US Open - Matches - continued

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As you were...

But he's back with her now and this has coincided with his improved results!!

Problem is Murray tried this tactic with Kim (2009/10) and then started losing in first rounds - they got back together and the rest is history

This is a worrying trend. Logically, this must mean that Hawkeye is vital to the success of these boards  

Novak has improved but he went walkabout mentally in that third set and played very passively. I'm still not convinced he is fully dialled in.

He said this in his conference last night:

"For some reason I allowed him to come back into the match, started to push the ball, being more passive, and allowing him to step into the court, come to the net"

"For some reason"?! Novak, they're your actions! It shouldn't be a mystery about why they happened!

The trouble is if anything gets him mentally up for it, it will be facing a resurgent Rafa who is gunning for his No1 spot on his best surface and Rafa's perceived worst. A bit like the reverse at RG (only Novak's best slam is the AO and worst surface IMO is grass)

Then that gives Stan an 'in'. I'm certain Novak can dominate enough with his play to get a couple of sets - but any lapses will be easily exploited by the Swiss

What struck me last night, was how effortless it appeared to be for Stan. Every so often he's just smack a shot down the line as if switching a TV channel. It was strangely Federer like!!

ChequeredJersey wrote:The trouble is if anything gets him mentally up for it, it will be facing a resurgent Rafa who is gunning for his No1 spot on his best surface and Rafa's perceived worst. A bit like the reverse at RG (only Novak's best slam is the AO and worst surface IMO is grass)

But wasn't he "mentally up" for Wimbledon? I think they are all "up for it" - but if you've not been playing at your best, i.e. like he and Murray haven't as the Scot stated, there are good guys out there to exploit this

Well it's the more ridiculous schoolboy (like smashing into the net at RG vs Rafa) and tactical (drop shotting Murray) that make me think this is partially mental

Stan's always had the tools and talent to be a slam contender. In the past he perhaps was hindered by fitness issues and question marks over self-belief/confidence. With a new coach in place and in the form of his life things are just falling into place for him. I certainly could see him beating Djokovic - in fact I will stick my neck out and say if he plays like he did last night he will win. I say this because Novak of late seems to lack the steel when matches get tight and if he hasn't resolved that then he is in big trouble.

Belief really is a huge thing. Stan has it by the bucket loads just now and looks great for it and Roger lacks it just now and looks a pale shadow of himself for it. Rafa as well has it now and it shows whereas when worrying about the knee it must have eroded the belief.

bogbrush wrote:

laverfan wrote:Djokovic was stung by losing a set (spoiling his US 2013), so he mauled the Colonel 6-0 in the fourth.

@iC... wait till IPv6 gets fully deployed, then websites will have hell of a time blocking by IPs. We should use MAC addresses (despite MAC address spoofing), but they are not always visible in layer 2/3 and get hidden behind NAT/PAT.

Someone suggested RFIDing every human when they are born (at least in the Western World).

I would start with all the banned posters on forums being given an RFID which their internet devices will embed in every packet transmitted to a server, so they can be identified, and banned/re-banned, if necessary.

I am very glad to see two new faces at a slam SF, despite all the detractors of Wawrinka and Gasquet. Wawrinka had a good 2008, and he seems to be reaching similar heights this year. A final on Clay, etc. Gasquet seems to have become fitter and has a recent title (very impressed with him v Raonic too).

You are joking aren't you? That's an obscene idea.

I understand your view BB, but look at the technology. A mobile internet-connected device for every person is almost the same state, correct? Facebook and all its derivatives are where the human collective will end up. You may give up your tether for a bit of R&R, but then we go back to our favourite tethers.

Interesting that at 28, Stan becomes yet another player to start playing his best Tennis at this age

There's hope for Andy and Novak  

Unfortunately, and Rafa!!

My expectation in a Rafa v Novak match right now is that it will be competitive but Novak messes up the big points.

There's been nothing wrong with his game for a while, it's the mental walkabouts that are wrecking his season. I'm not convinced that problem is sorted.

It's interesting that in almost every interview this week, he's spoken about playing every point with intensity, as if it is match point. So he and his team know what the problem has been. I'm just not sure he's tightened it up enough to take Rafa in his current form.

Or, for that matter, Wawrinka in his current form. Although I'd still make Novak the favourite in the SF.

