The Scottish International Rugby Thread

by R!skysports Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:45 am

First topic message reminder :

As a die hard Scotland rugby supporter, over the years I have been dragged through the mill. Poor selections, poor coaches and poor players.

Through thick and thin I have bleed blue, but is it time to say, enough is enough.

The incompetence and down right corruption* at the sru means I have been supporting a system and structure that, is to be frank, not deserving of my support.

When is it time to say, enough is enough. You shall not take my support for granted, and I will not support that was of space that is the sru.

Can we evoke change and move away from the old blazers who are destroying our game

Should we stop watching our team who currently make a fool of themselves

I am getting close to saying yes. I am almost at the point I do not care about our team And will sod off to go shopping this weekend

Our continued passion means our support ratifies the sru. Is it time to go on strike to show our displeasure, even if that means we miss out of watching our passion.

Can we affect the outcome

Your a dispirited and depressed Scotsman

*no proof of real corruption, but certainly an ability to corrupt the supporter

BUT I SUPPORT SCOTLAND TO THE END - GO SCOTLAND

(edited text, as the super duper mix tape of threads needed a most positive intro :-)

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:11 am

I agree that Domingo was already a world class loosehead imo - remember the mess he made of Euan Murray a couple of years back at Murrayfield - it was rectum-clenching stuff from memory. I think Dicko has done well, but I wouldn't quite put him in that bracket yet

by funnyExiledScot Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:11 am

I agree ASBO, but I think Glasgow should use him more, and at training he should be given more responsibility in that regard. Now that Kellock has slipped down the order somewhat at Glasgow (surely Swinson, Naka, Gray and arguably Ryder are all now ahead), it would be great if young Jonny Gray and/r Bob Harley took over running the lineout.

Re: Kellock - player/coaching role next season, with a view to becoming a specialist forwards/line out coach? He's always talked a better game than he played anyway, and he understands the importance of team spirit, work ethic and most importantly he understanding Scottish rugby, and has played on both sides of the divide in Scotland. I'd like to see him spend a season or two at Ayr or one of the other West of Scotland sides, with a view to working his way into the Glasgow set-up. He's the sort of guy who could really take to coaching.

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:19 am

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:I agree that Domingo was already a world class loosehead imo - remember the mess he made of Euan Murray a couple of years back at Murrayfield - it was rectum-clenching stuff from memory. I think Dicko has done well, but I wouldn't quite put him in that bracket yet

Oh no! Neither would I! Domingo is to Dickinson what Carter is to Weir.

I think Domingo is the best loosie in the world, some people might think that's nonsense but he very rarely gets beaten in the scrum and gets through a ton of work in the loose.

Since the change of the laws Domingo has gotten even better. He takes some serious names for Clermont.

I'd start Dickinson against Italy.

I do wonder about Welsh though. Murray is spent and it's nice to see Lowe get some game time. But I don't think I would have been so quick to shift Welsh from Losehead to tighthead.

He made a right mess of the Italian Scrum 2 years ago in the loosehead position on his debut!

by funnyExiledScot Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:20 am

Does Robinson not already qualify to play for Scotland? I thought he did, in which case could we not use him even if he did go to Ulster?

If he's a three year project player I'm less bothered. By then Finn Russell will need only to pass the ball to Mark Bennett and we'll be guaranteed 7 points (he'll be the world's best goal kicker by then as well).

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:27 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:I agree ASBO, but I think Glasgow should use him more, and at training he should be given more responsibility in that regard. Now that Kellock has slipped down the order somewhat at Glasgow (surely Swinson, Naka, Gray and arguably Ryder are all now ahead), it would be great if young Jonny Gray and/r Bob Harley took over running the lineout.

Re: Kellock - player/coaching role next season, with a view to becoming a specialist forwards/line out coach? He's always talked a better game than he played anyway, and he understands the importance of team spirit, work ethic and most importantly he understanding Scottish rugby, and has played on both sides of the divide in Scotland. I'd like to see him spend a season or two at Ayr or one of the other West of Scotland sides, with a view to working his way into the Glasgow set-up. He's the sort of guy who could really take to coaching.

Hawks?

by **BigGee** Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:28 am

Apparently project players in Ireland have it written into their contracts that they can only play for Ireland.

Still as you say, no real point about worrying about what might happen in three years time. Three weeks is currently a long time in Scottish Rugby!

by funnyExiledScot Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:28 am

I completely agree with Radge. I'm a big fan of Ryan Wilson as a good prospect at number 8. He's perhaps a stone light for my money, but he has huge workrate and a more balanced game than Denton. Given the quality of Denton and Beattie, I think it's too soon for Wilson personally, but he's pushing them both hard, and with another summer of conditioning and more good experience for Glasgow, he's going to be a very good player.

