear at the weekend and now they have a coach with a brain they will get better. England worry me - they look pretty awful at the weekend but they will get better as they find out who the best of the new boys are and get a better balance with Morgan and Manu - St Paddy's day is not going to be easy.

Also Scotland will not play as badly again.

If we lose any of the last 3 games we will be 4th. It would not surprise me

I can see us scraping 3rd.
If we drop to 4th there will be war in the streets I'd say and Kidney will be leaving by the end of the summer, when was the last time we were out of the top 2?

I agree the selection is the best it can be (or close to it anyway) but the tactics are very poor

We were only 3rd last year Pete

For the record I can see us finishing 4th but I can also see us finishing 2nd.

I will save my meltdown for if we lose next week but we are only one game into the competition and am not ready to throw the towel in yet.

BELIEVE!

Good lord willy i never said we'd beat France!! I actually agree with much that Geoff has said about Ireland in general.

My gripe is people are calling Irelands performance yesterday as awful, I maintain it wasnt, Wales were just better, and if we had won the same people would be talking us up as grand slammers.

The truth is we are the same team before and after that last minute kick, not perfect, but decent and not the rabble descibed in this wailing wall of a forum.

The same people would be talking about a grand slam if we had won? Yeah, right.

Well said Logie .

Ruby, I don't want to sound like I'm showing disrespect to Wales ability. I'm just in "moaning bollix" mode now and am entirely focused on what we did wrong and didn't do right. Our drift defence let the big Welsh backs build up a head of steam. Our kicking handed them the ball and failed to take advantage of our clear superiority in the lineout. I think we were tactically inept against Wales.

Not saying Wales are bad. They've beaten us in three competitive games in a row. But some people are talking like they're unbeatable. Which isn't true because they've lost every other competitive fixture against tier one opposition that they played in the last year.

I can't possibly see how people think Ireland played well, and should feel okay about that game, whether it ended up being a win or loss. Saying that Wales are just really good at the moment when we are the only team they have actually beaten of note, is ridiculous. They have big runners, and they play a pretty simple game-plan. Gatland isn't a smart coach. Yet that just shows how rubbish our game-plan is if we can't defend against his tactics, nor can we produce any sort of attacking rugby ourselves. If we want to play that way why don't we just pick every 6'4" player there is and stick them in the backs. Better yet, we have lots of back rowers, lets just stick them all in the backs.

Rory you can't just stick backrower in there because they won't have the skill set needed.

Gatland is a very smart coach and has outwitted us twice.

Someone on the Ulster board has summed it up nicely.

Gatland has made Wales better than the sum of their parts - Kidney has done the opposite

Well in what way has D'Arcy or McFadden displayed the skill set needed? They create little in attack, and are like paper in defence. At least with a few back rowers running about in the backs we would defend the likes of North etc. We don't produce anything in attack anyway. I don't see anything smart about what Gatland has done. We were all saying that Wales will use their big runners to create momentum and target the centres, including yourself rodders. And what happened? Wales used their big runners to create momentum and target the centres. The fact Kidney didn't seem prepared for this, apart from using SOB as a tackler all day is pathetic.

PS: I am not seriously advocating Ireland put some of our back row into the backs. I am just emphasising how silly our tactics are.

Rory_Gallagher wrote: We were all saying that Wales will use their big runners to create momentum and target the centres, including yourself rodders. And what happened? Wales used their big runners to create momentum and target the centres. The fact Kidney didn't seem prepared for this, apart from using SOB as a tackler all day is pathetic.

I said because I knew Rory and Gatland knew it too.

Other than deny Wales posession I don't have another answer. We didn't have better centres available.

Ahh Rory, if only you'd been watching Ireland in the 90's....you'd think this bunch were gods!

Our centres are a serious problem, Darcy should have been replaced 2 years ago, BoD is injured, but there are no easy answers to this problem, and it doesnt make us a bad team overall

When Ireland played a fast off-loading game they scored two tries.
When Ireland tried to build phases they didn't go anywhere and ended up kicking away possession or guys like Healy and POC got isolated and got turned over.

Leinster generally play a fast off-loading type game with Jennings as their link man. Warburton, Pocock and McCaw are NOT traditional fetcher type opensides but rather fill-in players who go where they are needed to ensure continuity.

