England v SA - KO 14:30 Sat 24th NOV at HQ - Match Thread/Build Up etc....

[HERSH]

First topic message reminder :

Feel free to discuss this game and any other aspect involving the England Rugby team good or bad as your opinions count and you won't be judged (by me) if you go against England, but do try to give a reason!

Please respect other posters opinions

Game 1: Eng v Fiji 54-12 World class performance.
Game 2: Eng v Aus 14-20 We was robbed, by ourselves.
Game 3: Eng v SA ??-??
Game 4: Eng v NZ ??-??

England team to face South Africa:

Alex Goode (Saracens, 4 caps);
Chris Ashton (Saracens, 27 caps),
Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 15 caps),
Brad Barritt (Saracens, 9 caps),
Mike Brown (Harlequins, 9 caps);
Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers, 52 caps),
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 26 caps);
Alex Corbisiero (London Irish, 16 caps),
Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 2 caps),
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 33 caps),
Joe Launchbury (London Wasps, 2 caps),
Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers, 10 caps),
Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 11 caps),
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, capt, 10 caps),
Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby, 7 caps).

Replacements: David Paice (London Irish, 4 caps), David Wilson (Bath Rugby, 21 caps), Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 2 caps), Mouritz Botha (Saracens, 9 caps), James Haskell (London Wasps, 43 caps), Danny Care (Harlequins, 35 caps), Owen Farrell (Saracens, 10 caps), Jonathan Joseph (London Irish, 3 caps).


South Africa team:
Z Kirchner (Blue Bulls);
JP Pietersen (Sharks),
J de Jongh (Western Province),
J de Villiers (Western Province, captain),
F Hougaard (Blue Bulls);
P Lambie (Sharks),
R Pienaar (Ulster);
G Steenkamp (Toulouse),
A Strauss (Cheetahs),
J du Plessis (Sharks),
E Etzebeth (Western Province),
J Kruger (Blue Bulls),
F Louw (Bath),
W Alberts (Sharks),
D Vermeulen (Western Province).

Replacements: S Brits (Saracens), H van der Merwe (Leinster), P Cilliers (Western Province), F van der Merwe (Blue Bulls), M Coetzee (Sharks), E Jantjies (Golden Lions), J Taute (Golden Lions), L Mvovo (Sharks).

[Hound_of_Harrow]

Do you guys have any fecking day jobs or what

You want to take a look at the Ireland team threads.

[yappysnap]

Just seen the rugby clubs highlights of Launchberry, he really is a Croft mkII, but thankfully bigger and please god a bit less breakable.

[DaveM]

Tuilagi has all the attributes of any great winger

Apart from pace, which is a prerequisite.

The world is full of pacy wingers - Sharples is pacy, for instance. Tuilagi is reasonably quick, and has the power to trouble any winger and full-back in world rugby.

[DaveM]

Decent pack, and difficult to argue with the backs selection even if the centres are obviously on borrowed time.

It looks like it is going to be really, really wet.

[HQ matt]

yes important point looks like its going to rain heavy on sat, we could see a fair bit of kicking.

[HERSH]

Brown on the wing!!!!!

FFS! He has to go down as the slowest winger in the history of International rugby.

What is SL thinking? pick anyone but him.

Few years out of date there. Brown is fast these days.

This HERSH's new favourite topic. Don't bother trying to reason with him

Brown couldn't outrun a flood in the Sahara Desert.

[Biltong]

Brown on the wing!!!!!

FFS! He has to go down as the slowest winger in the history of International rugby.

What is SL thinking? pick anyone but him.

Few years out of date there. Brown is fast these days.

This HERSH's new favourite topic. Don't bother trying to reason with him

Brown couldn't outrun a flood in the Sahara Desert.

Purely because you don't get floods in the sahara.

[HERSH]

Well done for keeping up Bil,

JP will have a field day against him.

[EnglishReign]

Brown on the wing!!!!!

FFS! He has to go down as the slowest winger in the history of International rugby.

What is SL thinking? pick anyone but him.

Few years out of date there. Brown is fast these days.

This HERSH's new favourite topic. Don't bother trying to reason with him

Brown couldn't outrun a flood in the Sahara Desert.

Taking it a bit far, he's at least faster than Flood.