He's not an international quality blindside though, and is a long way short of the competition in this 6 Nations, all of whom have strong powerful specialist blindsides. If you want to pick a young man for the future, then go with Bob Harley. If you want some experience and leadership, then either of Brown or Strokosch will do. Plenty good options.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:30 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:Does Robinson not already qualify to play for Scotland? I thought he did, in which case could we not use him even if he did go to Ulster?

If he's a three year project player I'm less bothered. By then Finn Russell will need only to pass the ball to Mark Bennett and we'll be guaranteed 7 points (he'll be the world's best goal kicker by then as well).

He does, but apparently if he signed for Ulster it would be as a 'project player' with a clause in his contract that commits him to playing for Ireland in the future (or similar - not sure I understand how it's legal, but apparently that's perfectly common for Irish project players). You'd have enjoyed Bennett hitting the bar with a penalty attempt from well inside his own half against Connacht, fES

by funnyExiledScot Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:30 am

Not as stupid as they look those Irish.....

by funnyExiledScot Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:31 am

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:Does Robinson not already qualify to play for Scotland? I thought he did, in which case could we not use him even if he did go to Ulster?

If he's a three year project player I'm less bothered. By then Finn Russell will need only to pass the ball to Mark Bennett and we'll be guaranteed 7 points (he'll be the world's best goal kicker by then as well).

He does, but apparently if he signed for Ulster it would be as a 'project player' with a clause in his contract that commits him to playing for Ireland in the future (or similar - not sure I understand how it's legal, but apparently that's perfectly common for Irish project players). You'd have enjoyed Bennett hitting the bar with a penalty attempt from well inside his own half against Connacht, fES

Does he get a new stuffed toy?

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:33 am

And an ice-cream at half-time

by funnyExiledScot Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:33 am

Decent suggestion. I was only making the point that I think all "pro" coaches should earn their spurs, rather than simply being handed the reigns at either Glasgow or Edinburgh. Sends the wrong message. Players like Toonie and Alan Tait were given high powered coaching roles too quickly, we need a more structured program, with promotions based on merit and achievement.

by tigertattie Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:06 am

Grant, MacArthur, Low
Gray, Swinson,
Brown (c), Beattie, Fusaro
Cusiter, Weir,
Seymour, Scott, Dunbar, Lamont
Hogg

Dickinson, Lawson, Welsh, Jnr Gray, Denton, Laidlaw, Heathcote, Bennett.

Team orders
only kick the ball away when in your own 22 or if you are in serious doo doo (eg about to be tackled by 4 italians on your own 10m line with no support around you)
Chips over the top should only be done when A: the opposition have blitzed up in defense and they've left space and B: you have men to run onto the chip
When kicking, aim for touch. If you lose 2 or more of your first 5 lineouts, all kicks are to be kept in field.
If you lose 2 or more of your first 5 lineouts, feel free to throw the ball to the front jumper. Sure it reduces your options in attack, but at least you still have the soddin ball!
Play how you play for your club. But remember you are playing for scotland so get some extra fire in your belly. Less fire is not an option!
Box kick is banned unless you are in serious doo doo. Scrum halfs can pass the ball to someone else to kick from inside the 22. These kicks go much furhter than crappy box kicks
Forwards are to smash into rucks in multiples. Going in one by one is pointless. Enough players should go into a ruck to make sure we keep our own ball. You don't need to go into a ruck when it is thier ball but if you think there is the chance of a turn over, feel free to smash on in there.
When it is our ruck though, and there is a chance we may be turned over, smash on in. and by smash, I mean go all scott murray on them!
Backs are not to throw miss passes
Tackles are not to be missed.
Offloads are to be encouraged.

Its really not very complicated stuff. back to basics, go in comitted and we can win!

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:14 am

I can't fathom why Lamont is still getting mentioned.

His heart is pure but his body is weak, slow and not anywhere near international standard.

Habana, North, Medard, Folou, Bowe and Lamont.

Come on guys we have better options than Lamont now. Perhaps not as experienced but guys that would back themselves in a foot race if faced with a broken field.

An international winger shouldn't be getting caught from behind by O'Driscoll

by tigertattie Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:21 am

Who else is available though? Realisitcally?

I'm also a fan of blending youth and experiance. And I mean expeirance who can lead by example. Lamont does this. He gets involved. He comes in looking for work. As was mentioned, his defence was top drawer while the youngsters around him were urine poor.