So here is the chicken and egg scenario. Does Kidney not play the fast off-loading type game because he doen't have a linking openside?
OR
Do Ireland not have a linking openside because they don't play a fast off-loading game?

If Kidney persists with his plan of trying to build phases against teams with superior power across the pitch Ireland will struggle to cross the gain line. OTOH if he actually uses the cleverness and handling skills of the players he has at his disposal in a fast off-loading game size mis-matches are nullified. His current gameplan isn't working nor is it likely to start working anytime soon but at least it should ensure the losses are close ones.

Kidney thought he could solve it by using SOB to defend the whole game, and kick for territory. That was obviously not going to work, especially option 2. At this point, yes I agree rodders we didn't have anything available. But this is 2 years now that D'Arcy has been poor, last year he missed a crucial tackle on Rougerie who easily pushed him aside. This problem should have been sorted long before now.

Logie, are you seriously rating Roberts, Davies and North that highly? In the 90s players were at least 2 stone lighter than they are now, so obviously there is a difference. And there is an easy answer for goodness sake, change the rubbish, outdated tactics that we are trying to play! But Kidney still insists that we should have "killed" Wales. Kill the game, that is Kidney's way. And it is rubbish, doesn't work. We don't have the players for that. That isn't the game we should be playing! Unless like I said we play ROG and stick SOB/Ferris etc in the backs.

The Great Aukster wrote:When Ireland played a fast off-loading game they scored two tries.
When Ireland tried to build phases they didn't go anywhere and ended up kicking away possession or guys like Healy and POC got isolated and got turned over.

Leinster generally play a fast off-loading type game with Jennings as their link man. Warburton, Pocock and McCaw are NOT traditional fetcher type opensides but rather fill-in players who go where they are needed to ensure continuity.

So here is the chicken and egg scenario. Does Kidney not play the fast off-loading type game because he doen't have a linking openside?
OR
Do Ireland not have a linking openside because they don't play a fast off-loading game?

If Kidney persists with his plan of trying to build phases against teams with superior power across the pitch Ireland will struggle to cross the gain line. OTOH if he actually uses the cleverness and handling skills of the players he has at his disposal in a fast off-loading game size mis-matches are nullified. His current gameplan isn't working nor is it likely to start working anytime soon but at least it should ensure the losses are close ones.

SOB has been fantastic as a linking openside for Leinster. So it is option 2.

Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
by miteyironpaw Today at 4:01 pm


It's kind of sad that what was one of the best 6N games in the history of the 6N has been marred by this controversy. Or perhaps not, perhaps all classics need controversy, maybe it's part of their greatness.

For me, this one was right up with the Bledisloe cup snatched by NZ at the last minute with a try to big Jonah. Some absolutely classic rugby from both sides, tremendous atmosphere, end to end excitement and , well, frankly, Rugby Was the Winner of The Day.

I think both sets of fans should set aside the controversy, be immensely proud of their team's contribution to the wider sport, reflect that on that form both sides are contenders for the title, and that at the end of the day, it was an awful inconsistent decision that handed Wales a win, that they probably deserved anyway on merit; breathing life into the old saying that Wales Can Beat Anyone on Their Day. Maybe this was it. I certainly hope so. Because on form of the weekend, it will need to severely not be Wales' day for them not to beat England. And we wouldn't want that, now would we?


miteyironpaw


Posts: 303
Join date: 2012-01-10



I concur

logie28 wrote:Ahh Rory, if only you'd been watching Ireland in the 90's....you'd think this bunch were gods!

I'll second that!

Logie, are you seriously rating Roberts, Davies and North that highly?

Well Jamie was the Man of the Series on the Lions tour, George North is? well George North and poor old Foxy Davies is just a 16 1/2 stone centre who runs trys in for fun - I think together they are above average and they will only get better. Arguably they are one of the best back divisions n world rugby - have a think about that 'cos I'm afraid at the moment it's probaby not far from the truth.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:This could sound mental and I have in the past thought it a bad call but perhaps playing Trimble at 13 would help defensively as he is probably our best athlete in strength AND speed terms.

He could also be used as the dummy runner on screens with our centres running behind him rather than the other way around.

