US Open - Matches - continued

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As you were...

Stan will have to take the ball early v Novak, which will bring him closer to the baseline, because Novaks forehand bounces higher than normal, not toppy like Nadal, but enough to push you into playing with less attack. If he wants to get his flat fore/back hand operating, he's going to have to step into the shot a lot.

Which means many things can happen.

If your timing is off, the shot disintegrates.
If your aim is off, the shot disintegrates.
If your position is off, your timing and aim disintegrate.

So will he stand back and play ping pong or step in and attack in a way he is not comfortable with ?

Booo Azarenka. Sadly, the "real" match is second on tonight with Serena v Li Na in what will be an epic if they both bring their A-games. Here's hoping for an upset in the first match though.

Azarenka looks frighteningly out of shape.

All that time shes spending with that ugly unkempt guy from LMFAO

As an aside, Azarenka's grunting is apparently a perfect F key

kingraf wrote:As an aside, Azarenka's grunting is apparently a perfect F key

Is that true? Amazing!!

Yeah, her boyfrend was talking about it, because he sampled her grunting to compose a song

I am not buying that then.

socal  chill, relax and stop spreading FUD. As I said in the other thread, it's only sport.

Sure, no one cares about Djoko, except his gf and you, but I don't know why that hurts you.

And stop this war mongering cr@p, its you always with some war stuff, genocide, blla blla, don't understand whats your agenda really, the important thing is for Djoko to not win another GS ever, or to win another 15, its the same, no one will care.

Have a chill pill now and be a good boy.

Jahu wrote:socal  chill, relax and stop spreading FUD. As I said in the other thread, it's only sport.

Sure, no one cares about Djoko, except his gf and you, but I don't know why that hurts you.

And stop this war mongering cr@p, its you always with some war stuff, genocide, blla blla, don't understand whats your agenda really, the important thing is for Djoko to not win another GS ever, or to win another 15, its the same, no one will care.

Have a chill pill now and be a good boy.

Funny you are the one who brings this how evil serbian nationalism is aspect on this entire website not me, I was commenting on your past allegations. I am chill Jahu, especially since I usually just ignore your bad posts.

Azarenka makes the final guaranteeing her horrible squeal would be a big part of the experience. Other than a few like Li Na and Stosur, many of the top WTA players just rub me off the wrong way.

Looks like it'll be a long day for Li Na. For sure, the only person that can beat Serena Williams is Serena Williams. Only a Williams collapse would give her a prayer.

Looks like it'll be a short day more like!

UH OH... this doesnt look good,

Li Na looks really jittery here. A little more composure and she could have given Serena a lot to think about.

mthierry wrote:Azarenka makes the final guaranteeing her horrible squeal would be a big part of the experience. Other than a few like Li Na and Stosur, many of the top WTA players just rub me off the wrong way.

At least Azarenka has the bottle to try and actually beat Serena. She can screech as much as she likes for me, the womens game would be dead without her and this is from a Serena fan

banbrotam wrote:

mthierry wrote:Azarenka makes the final guaranteeing her horrible squeal would be a big part of the experience. Other than a few like Li Na and Stosur, many of the top WTA players just rub me off the wrong way.

At least Azarenka has the bottle to try and actually beat Serena. She can screech as much as she likes for me, the womens game would be dead without her and this is from a Serena fan

Yes, she does have some bottle. Shame I just can't take to any of the top 3 players in the women's game.

Sharapova's legs though......... 

Sugarpova you mean?

Oh sure, whatever....

Li clinging on desperately and delaying the inevitable.

And the hammer blow has been dealt. Different class is that woman. Women's tennis should have a boxing style weight class. Sometimes, it seems Serena belongs in a different division. If she had the single-minded drive to dominate all through he career like Federer did, she'd probably be well beyond 20 slams by now.