I'm not advocating Lamont as the future. For me, Visser is this, but Lamont gives us a stop gap for now and god knows that team need someone to show them how to play with heart and how to make the tackles!

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:21 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I can't fathom why Lamont is still getting mentioned.

His heart is pure but his body is weak, slow and not anywhere near international standard.

Habana, North, Medard, Folou, Bowe and Lamont.

Come on guys we have better options than Lamont now. Perhaps not as experienced but guys that would back themselves in a foot race if faced with a broken field.

An international winger shouldn't be getting caught from behind by O'Driscoll

Who on the left wing tho, Radge? Seymour, Evans and Fife are right wingers, Tom Brown hasn't played much - anyone else?

by **BigGee** Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:29 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I can't fathom why Lamont is still getting mentioned.

His heart is pure but his body is weak, slow and not anywhere near international standard.

Habana, North, Medard, Folou, Bowe and Lamont.

Come on guys we have better options than Lamont now. Perhaps not as experienced but guys that would back themselves in a foot race if faced with a broken field.

An international winger shouldn't be getting caught from behind by O'Driscoll

We do, but they are not necessarily fit, mainly Visser and Maitland. If not Lamont then we are next looking at Brown and Fyfe, both largely untried at this level. Evans was not picked over Seymour when Maitland was injured, so he is not going to be the on-going option either. Again it all comes down to how many new players we want to go into games with. Our back line is already looking very very green. If you are going to blood new players though, then the Italy game is probably not a bad one to do it in. Fyfe in particular seems to know his way to the try line.

Further down the line, Hoyland and Farndale in the u20's both look promising

by **George Carlin** Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:34 am

FES - I hate to break this to you but Bennett's break for the try (fed by Henners) won the game for Glasgow.

by **Notch** Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:38 am

The problem is- this is exactly what anyone would have predicted the outcome of giving the job to Scott Johnson would be. Exactly what part of his CV before this convinced the SRU to give him a job? :head scratch:

It's as predictable as the outcome of the experiment of getting Michael Bradley to coach Edinburgh. Same set of morons or a different clique?

by tigertattie Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:51 am

right, I'm lost (easy I know)

But who is Robbie Robinson?

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:28 am

George Carlin wrote:FES - I hate to break this to you but Bennett's break for the try (fed by Henners) won the game for Glasgow.

Ssshhhh, GC, you can take a horse to Leith Water but ye cannae make him sup

by funnyExiledScot Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:37 am

Listen, I'm delighted that Mark Bennett has scored a try. Finally, with the scoring of 5 points against Connacht, on home turf, he's delivered on the hype. I'm converted. Job done.

When's the next Lions series?

by funnyExiledScot Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:42 am

I think Sean Lamont probably deserves the jersey, but if we're genuinely picking for the future then I'd ask Seymour or Evans to switch to the left wing and introduce Dougie Fife to international rugby.

I've said it for a while now but we could really use Farndale getting into the Edinburgh XV, he certainly would have been a better winger than Cuthbert.

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:42 am

jimbopip wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:Lock

There are four locks who merit consideration: Richie Gray, Jonny Gray, Tim Swinson and Grant Gilchrist. I frankly don't care which three of these guys make the squad, and which two start, but these are the four locks to carry the Scotland pack forward. I'd suggest that at least three of them practice calling the lineout, because if I hear of Jim Hamilton or Al Kellock being selected again "because of their lineout expertise" or their "experience", I will not hold myself responsible for what happens to the coach who makes that decision.

Do you know some dangerous people?

I was going to hire 21stC Schizoid and Jimbo.
Can't speak for my elderly friend but once you factor in the bus fare from Essex, the Buckie, a sausage supper and bullets I don't come cheap.
However, in Rab C's case I will work pro bono.

Hey ya young scamp ye ! I'll elderly friend ye !

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:58 am

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I can't fathom why Lamont is still getting mentioned.

His heart is pure but his body is weak, slow and not anywhere near international standard.

Habana, North, Medard, Folou, Bowe and Lamont.

Come on guys we have better options than Lamont now. Perhaps not as experienced but guys that would back themselves in a foot race if faced with a broken field.

An international winger shouldn't be getting caught from behind by O'Driscoll
Who on the left wing tho, Radge? Seymour, Evans and Fife are right wingers, Tom Brown hasn't played much - anyone else?

Tight head, loose head I get. Left and right wing, someone explain the difference. Is it not just catch the ball and go for the try line or come into the back line and again go for the try line?

Is left and right wing not completely interchangeable?