Maybe even put him at 13 at defensive set pieces

I'd agree with moving Trimble, but just putting him back on his proper wing and dropping Bowe for the next game. Trimble was ruined for years by being moved about a backline trying to see his best position. This season with Ulster, he has shown his best position. At the very least Bowe and Trimble should switch wings.

Earls dropping out at late notice (hope everything is going well there) would have impacted preparations as it occurred late on. Not a total excuse, but should be a small footnote all the same.

Fitz is nowhere near being back into this setup. Saw his name mentioned earlier on this thread.

Murray was okay, but needs to start bossing the game from his position - there was a bit of following a set plan and not playing what you see in front of you with him (be played better than a lot of other players though).

The breakdown, I think looking back we were sloppy. We would clear okay fairly well but ball presentation was pants and wales were able to move around the first clearout. This slowed recycling up a little which puts more pressure on Murray et al.

DOC played quite well, but Ryan was better when he came on, in my mind a definite switch for the next game.

I think if you are to go with change the centre partnership now, it might be best to drop in the Ulster centre partnership as the short turnaround this week is too little time to get a changed pairing up to speed.

Healy needs a kick up the perverbial.

Is Ferris injured? Honestly, is he injured... cos this is a short turnaround and I would rest him for this game if it means getting him healthy for the rest of the campaign instead of putting him in against France and missing the remainder of the 6N. Maybe give SOB, Heaslip and POM a go from the start over there?

Its strange that Kearney manages to come through looking good considering previously the 606 line on him was that he is one dimensional and was only suited to the old rules.

Deep breathe, rant over. It is frustrating supporting Ireland but only cos we all know they have a feckin performance in them.

I rate the three of them highly, but people are talking as if they are unstoppable which is absolutely ridiculous. They do this against Ireland, and that isn't exactly difficult atm! There is a reason I picked Roberts and Davies as a centre partnership in my fantasy 6 nations team - first game against Ireland, and we all knew how they would play against our centres. I seriously don't get why people think they are so great when we all knew how bad our centres were going to be against them. Or why people are so surprised they ran through them.

Oh and I still think Wales are doing it wrong - Davies looks better as a 12 than a 13 to me, and I think Roberts would cause even more issues for the opposition if he was at 13 outside Davies. Just my opinion there.

I rate both Roberts and North very highly. North especially I thought was exceptional yesterday. Davies? Meh not sure yet. Never mind your Bowe's/Ashton's/Earls/Trimble/Evans/Visser's. North has to be nailed on a Lions berth.

roddersm wrote:Gatland is a very smart coach and has outwitted us twice.

He outsmarted us twice using only one plan...that's the scary thing. Did he outwit us or are his players just better than ours? Surely it can't be both. If they are better, then they don't need the tricks.

But if his players are simply better well they better start proving it in more theatres than International. Provincial is easier it's claimed, so we'll see them dominate us in the next few years with their world class players? Otherwise it comes down to how Munster are coached, how Leinster is coached, how Ulster is coached, how Connacht is coached and how Ireland is coached. And nobody drag up the foreign hordes. People thought Leinster's days as a contender were done when Contepomi decided to fly the coop. They weren't. Then they said without the god Elsom Leinster would fall away into the background. Then they said Leinster would rue the day they got rid of Hines. The foreign stock come and go, the Irish bit keeps Leinster consistent. You could certainly say the same for Munster who are without their foreign god Howlett this season and still get six from six in their HC pool with some very raw rookies.

So if you are forced to do away with the idea that the Welsh players are simply more gifted than their Irish counterparts you are left with the gapingly obvious - our coaching at International level is well below Welsh International level coaching.

Now some will say again that it's not even that simple as it's the particular players that are chosen from the ranks of the regions/provinces. Wales might not have regional European stars but they have the freedom then to pick the best players for the gameplan they envisage playing at International. In a sense, they might say Wales is their club and a better one than any Irish Province! And whilst we use Pro12 to prepare for HC, they use it to prepare for Wales International.

If that is ture, then it's even more evidence that we are in trouble in our International coaching set-up. Playing for Ireland must be seen again as something you have to prove you deserve(and Irish players do so every season in Pro12 and HC) but that if you do prove yourself, you don't get shafted and told - in a few years - maybe - if the present mainstay retires - and if you're still as good as you are now - and if we haven't already begun hiring from the generation beneath you.