[Biltong]

Well done for keeping up Bil,

JP will have a field day against him.

Let's hope JP plays then, he is in the matchday 22, but not yet 100%.

[Biltong]

Brown on the wing!!!!!

FFS! He has to go down as the slowest winger in the history of International rugby.

What is SL thinking? pick anyone but him.

Few years out of date there. Brown is fast these days.

This HERSH's new favourite topic. Don't bother trying to reason with him

Brown couldn't outrun a flood in the Sahara Desert.

Taking it a bit far, he's at least faster than Flood.

you get landslides faster than Floods

[bluestonevedder]

Brown on the wing!!!!!

FFS! He has to go down as the slowest winger in the history of International rugby.

What is SL thinking? pick anyone but him.

Few years out of date there. Brown is fast these days.

This HERSH's new favourite topic. Don't bother trying to reason with him

Brown couldn't outrun a flood in the Sahara Desert.

Hersh you can do better than that! We'll let you off because it's early.

[Jimpy]

Surely Brown on the wing is an astute tactical choice?

The SA game is based on a good kick/chase, so it makes absolute sense to me to have two FB waiting to recieve the ball. Brown isn't lightening quick for sure, but he has the ability to evade tackles and make yards through a bit of guile. Providing he's supported by Goode and the crash bang boys in midfield find some gaps, it could turn out to be an inspired selection.

[ChequeredJersey]

More importantly he is very strong for his size and as long as his positioning holds, a very good 1 on one tackler

[HERSH]

Come Saturday evening I think one or two of you may be eating humble pie over Browns selection.

I'm going to hate to say 'I told you so.'

[Jimpy]

Come Saturday evening I think one or two of you may be eating humble pie over Browns selection.

I'm going to hate to say 'I told you so.'

Its a good job you almost certainly wont have to then isn't it?

[HERSH]

We will see!

[gregortree]

Hersh is a Sharples fan really

[Geordie]

So who are you guys particularly going to be watching...

Launchbury v Etzebeth could be fireworks.
Im looking to see how Woods physicality goes against the Boks
Can Morgan actually get us over the gainline regularly and last 80mins

[gregortree]

We need 80 mins of intensity at the rucks from our back row plus from Launchbury. Morgan may well run out of gas at 60.

[Bathman_in_London]

I'm looking forward to seeing the backrows in action. Wood will have a real contest on his hands in Alberts, he will be used on the crash ball to get forward momentum and England have to (Somehow!) stop it.

Also Robshaw against Louw, Robshaw was outshone a bit by Hooper last week( although I believe that all the forwards should be able to turn over ball, I think Robshaw got a bit too much stick). Louw is a different player though, probably about 2 stone heavier than Hooper and very difficult to shift off the ball once he's in position.

As said above, we need the forwards to really work hard at the rucks, SA are good at slowing the ball down and frankly kicking to JP Pieterson will make it a long day for us!

I'm also looking to see how Barritt gets on vs DeVilliers. I think Barritt owes Lancaster a performance, he has been solid but distinctly unspectacular so far, a hint of a running threat might at least give Manu a bit of space to get some speed up.

[maestegmafia]

Jean de Villiers will become the Boks' fifth most-capped player on Saturday

[thomh]

Also Robshaw against Louw, Robshaw was outshone a bit by Hooper last week( although I believe that all the forwards should be able to turn over ball, I think Robshaw got a bit too much stick). Louw is a different player though, probably about 2 stone heavier than Hooper and very difficult to shift off the ball once he's in position.

I've made this point on other threads, but there isn't actually a Robshaw vs Louw battle anywhere other than the stats list. Dealing with the oppositions openside's attempts to steal/slow down ball isn't specifically the job of your own openside at all. The idea of a battle between the two 7s is a bit of a myth.

[thomh]

So who are you guys particularly going to be watching...

Launchbury v Etzebeth could be fireworks.
Im looking to see how Woods physicality goes against the Boks
Can Morgan actually get us over the gainline regularly and last 80mins

He probably won't have to. Robshaw and Wood are both important senior players, so unless there's an injury Haskell will be earmarked to replace Morgan after 60 and add some pace to the game.

[majesticimperialman]

This is going to be a tough test for England on Saturday no doubt about that. Looking forward to see how the likes of Lauchbury and Morgan get on.