I never proffered to be a connoisseur of fairy *aherm* back play..... Wink

by **BigGee** Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:07 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I can't fathom why Lamont is still getting mentioned.

His heart is pure but his body is weak, slow and not anywhere near international standard.

Habana, North, Medard, Folou, Bowe and Lamont.

Come on guys we have better options than Lamont now. Perhaps not as experienced but guys that would back themselves in a foot race if faced with a broken field.

An international winger shouldn't be getting caught from behind by O'Driscoll
Who on the left wing tho, Radge? Seymour, Evans and Fife are right wingers, Tom Brown hasn't played much - anyone else?

Tight head, loose head I get. Left and right wing, someone explain the difference. Is it not just catch the ball and go for the try line or come into the back line and again go for the try line?

Is left and right wing not completely interchangeable?

I never proffered to be a connoisseur of fairy *aherm* back play.....

Its not that dissimilar to propping in that some have a strong preference and some can play both. Some players can step off both feet, others can only go from one side. The same applies with kicking and catching. The better ball players are generally able to switch without so much trouble.

by doctor_grey Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:11 am

Was just sent this video of Scott Johnson riding a motor scooter in China. He is wearing a white shirt and starts in the traffic coming at you in the left lane. Kind of a metaphor for what he has done to Scotland Rugby.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wqg-zugZdI0

by **George Carlin** Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:15 am

Crikey, I had to open a window just then to let some of that sarcasm out.

by flyhalffactory Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:22 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:Listen, I'm delighted that Mark Bennett has scored a try. Finally, with the scoring of 5 points against Connacht, on home turf, he's delivered on the hype. I'm converted. Job done.

When's the next Lions series?

by flyhalffactory Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:31 am

George Carlin wrote:Good stats Fly - I noticed also that Fozzy topped the tackle count for both Scots and English players with 15 made and none missed, 2 turnovers.

He was immense GC

I am a massive fan of a match fit and on form Rennie, and Barclay in 2010 was close to him but Fusaro to be fair did a pretty good old shift last weekend and what was even more impressive is that he did that with an ineffective Wilson at 6 (who had been bloody good at 8 all season).

by GLove39 Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:38 am

Ohhh, look what John Barclay just tweeted

@johnbarc86: It's a shame foresight isn't quite as good as hindsight wrote:

A well aimed & well deserved dig at Scott Johnson. Also wonder if that means he's been recalled?

by ChequeredJersey Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:41 am

GLove39 wrote:Ohhh, look what John Barclay just tweeted
A well aimed & well deserved dig at Scott Johnson. Also wonder if that means he's been recalled?

Bet you now get Barclay at 6, Fusaro at 7 and Rennie at 8...

by funnyExiledScot Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:23 am

I think we'd all be in favour of a recall to the squad for Barclay whilst Rennie gets himself together, but I seriously hope SJ isn't going to drop Fusaro. He deserves to play these last three games - good form for Glasgow and a pretty decent showing against England all things considered.

I think with either Brown or Strokosch at 6, and Gray at 5, Fusaro would have had more support around the park and at the breakdown. As it was he had a pretty busy game, and he'll need to play well against Italy, because Mauro Bergamasco has had two pretty handy games on the bounce so far.

by **BigGee** Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:30 am

GLove39 wrote:Ohhh, look what John Barclay just tweeted
A well aimed & well deserved dig at Scott Johnson. Also wonder if that means he's been recalled?

I really hope that he is not tweeting about the selection process. Whatever the rights and wrongs of it he should not be making comments and obvious digs about it in public, that really would suggest a divided dressing room and a serious lack of judgement on his part. His best bet for getting back into the Scotland team would be to keep his head down and play well. There is a new coach coming in who you would hope would have a relatively open mind about all available players.

Fusaro deserved his cap and had a decent game For the better part of last season until he got injured was the better of the two players for Glasgow. Barclay, being the established international is one of those Scottish caps who at times has sat back a bit with the knowledge that no one was challenging him for his place. Considering how he burst onto the seen, he has never really pushed on and become the world class player that he could have been.

I follow him on twitter as well and I have to say he does come out with some contentious things sometimes.

by funnyExiledScot Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:30 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Left and right wing, someone explain the difference?

In Scotland you basically have Labour on the left, and the Tartan Tories (aka ASBO's party) on the right.

Run

by funnyExiledScot Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:34 am

Whilst I agree in principle that players should not air dirty laundry in public, I have some sympathy in this instance. SJ is a complete buffoon.