ChequeredJersey wrote:Well it's the more ridiculous schoolboy (like smashing into the net at RG vs Rafa) and tactical (drop shotting Murray) that make me think this is partially mental

Yes. But that is surely caused by not been at your best and knowing it, so any mini-crisis festers and results in a straight sets defeat. Murray missed a routine volley, that you are I would have put away to get break-point up - could have changed the tempo of the whole match. Probably because he was lacking a little confidence. However, he still was 'up for it' and highly motivated - but that doesn't save you if you're playing below your best

Stan's BH is the best SHBH in the business and right up there with any BH period.
He's also become an adept volleyer and has a massive serve and FH - he's the real deal alright.
If he can slip out from under Roger's shadow he could be one heck of a late bloomer - on this form no-one will want to face him.

I don't think Djokovic will suffer mental lapses of concentration vs Rafa! Let's face it, The Colonel was never going to threaten Novak...after 2 easy sets he just lost concentration, no need to make mountains out of mole hills.

Murray looked a little flat to me, not sure he was carrying the weight of expectation well. Its one thing to be chasing the pack to win your first events (slams), but another to be leading it with expectation. This is where the true greats stand out...they carry that weight for years and keep coming back to win. This is where I've never felt Murray is in that same class. Last night I'm afraid he was found wanting mentally...and doesn't bode well for Wimb'14.

Not just the weight of expectation, but also he alluded to a bit of a comedown/loss of motivation after achieving the goal of winning Wimby.

Also, regardless of who you are, retaining a slam is very tough - Rafa's only done it at the French, Djoko only at the AO.
Even Connors and Agassi only did it once in their careers.

lydian wrote:Murray looked a little flat to me, not sure he was carrying the weight of expectation well. Its one thing to be chasing the pack to win your first events (slams), but another to be leading it with expectation. This is where the true greats stand out...they carry that weight for years and keep coming back to win. This is where I've never felt Murray is in that same class. Last night I'm afraid he was found wanting mentally...and doesn't bode well for Wimb'14.

I disagree. Yes he looked a bit flat but sorry if the expectation was all a bit much he would have crumbled much earlier when Leonardo Mayer won the second set or when Istomin took the opening set. In short he wouldn't even have got to the quarters. Besides after winning the US Open last year the weight of expectation was on him at Wimbledon massively and he carried it so perhaps that does make him a great.

End of the day Stan played magic and Andy played tragic - it happens. It happened to Rafa at Wimbledon at an earlier stage (First Round against a far lesser opponent Steve Darcis) so lets not have dire condemnations. Defeats like these happen and lets not forget Wawrinka is a bad match-up for Andy so when Stan is playing the form of his life and Andy less so then this sort of result is no massive surprise.

@Lydian... between Stan and Gasquet's SHBH, I prefer Gasquet's BH.

My fav shbh's are Stan's, Gasquet's, fed's, almagro's, kohl's, ungur's. Few others are good but are either more punchy, less elegant and ultimately not as good.

Personally id like to give props to robredos backhand, beautiful stroke, if not quite as dangerous

How can Andy claim: It's hard to get fired after Wimbledon glory? So he won W and I won't bother much for other GS?

He should shut up and give credit to Stan and try harder, what a clown.

Jahu wrote:How can Andy claim: It's hard to get fired after Wimbledon glory? So he won W and I won't bother much for other GS?

He should shut up and give credit to Stan and try harder, what a clown.

That's a complete misunderstanding/misrepresentation of what he said.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

lydian wrote:Murray looked a little flat to me, not sure he was carrying the weight of expectation well. Its one thing to be chasing the pack to win your first events (slams), but another to be leading it with expectation. This is where the true greats stand out...they carry that weight for years and keep coming back to win. This is where I've never felt Murray is in that same class. Last night I'm afraid he was found wanting mentally...and doesn't bode well for Wimb'14.

I disagree. Yes he looked a bit flat but sorry if the expectation was all a bit much he would have crumbled much earlier when Leonardo Mayer won the second set or when Istomin took the opening set. In short he wouldn't even have got to the quarters. Besides after winning the US Open last year the weight of expectation was on him at Wimbledon massively and he carried it so perhaps that does make him a great.

End of the day Stan played magic and Andy played tragic - it happens. It happened to Rafa at Wimbledon at an earlier stage (First Round against a far lesser opponent Steve Darcis) so lets not have dire condemnations. Defeats like these happen and lets not forget Wawrinka is a bad match-up for Andy so when Stan is playing the form of his life and Andy less so then this sort of result is no massive surprise.

Yeah, I agree with CC. Those who think Murray is limited in some ways, are wrong to think that this bow leads to some kind of prolonged dip. I don't even think Murray sees himself as potentially a true great and I've no confidence in him reaching No.1 or at least been there for long, simply because his game style is more vulnerable from a bad day at the Office than the others. It's in the same way that Roger has had some bad defeats to Rafa, but never the other way around.