Too good, I still think a women with a decent serve, and i dunno... some variety would hurt Serena a lot more. Say some actual knifed slice backhands, that arent just floaty gimmes, a volley, proper volleys not the groundstroke ones or 2 wont hurt either. Serena counters the power game with her own, shes the best at it.
No coach or womens player has yet to see this apparently, and i dunno, try something different?

laverfan wrote:I understand  your view BB, but look at the technology.

BB did not say it was unrealistic; he just said it was obscene.

LuvSports! wrote:My fav shbh's are Stan's, Gasquet's, fed's, almagro's, kohl's, ungur's. Few others are good but are either more punchy, less elegant and ultimately not as good.

Stan, Haas and Fed for me.  Gasquet's and Almagro's are great, and occasionally they hit gorgeous ones, but all in all I do not like them quite as much.

kingraf wrote:The mens semi's are pretty interesting. I cant in good faith give Gasquet a hope against Nadal...

Pretty interesting then?

Djokovic vs Wawrinka will be so difficult for me to choose who to root for.  On one hand, Nole has a better chance against Rafa, on the other hand I so much prefer Stan to Nole.

So I will just try to watch and enjoy the match whatever happens, even though I am sure that if it gets close I will end up rooting for Stan.

Stan can trouble Nole if he repeats his QF performance, but I am not sure if he can repeat it.  And even if he does, Nole will be hard to crack.  All in all, I expect Nole to win, and if he wins the first set, then perhaps quite comfortably.

One of the things I wonder is how Rafa's serve would hold up against Nole.  Rafa has not yet been broken, and quite conceivably will not be broken in the SF either, but I would still think that if he faces Nole in the final, Nole will not find it very difficult (relatively speaking) to break him.  In 2012 RG, Rafa was broken only once on his way all the way to the final, but then 7 times in the final by an off-color Nole.

Of course, Nole himself is likely to be broken multiple times, so he may well still lose.  I am having hard time deciding who I would favor should they meet on Monday.  I think I am leaning towards Nole, but I also thought he would win at RG and in Canada, yet he lost them both.

summerblues wrote:Rafa has not yet been broken, and quite conceivably will not be broken in the SF either

After I wrote this I checked the history of Rafa vs Richard encounters.  In their last 5 matches (i.e., 12 sets), Rafa was broken once.  So yes, based on this stat, it seems rather likely that he will not be broken tomorrow.

In those same 5 matches, Richard was broken 23 times.

mthierry wrote:And the hammer blow has been dealt. Different class is that woman. Women's tennis should have a boxing style weight class. Sometimes, it seems Serena belongs in a different division. If she had the single-minded drive to dominate all through he career like Federer did, she'd probably be well beyond 20 slams by now.

Yes but I have never warmed to her for some reason. No question the biggest talent in the history of the woman's game though. I like her sister and her attitude a lot more, Venus seems to have a dignity about her and lacks a nasty streak where Serena has one for sure. I just don't like woman's tennis much, and find serena very off putting as well and always root against her. I just remember when she ran her mouth how she could beat a lot of the male players her quote was "anyone over 150 for sure". They finally found some guy ranked like 170 to play her and he was like clowning her and barely tried and won the match like -1 and -2. Just don't like her personality and what is she so peed about all the time?

Don't agree Serena is actually the most talented player ever...for a start I'd put Graf, Evert Navratilova, Seles and Hingis ahead in raw talent terms. Serena has raw power but it has to be said has also flourished more latterly in a weaker women's era...her H2H against other leading players earlier on wasn't as impressive....7-6 vs Hingis, 10-7 vs Capriati, 7-5 vs Dementieva, 8-6 vs Henin....whereas in this era she's 12-3 vs Azarenka, 14-2 vs Sharapova, 8-1 vs Li Na, 6-0 vs Radwanska. She's hugely talented for sure, one of the GOATs, but not THE most talented. She's inconsistent, injury prone (missed 11 slams) and is way short on #1 ranked weeks vs Navratilova, Graf, Evert and Hingis. However...had she been less injury prone then, perhaps like Rafa, she would lead slams won and had many more weeks at #1. Like Rafa, both still have the opportunity to enhance their careers moving forward and an argument can always be made that periods missed through injury extend their career at the end...although its not necessarily their slam winning peak that's extended.