I still dont like the idea of Mike Brown on the wing. But if it works it works.

Surprise Ben Youngs has been given the 9 shirt a head of Danny Care. But you get the feeling this was always going to be the case.

Looking forwad to the game any way.

[Hood83]

This match up is going to be very interesting.

The first question is who will Heyneke Meyer select as his props.

CJ v d Linde is absolutely useless, goodness alone knows why he is in the squad, he gave away 4 dropped scrums in succession before he managed to stay up in one.

Hopefully Meyer will now call for reinforcements from SA, JC v Rensburg looked good in the Currie Cup and is certainly a helluva lot better than CJ.

The next question is who will Meyer select at 10, I have a sneaky suspicion he is going to recall Morne Steyn, which immediately proves that the old kick and chase game will be the only gameplan from SA.

England looked industrious against Australia even though they didn't manage to get the tries they could have gotten due to errors, decision making and the defence of Australia.

I disagree with Taylorman about he cannot see SA win this one. We have had the measure of England for some time now, they play mostly the same style as us, but we have been doing it better than them for the last 4 to 5 years.

For Meyer this is an important match to win, so I doubt his players will be slack.

Territory is most important and then defence, possession has proven not to be the most important aspect thus far, yes offloads are important and so are players with vision, I think neither SA or England can be accused of having much of that in stock.

Got to agree with this. I've gone for SA by 5-10, but it could be more if SA are motivated enough and not too jaded. If it was their best against ours, I think it's not that close, we just don't have the power players anymore to front up.

But, given SA have plenty of injuries (i actually think JPP is the biggest loss) I think it may mean a closer game. If we picked what I consider our best team I think we could even pip them, but I'm not convinced by some of SL's choices thus far.

Biltong, i was thinking about the most physical pack SA could put out if all were fit and came up with the below. What dya reckon? Pretty terrifying eh?!

1. Beast
2. Bismarck
3. Coenie Oosthuizen (is he a better LH though?)
4. Bekker
5. Etzebeth
6. Burger
7. Louw
8. Alberts (i still say he's an 8 not a 6)

Every single player is an above average carrier. Yikes!

[Geordie]

So who are you guys particularly going to be watching...

Launchbury v Etzebeth could be fireworks.
Im looking to see how Woods physicality goes against the Boks
Can Morgan actually get us over the gainline regularly and last 80mins

He probably won't have to. Robshaw and Wood are both important senior players, so unless there's an injury Haskell will be earmarked to replace Morgan after 60 and add some pace to the game.

Yeah thats a point actually....well i hope we see glimpses of his "top class" carrying tomorrow...as i havent seen anything to warrant the rush to get him in the squad...

[Duty281]

Six changes! I certainly wouldn't have brought Youngs or Brown in, but Lancaster is more well-versed in these matters than I. We're gonna win England, then no pressure for the All Blacks!

[yappysnap]

RFU have posted England's 'big hits and tries against SA'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86cW1iqpDGk&feature=relmfu

Just look at how old those clips are! It would be so nice to get a few new highlights this weekend.

[Biltong]

This match up is going to be very interesting.

The first question is who will Heyneke Meyer select as his props.

CJ v d Linde is absolutely useless, goodness alone knows why he is in the squad, he gave away 4 dropped scrums in succession before he managed to stay up in one.

Hopefully Meyer will now call for reinforcements from SA, JC v Rensburg looked good in the Currie Cup and is certainly a helluva lot better than CJ.

The next question is who will Meyer select at 10, I have a sneaky suspicion he is going to recall Morne Steyn, which immediately proves that the old kick and chase game will be the only gameplan from SA.

England looked industrious against Australia even though they didn't manage to get the tries they could have gotten due to errors, decision making and the defence of Australia.

I disagree with Taylorman about he cannot see SA win this one. We have had the measure of England for some time now, they play mostly the same style as us, but we have been doing it better than them for the last 4 to 5 years.

For Meyer this is an important match to win, so I doubt his players will be slack.

Territory is most important and then defence, possession has proven not to be the most important aspect thus far, yes offloads are important and so are players with vision, I think neither SA or England can be accused of having much of that in stock.

Got to agree with this. I've gone for SA by 5-10, but it could be more if SA are motivated enough and not too jaded. If it was their best against ours, I think it's not that close, we just don't have the power players anymore to front up.