For me Murray has a wonderful but flaky style of play, that doesn't lend itself to domination over a year

I think he'll be fine and I expect him to perhaps limit his schedule and just play Davis Cup plus the two Masters before O2 and he will still be one of the firm favourites for the finals

I also think Wimbledon is different, simply because he has now evolved into the best grass court player around, but improving on the surface each year, the fast but low bounce helps him greatly. I personally think there's no reason why he can't win three of these

I suppose I have to ask the question "Why have Switzerland not won the Davis Cup with Federer and Stan?" Is it as simple as when Federer was at his best, Stan was not and now Stan is at his best, Federer is not?

And it's only 2 players, whilst Spain have had Rafa and Ferrer and then the likes of Verdasco etc. 2 players carrying a team is always hard work

The Special Juan wrote:I suppose I have to ask the question "Why have Switzerland not won the Davis Cup with Federer and Stan?"  Is it as simple as when Federer was at his best, Stan was not and now Stan is at his best, Federer is not?

Partly. But mainly because it's very, very difficult to win the Davis Cup with just 2 players, especially when neither of them play doubles much. It can be done, but it's very rare.

Great minds

The Special Juan wrote:I suppose I have to ask the question "Why have Switzerland not won the Davis Cup with Federer and Stan?"  Is it as simple as when Federer was at his best, Stan was not and now Stan is at his best, Federer is not?

For me it's no coincidence that Fed's downturn had coincided with Stan's upturn.

I'm now backing Stan and then Novak!!

Which means neither will win  

Oh I see, thanks everyone

Poor Rafa nobody loves him

I like Rafa, over Djoko any day. At least he was the original power pusher that invented boring tennis, while Djoko is his copy, so I'll favor the original.

lydian wrote:Murray looked a little flat to me, not sure he was carrying the weight of expectation well. Its one thing to be chasing the pack to win your first events (slams), but another to be leading it with expectation. This is where the true greats stand out...they carry that weight for years and keep coming back to win. This is where I've never felt Murray is in that same class. Last night I'm afraid he was found wanting mentally...and doesn't bode well for Wimb'14.

He did look subdued last night and I think he was knocked out by being over-powered by Wawrinka. I don't think Murray every recovered from losing that first set.

I think Wimbledon will be a different kettle of fish though. He loved that centre stage feel and I hope he doesn't get stuck on 2 Slams!

I think I know a bit more about our tenisrobert btw, he may have made the mistake of using the same username on another site, ala the old 606 and roger federer.com, hes a frighteningly fanatical federer fan it seems, and might be british, which as a fellow brit makes me sad.

In any case anydecent matches on today? I get a bad feeling that the womens semis are gonna be a car crash of domination

Serena v Li Na might be a good one if the "good" Li Na turns up. They had a close match a couple of weeks ago and if Li Na can play her best tennis like she did for the first set and a bit of the AO final, she can definitely win.

I hope Li Na can take this title, she is better than her one her one Slam resume.

Jahu wrote:I like Rafa, over Djoko any day. At least he was the original power pusher that invented boring tennis, while Djoko is his copy, so I'll favor the original.

He's been playing more attacking tennis recently.

Theyre both much more attacking than theyve been typecast. Djoko in particular is king of defending until the right ball, and then attacking. Nadals also a great bosser of a point when he gets on the front foot

The mens semi's are pretty interesting. I cant in good faith give Gasquet a hope against Nadal, not to say he cant win, but I mean, how? He needed five to beat Ferrer, its like giving Radditz a hope of beating Goku, having been pushed to within an inch of his life by Krillin (anime reference). Prediction - Nadal in three, maybe four if the force is with Reeshhaard, and Nadal is a little off in a set.

Wawrinka vs Djokovic seems a real doozy imo. If Wawrinka goes in there believing he can win, the Djokovicay well have a fight on his hands. Stanislas probably has the best backhand on tour (although you can say that about anyone with a SHBH) and Djokovic is prone to brain fade. My Prediction - Djoko in four, toss-up (leaning to Djoko) in five.

Nadal Djoko is an interesting match (if we get there), I wouldnt want to call it. I think Nadal can get it, but he needs to serve (emphasis on serve - i.e the motion, not service games) better. A look at their matches this year, shows that in all but one of the sets Djokovic has won vs Nadal (dating to RG 2012), all but one (!) of them were one from a break down. For all the talk of Djokovic not being all there, really, its been Nadal who seems to fail to close out.

HM Murdoch wrote:My expectation in a Rafa v Novak match right now is that it will be competitive but Novak messes up the big points.