Djokovic might well break Rafa a few times but he can't afford to let any BPs slip. Now Murray is out and there is an easier (in theory, or at least less gruelling ) SF, I have him and Rafa equal

Djoko will fold to Stan, he's too scared to face Rafa in final.

Go Stan, Go Gasquet, give us the best final since Delpo-Fed.

I like Serena the tennis player but dislike Serena the person in the same way I like Nadal the person but dislike Nadal the tennis player. Boris and Annabel were saying yesterday she could well have 4-5 more years left in her singles career if she stays fit and quite frankly, if she does stay on that long she'll probably still be untouchable.

For those interested and yet unaware in britain. Stan faces Djokovic at 5:00 pm, nadal Gasquet should be soon after

Jahu wrote:Djoko will fold to Stan, he's too scared to face Rafa in final.

I think that comment shows a lack of understanding of the mentality of top class sportsmen.

lydian wrote:Don't agree Serena is actually the most talented player ever...for a start I'd put Graf, Evert Navratilova, Seles and Hingis ahead in raw talent terms. Serena has raw power but it has to be said has also flourished more latterly in a weaker women's era...her H2H against other leading players earlier on wasn't as impressive....7-6 vs Hingis, 10-7 vs Capriati, 7-5 vs Dementieva, 8-6 vs Henin....whereas in this era she's 12-3 vs Azarenka, 14-2 vs Sharapova, 8-1 vs Li Na, 6-0 vs Radwanska. She's hugely talented for sure, one of the GOATs, but not THE most talented. She's inconsistent, injury prone (missed 11 slams) and is way short on #1 ranked weeks vs Navratilova, Graf, Evert and Hingis. However...had she been less injury prone then, perhaps like Rafa, she would lead slams won and had many more weeks at #1. Like Rafa, both still have the opportunity to enhance their careers moving forward and an argument can always be made that periods missed through injury extend their career at the end...although its not necessarily their slam winning peak that's extended.

Surely, athleticism is part of the combination of qualities that makes up talent. In my opinion, Serena's footwork (which suffers under pressure) and her occasionally inexplicably erratic temperament are her only real weaknesses. She's the cleanest ball striker the women's game has seen with her serve, return and backhand being the most lethal and her forehand is up there too. Her volleying is also underrated. I disagree with your era theory because if anything, she has endured through different top generations of players and stood out. Graf played the weaker era and Evert and Navratilova's rivalry made perception of their era far stronger than it actually was - and it really wasn't strong by any means.

Most of her matches with the likes of Capriati, Davenport, Hingis etc came in her teens. If she met those players in their prime years with the more controlled tennis she's playing now, she WOULD destroy them consistently. She's had a few bad results here and there but since last year's Wimby, she's played the best tennis of her career - better than her "Serena slam".

With Serena, it's not a question of records but her ability and indomitable will to win. There's not a shred of doubt in my mind that you could take Serena at her prime back to any era and she'd dominate anyone and everyone.

socal1976 wrote:

mthierry wrote:And the hammer blow has been dealt. Different class is that woman. Women's tennis should have a boxing style weight class. Sometimes, it seems Serena belongs in a different division. If she had the single-minded drive to dominate all through he career like Federer did, she'd probably be well beyond 20 slams by now.

Yes but I have never warmed to her for some reason. No question the biggest talent in the history of the woman's game though. I like her sister and her attitude a lot more, Venus seems to have a dignity about her and lacks a nasty streak where Serena has one for sure. I just don't like woman's tennis much, and find serena very off putting as well and always root against her. I just remember when she ran her mouth how she could beat a lot of the male players her quote was "anyone over 150 for sure". They finally found some guy ranked like 170 to play her and he was like clowning her and barely tried and won the match like -1 and -2. Just don't like her personality and what is she so peed about all the time?