Maybe reward for Pro12 and HC performances is not clear cut enough for young men with passion, hunger, ability and impatience. If the Ireland shirt becomes truly more competitive then both Province and Ireland might progress on a more even keel.

[quote="SecretFly"][quote="roddersm"]

But if his players are simply better well they better start proving it in more theatres than International. Provincial is easier it's claimed, so we'll see them dominate us in the next few years with their world class players? Otherwise it comes down to how Munster are coached, how Leinster is coached, how Ulster is coached, how Connacht is coached and how Ireland is coached. And nobody drag up the foreign hordes. People thought Leinster's days as a contender were done when Contepomi decided to fly the coop. They weren't. Then they said without the god Elsom Leinster would fall away into the background. Then they said Leinster would rue the day they got rid of Hines. The foreign stock come and go, the Irish bit keeps Leinster consistent. You could certainly say the same for Munster who are without their foreign god Howlett this season and still get six from six in their HC pool with some very raw rookies.

Secret,

I never believed the HC form would ever hold water but for me now its clearly down to the standard of our Regional coaching, especially at the Blues and Ospreys.

It can't now be coincidence that Gatland has twice got the best out of players such as R Jones, Evans, Roberts etc whilst the Blues and Ospreys struggle or stutter in the HC.

I don't believe the Welsh players aren't good enough for HEC level. I think they have coaching problems at the regions. And I don't believe the Irish players can't cut it at international level. I think they have coaching problem in the test team.

[quote="bedfordwelsh"][quote="SecretFly"]

roddersm wrote:

But if his players are simply better well they better start proving it in more theatres than International. Provincial is easier it's claimed, so we'll see them dominate us in the next few years with their world class players? Otherwise it comes down to how Munster are coached, how Leinster is coached, how Ulster is coached, how Connacht is coached and how Ireland is coached. And nobody drag up the foreign hordes. People thought Leinster's days as a contender were done when Contepomi decided to fly the coop. They weren't. Then they said without the god Elsom Leinster would fall away into the background. Then they said Leinster would rue the day they got rid of Hines. The foreign stock come and go, the Irish bit keeps Leinster consistent. You could certainly say the same for Munster who are without their foreign god Howlett this season and still get six from six in their HC pool with some very raw rookies.

Secret,

I never believed the HC form would ever hold water but for me now its clearly down to the standard of our Regional coaching, especially at the Blues and Ospreys.

It can't now be coincidence that Gatland has twice got the best out of players such as R Jones, Evans, Roberts etc whilst the Blues and Ospreys struggle or stutter in the HC.

But you prove my point for me bedford, Welsh players underperforming at regional level you put down to 'standard of regional coaching' I say, coaching is also the primary issue that divides such effective Provincial sides from the appallingly old school stuff coughed up by our International side.

These players (Irish) can play, they prove it week in week out. Welsh players can play, they prove it every time they wear the red of Wales. I'm more of an International follower than a provincial one and I say Wales have their priorites right. Good luck to them.

Don't blame me for the confusion above in my last post...I only copied everything Bedford wrote!

No, I know Rodders, you never said that - I did!!! But you were thinking it, damn you!!!

Roberts was marshalled fairly comfortably yesterday. Good job done. All Wales did for the last two trys was use a screen from roberts and a nice run from north (coupled with some pathetic tackling)

Now whilst this was a change of tack the simplicity of bringing your huge, much heralded, young beast of a wing In off his wing looked as though it had never occurred to our midfield defence.

It's not rocket science and yet it worked perfectly because we were (inexplicably) not ready for it. I think there are plenty of Aussies and kiwis that would snort in derision at comparing yesterday's fare with a bledisloe game.

I don't wish to disrespect Wales as you are much closer to that comparison than Ireland but neither are anywhere close to oz or nz as regards skill levels.

RTE2 - Against the Head. 7.30. David Wallace, Thornley & Frankie Shehan


http://www.rte.ie/player/#l=7

Wally is good on the tackles! One of the few panelists who got Warburton's one right from the go.

Have you goys not picked the team yet!? Deccies waiting for input lads. Sheesh.

does against the head show get saved on rte player? living in uk

newstalk is only playback i know of for rugby shows. any help? gibson ur abroad - do u get to view shows from the dam?