There's been nothing wrong with his game for a while, it's the mental walkabouts that are wrecking his season. I'm not convinced that problem is sorted.

It's interesting that in almost every interview this week, he's spoken about playing every point with intensity, as if it is match point. So he and his team know what the problem has been. I'm just not sure he's tightened it up enough to take Rafa in his current form.

Or, for that matter, Wawrinka in his current form. Although I'd still make Novak the favourite in the SF.

Pretty good analysis there murdoch I have to agree. To me it is a mystery as well he did everything at RG but play a couple of big points poorly. The problem is that in his recent losses, and now they are more than a few it has been a case of him tightening up or losing focus on the big points. It is not the serve, backhand, forehand, or return that is hurting him technically; it is this inability to lose matches from winning positions against his biggest rivals which had disappered as a trait of his for 2 and half years. Wawrinka can take out Novak on this form, but still would make Novak a favorite, although not a heavy one. And against Nadal I think if he plays Rafa he does the same thing as Toronto and RG, he will fight to a winning position, look like he is going to win and then find a way to make a couple of bonehead mistakes at crucial situations and lose the match. Part of that also is down to Nadal lets be honest he ups the pressure and the frustration with the way he plays.

falzy21 wrote:Theyre both much more attacking than theyve been typecast. Djoko in particular is king of defending until the right ball, and then attacking. Nadals also a great bosser of a point when he gets on the front foot

That is true, I made this point about Nadal quite a number of years ago that against most opponents, most of the time Nadal really does not defend very much and like most other top pros is the one that is dictating to the other guys with his serve and forehand. Djokovic fits in the same mold and Murray to lesser extent as well although he is much more likely to cede initiative when compared to the other two.

Wow, Murray looks absolutely drained, both physically and mentally, during this interview. Stan meanwhile is looking really relaxed on court at the moment. If he wants to beat Novak he'll have to improve that first serve percentage but then again he served ridiculously well despite it being only 55%.

Tbf Kingraf, Rafa seems to have noted that and thus he hasn't been broken in quite awhile, because he has been varying his serves and serving with pinpoint accuracy

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Jahu wrote:I like Rafa, over Djoko any day. At least he was the original power pusher that invented boring tennis, while Djoko is his copy, so I'll favor the original.

He's been playing more attacking tennis recently.

Anyone who says Rafa hasn't been playing aggressively hasn't been watching. Possible future opponents may have good reason to stay hidden safely behind a sofa but maybe others should perhaps look before passing judgement. At times some of his play has looked nothing short of cruel and his opponents have been brave to simply wipe their sweat with those US Open white towels and not wave them in surrender...

Djokovic v Wawrinka is first on with Nadal v Gasquet second. Great scheduling guys!!

hawkeye wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Jahu wrote:I like Rafa, over Djoko any day. At least he was the original power pusher that invented boring tennis, while Djoko is his copy, so I'll favor the original.

He's been playing more attacking tennis recently.

Anyone who says Rafa hasn't been playing aggressively hasn't been watching. Possible future opponents may have good reason to stay hidden safely behind a sofa but maybe others should perhaps look before passing judgement. At times some of his play has looked nothing short of cruel and his opponents have been brave to simply wipe their sweat with those US Open white towels and not wave them in surrender...

The problem is taking anything Jahu says seriously. If you watch Djokovic and Nadal and confuse them with pushers it really is a reflection of lack of knowledge or overwhelming bias or both. Instead of commenting on tennis I recommend dear Jahu go back to trying to indict Djokovic's father as an arms dealer to serbian militias during the war or whatever else he professes expertise in because tennis clearly is not his bag.

I thought he said Srdjan loaned the money out the militias, not arms

kingraf wrote:I thought he said Srdjan loaned the money out the militias, not arms

Yes while the Djokovic family was living in their grandfather's basement, from his massive pizza parlor revenues I am sure he was funneling money and arms to Serbian death squads.

To be fair, that happens more than you think Socal. My uncle got a state funeral in Zimbabwe for being a leader in the Zanu PF (when it was still militia), and you would never have guessed by his standard of living.

It was on CNN a few weeks ago

If he plays Novak I think Rafa is best off doing what he has been this tournament and keeping his serve less quick (still quick ish) a d very accurate and varied. Novak (and Murray) are great returners as Kingraf has alluded to and thrive on quick serves to power their return and put them in charge of rallies. A more accurate (70%in and in the corners) serve is harder for them to dictate and has less speed on it for them to send back at Rafa

Regardless, I think that the scheduling is fair enough. Gasquet has gone through the wire to get here, while Djoko and Stan should be pretty fresh.