I agree for the most part. She can be a bit of a mouthy diva and can be really brash and abrasive. Though I think the criticism of her can be over the top. She's good for women's tennis for sure and the ATP probably needs more personalities like her. So many boring, wooden top players.

She would probably give Simon a good game with his passive pushing.

Well said, mthierry....totally agree.

Serena seems to have opened a bagel shop in New York....Suarez Navarro 6-0,6-0, and now Li Na 6-0,6-3. She's only dropped 16 games on her way to the final!

What we have to remember is that back in those days women players just used the serve as a means of starting a rally. Evert and Hingis just tapped the ball over the net, and it wasn't until Seles came on the scene that we finally had a woman player who could punish weak serves. Then, the Williams sisters came along, and did the same, and hastened Hingis' retirement.

I would even go as far as to say that both Sharapova and Azarenka could compete in the Graf and Hingis era....

Time spent at number one is over-rated, because it can lead to burnout. Borg was happy to let Connors end the year as number one, as long as he continued to rack up the French and Wimbledon titles. To me, the biggest factor is the number of Grand Slam titles you rack up.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Graf finished with 22, and both Navratilova and Evert have 18 each. Serena is currently on 16, and is probably favourite to get number 17 this evening.

I'm more interested in looking at who are the most SUCCESSFUL tennis players of all time, rather than the subjective, personal-opinion-based assertion of who's the GREATEST of all time. The first is easy to measure, while the the latter always comes down to one person's opinion against the next....

I love Serena. Brilliant player, superb athlete... And the nasty streak that some don't like I think is great. She will go to any length to win and I think that is great. How it should be. She unfollowed Stephens on twitter after losing to her... Like saying "you're a rival now, therefore you're not a friend to me". Clinical. Competetive. Box office.

There's always great drama associated to Serena, it follows her around. Particularly in New York.

lydian wrote:Don't agree Serena is actually the most talented player ever...for a start I'd put Graf, Evert Navratilova, Seles and Hingis ahead in raw talent terms. Serena has raw power but it has to be said has also flourished more latterly in a weaker women's era...her H2H against other leading players earlier on wasn't as impressive....7-6 vs Hingis, 10-7 vs Capriati, 7-5 vs Dementieva, 8-6 vs Henin....whereas in this era she's 12-3 vs Azarenka, 14-2 vs Sharapova, 8-1 vs Li Na, 6-0 vs Radwanska. She's hugely talented for sure, one of the GOATs, but not THE most talented. She's inconsistent, injury prone (missed 11 slams) and is way short on #1 ranked weeks vs Navratilova, Graf, Evert and Hingis. However...had she been less injury prone then, perhaps like Rafa, she would lead slams won and had many more weeks at #1. Like Rafa, both still have the opportunity to enhance their careers moving forward and an argument can always be made that periods missed through injury extend their career at the end...although its not necessarily their slam winning peak that's extended.

The most talented female player ever is Evonne Goolagong  I am absolutely certain about this

^ I also think Seles is a close second.

If Nadal wins and Djoko loses, we have a new world #1... Cogen, care to confirm?

kingraf wrote:If Nadal wins and Djoko loses, we have a new world #1... Cogen, care to confirm?

I've just checked Cogen's table on the website. If Djokovic wins today, Nadal cannot overtake him regardless of winning the title. However, there will only be 120 points in it if Nadal beats Djokovic in the final. Of course, a Djokovic today coupled with the inevitable Nadal win in the final would result in a "new" number 1.

Order of preference for winning this major:

1) Stan
2) Djokovic
3) Nadal

Come on Stan!

Oh Novak, you can't smash

His smash is almost comical. Im pretty sure the Djoko smash is the one shot in elite tennis that isnt relatively bad, as much as just flat out bad

Murray's is much worse

They certainly aren't Nadal or Tsonga when it comes to the overhead.

Break!!!

Commentators here just said that Stan has been winning his matches doing nothing, just waiting for his opponents to make errors.  Whereas players like Andy and Nole have "that other level" where they win by attacking.

I suppose so then...

kingraf wrote:Break!!!

Rafa fan, eh?