But, given SA have plenty of injuries (i actually think JPP is the biggest loss) I think it may mean a closer game. If we picked what I consider our best team I think we could even pip them, but I'm not convinced by some of SL's choices thus far.

Biltong, i was thinking about the most physical pack SA could put out if all were fit and came up with the below. What dya reckon? Pretty terrifying eh?!

1. Beast
2. Bismarck
3. Coenie Oosthuizen (is he a better LH though?)
4. Bekker
5. Etzebeth
6. Burger
7. Louw
8. Alberts (i still say he's an 8 not a 6)

Every single player is an above average carrier. Yikes!

Yes, that is probably our best pack, but in this case it isn't only about the run on pack, the replacements are good too.

Our challenege really lies in building a better backline next year.

[BristolDave]

But Biltong even with a better back line would they actually use it? Scary if they did!!

[yappysnap]

After watching the Bath/Quins game last night I wish Lancaster had selected Biggs instead of either Monye or Brown. He was a man possesed last night and is far better defensively then Sharples and creates tries through his terrier like work, something Eng could really use at the moment.

11. Biggs-Kicking, defence and physicality

14. Ashton- Tracking and poaching

15. Goode- Kicking, play making, counter attacking

Looks like a far more balanced backline

[doctor_grey]

Yappy,
I agree about Biggs. Clearly one of the best wingers in the Premiership this season. Every match I have seen him play (on tv only), he has played great. He has a bit of the undead voodoo possessed Neanderthal about him. But his motor is always running and seems to pop up where ever anything positive is happenning.

Wonder what keeps him out of the EPS?

[yappysnap]

Also just heard that 36 has made more turn overs then any other player in the prem, he is a big bloke in the tackle as well.

[yappysnap]

Yappy,
I agree about Biggs. Clearly one of the best wingers in the Premiership this season. Every match I have seen him play (on tv only), he has played great. He has a bit of the undead voodoo possessed Neanderthal about him. But his motor is always running and seems to pop up where ever anything positive is happenning.

Wonder what keeps him out of the EPS?

Hopefully it's just the fact that Lancaster couldn't make many changes. I'll be upset if he isn't in or around the squad for the 6N's, he should be in there for either Monye or Brown (I'd have Wade in there for the other as well).

He does have a bit of the caveman brow doesn't he?

[doctor_grey]

For obvious reasons, Biggs will nver feature n the cover of any of those Visit Britan tourist catalogues. But the lad is on fire.

I hope he make it into the EPS for the 6 Nations. He could be a real game-changer. I would like to see how Wade gets on, s well. I don't think he is so small and would do fine. He is about 50% of Wasps attack.

[yappysnap]

Agree with that.

Biggs, Wade and Goode lining up against Italy at Twickers would be great. To me Ashton can't keep wandering in to the team on little form and after Ashton Wade and Biggs are two of the best out there.

Having a pool of Ashton, Biggs, Foden, Goode, Sharples and Wade to choose from in the back three would be very exciting.

[anotherworldofpain]

Clive Woodward, sigh. Another hour long lecture on how great he was and how a decade ago England were favourites and IN CASE WE FORGOT how he once won a world cup, once, single handedly. Smirk. Grin. Smirk.

[mystiroakey]

AWop who cares jeas!!

watch the Ireland game untill this starts!! ffs

Come on England!!

[AlastairW]

chucking it down. It's going to be a slugfest! Game on!

[mystiroakey]

England all over the start --penalty within 30 secs!!

[Barney McGrew did it]

for gawds sake- run it

[Barney McGrew did it]

told you

[anotherworldofpain]

Stupid to take the kick there, sould have gone to the corner and kept the pressure on.

[mystiroakey]

crazy taking the kick!! 40% chance in hitting it at best!!

[mystiroakey]

Mike brown - wtf- its as if them saffas arnt there..

what a play

[anotherworldofpain]

Should have taken a scrum there and kept the pressure on.

[mystiroakey]

well these are garanteed points.. good start by england!

[anotherworldofpain]

What the hell was the scrum penalty for? The English prop crumpled.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Robshaw is an epic naughty naughty boy but whats this "use it...but not right now, maybe in a few minutes" rubbish about

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