Still, you're right that at various points in his career Barclay has not played to his potential, and Fusaro has just as much claim to that jersey as he does. But to be left out of the squad for Ross Rennie, who is not fit to play, is frankly plain wrong.

The right course of action for Barclay is the one you suggest. He should continue to knuckle down for the Scarlets and leave Cotter with no choice but to pick him. The dark days of Scott Johnson do not have long to run, and he may well benefit from not being associated with the shambolic performances SJ has overseen.

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:12 am

Cammy Mather giving the so called pre match entertainment pelters in The Herald today. Still its better than the feckin rugby at present o we had better keep it meantime. drumroll

by **RDW** Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:15 am

Of course Barclays tweet could have absolutely nothing to do with rugby...

by **BigGee** Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:21 am

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Cammy Mather giving the so called pre match entertainment pelters in The Herald today. Still its better than the feckin rugby at present o we had better keep it meantime.

That is causing a bit of a stir as well, with Big Al K and Mike Blair laying into him about it!

Don't you just love twitter!

by doctor_grey Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:22 am

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:
jimbopip wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:Lock

There are four locks who merit consideration: Richie Gray, Jonny Gray, Tim Swinson and Grant Gilchrist. I frankly don't care which three of these guys make the squad, and which two start, but these are the four locks to carry the Scotland pack forward. I'd suggest that at least three of them practice calling the lineout, because if I hear of Jim Hamilton or Al Kellock being selected again "because of their lineout expertise" or their "experience", I will not hold myself responsible for what happens to the coach who makes that decision.

Do you know some dangerous people?

I was going to hire 21stC Schizoid and Jimbo.
Can't speak for my elderly friend but once you factor in the bus fare from Essex, the Buckie, a sausage supper and bullets I don't come cheap.
However, in Rab C's case I will work pro bono.

Hey ya young scamp ye ! I'll elderly friend ye !

I am vaguely uncomfortable with this comment.............

by GLove39 Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:48 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Of course Barclays tweet could have absolutely nothing to do with rugby...

Don't spoil our fun. How else are we going to get through the next 2 weeks without speculation & potential over analysis...

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:32 pm

That's me, all the Michaels - Forsyth and Hirst for those of shorter memory!! Laugh

by Guest Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:09 pm

Despite being the person who openly announced his expectation we would get trounced this six nations and even started a thread on it, right now I think we will beat Italy in 2 weeks. That opinion might change, but right now I see us winning by 2-5 points.

I think the team selection will be a little better this time around and it will pay off. SJ will be redeemed a little, but only because we know it's just one match closer to him moving upstairs where he might fare better.

I don't really know why.

Losses against France & Wales to come, though.

by tigertattie Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:49 pm

If Rab C Johnson can pick the right team then we can beat Wales!

by tigertattie Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:53 pm

Where is GC? Someone make him write a Italy vs Scotland thread! We can start discussing how we are "dark horses" for the game

by **RDW** Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:00 pm

Just like to point out he's not the official thread writer...others can too!

by beshocked Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:11 pm

Surely Hogg showed on the Lions tour that he's not good enough at 10 to be considered.

The benchmark in the NH at fly half are Sexton and Farrell. Hogg showed he has a long way to go to be anywhere near them.

Hogg is a very good 15 though. It makes sense to leave him there. He's one of Scotland's best players shoehorning him into the 10 shirt would mean you would have to fill the 15 shirt plus there is no guarantee Hogg will be as good as he is at 15.

by Scrumpy Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:16 pm

(Mc)Heathcote is the best bet for 10, just needs more game time which I'm sure he'll get next season, plus he'll have the motivation to be better than Englands future 10 George Ford.

by R!skysports Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:25 pm

One of the issues I have with Hogg at 15 (yes there are some)

I actually do worry a little about his tackling. As the last line of defense, i think it is a little weak. If this compensated by his attacking flair - most of the time yes, but still a weakness in my eyes (Clenching buttocks in anticipation for massive backlash here)

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:29 pm

Riskysports wrote:One of the issues I have with Hogg at 15 (yes there are some)

I actually do worry a little about his tackling. As the last line of defense, i think it is a little weak. If this compensated by his attacking flair - most of the time yes, but still a weakness in my eyes (Clenching buttocks in anticipation for massive backlash here)

He's 21. Paterson was a weak tackler too untill his mid 20s and by the end of his career he was the master of th fullback covering tackle.

Hogg spends a lot of time with Mossy, they do kicking practice together and I'm sure Hogg will be able to emulate Mossy's fantastic full back tackling given a bit of time.

He might have missed the tackle against Heaslip but did enough to let max evans bundle him into touch.

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