Ireland moving forward

First topic message reminder :

Feel for the Irish boys after yesterday but a few things stood out for me:

We didn't score in 2nd half so I find it hard to say we deserved to win. We still struggle to close out games similar to the French game at Croke Park. I feel these issues have a lot to do with self belief which I think we as nation have struggled with for a long time in sport if I'm being honest. I feel this is JS big challenge with this team and if he can get them believing and producing performances like yesterday on a consistent basis then we'll do some damage in 6 nations and world cups.

Ireland are a different team when they keep ball in hand and don't kick the ball away constantly. This was a really pleasing part of yesterday with all the players backing themselves and each other to keep the ball in hand to put the ABs under pressure. This is without doubt the way forward as shown by the ABs themselves. Encouraging signs from the new coaching set up.

The effort and commitment yesterday was immense. It was the sort of display that made you proud to be Irish. SOB, Healy, POC and Heaslip in particular produced some of the best individual performances I've seen in a long time.

Congrats to NZ. Still the benchmark for how rugby should be played.

Also great to see the new Lansdowne Road rocking.

clivemcl wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

profitius wrote:2 more non Irish = joke. Payne and Nathan White to come next season along with Strauss. Its becoming a joke now.

Kinda agree but neither Ah You or Herring will get capped Id say. Interestingly France who seem to love naturalising decent rugby players dont have any foreigners in their 6N squad.

I like the way they threw money and capped Noa Nakaitaci just so he would be tied down to France even though he will probably never play for them again. Now he can't represent his own country when he would have probably went on to get 30- 40 caps with Fiji. That annoys me the most about the poaching of Islanders. The same happened with Saimone Taumoepeau.

Would it be fair to argue a residency reversal or something? Like three years of non-selection allows your dual eligibility to kick back in? You could argue its better for the game globally for these players to play for their home nations again - potentially lifting the all round standard of play.

(I doubt it would ever happen though)

That is a good idea actually. The rule could just apply to the PIs so that they can at one stage have all their best players again.

Zebo is not in the extended squad because he is one of a number of players who are "currently injured or returning from injury ". Yet he trained last week and played, coming off the bench against Gloucester. Munster report that he has suffered no ill effects from that outing.

McFadden who hasn't been on a rugby pitch since the international match against Australia and is still very much in rehab is included.

Curious.

??????????????

I think McFadden just injured his hand. So he would be able to train etc at a higher level

My Wolfies team

Kilcoyne-Varley-Moore
Toner-Henderson
Ruddock-Copeland-Murphy
Marmion-Madigan
Downey(?)-Henshaw
Zebo-K2-Gilroy

???

Pete

Downey is not in the 44 or one of the 7 players mentioned who will be considered later.

Therefore he has no chance; infact along with the likes of Court and Paul Marshall he is probably out of the frame for good.
If you are not one of 55 players mentioned and you are not considered on the way up I suggest you have no International career ahead of you.

KiaRose wrote:Zebo is not in the extended squad because he is one of a number of players who are "currently injured or returning from injury ".  Yet he trained last week and played, coming off the bench against Gloucester.  Munster report that he has suffered no ill effects from that outing.

McFadden who hasn't been on a rugby pitch since the international match against Australia and is still very much in rehab is included.

Curious.

??????????????

Its all one big anti-Munster conspiracy.

GunsGerms wrote:

KiaRose wrote:Zebo is not in the extended squad because he is one of a number of players who are "currently injured or returning from injury ".  Yet he trained last week and played, coming off the bench against Gloucester.  Munster report that he has suffered no ill effects from that outing.

McFadden who hasn't been on a rugby pitch since the international match against Australia and is still very much in rehab is included.

Curious.

??????????????

Its all one big anti-Munster conspiracy.

Don't forget Gilroy, who's played 2 games on the trot and is likely to play at the weekend too. I guess McFadden must have impressed doing one handed training....

Seriously though, I think McFadden has been elevated into the undroppable category under Schmidt, he'll be one of the first names on the team sheet along with Heaslip, Sexton, Kearney, Toner and Healy as long as Joe is there.

It makes sense to pick him. Why did we lose v NZ?

because Sexton missed a urine easy kick. we need a second kicker on the pitch. Furthermore, McFadden has a ridiculously good try scoring record for Ireland including tries v France, NZ and Samoa so why not pick him?

Granted he has a ridiculous running style and George North steamrolled him a couple of years ago but he fits in nicely into the Schmidt style of play. Anyway Id be happy enough if Schmidt picked the whole Leinster team if it meant we won every match.

That said if Sexton wasnt such a rubbish kicker Id pick Gilroy.

Totally disagree that McFadden is automatic pick.

He has taken his chance with a lot out .

When Bowe, Zebo, Earls and Gilroy are all fully match fit he will not make the team

whocares wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

profitius wrote:2 more non Irish = joke. Payne and Nathan White to come next season along with Strauss. Its becoming a joke now.

Kinda agree but neither Ah You or Herring will get capped Id say. Interestingly France who seem to love naturalising decent rugby players dont have any foreigners in their 6N squad.

Am pretty sure they have bernard le roux who despite his name is from SA. It's only a 30 men squad as well.

Out of interest what is the point of a 44 men squad? Do they expect to need 2 full teams for training/purposes? I guess some of those guys have zero chance to make the cut.

Thanks for that. You are right. Didnt realise he was South African.

Golden wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

profitius wrote:2 more non Irish = joke. Payne and Nathan White to come next season along with Strauss. Its becoming a joke now.

Kinda agree but neither Ah You or Herring will get capped Id say. Interestingly France who seem to love naturalising decent rugby players dont have any foreigners in their 6N squad.

Herring is as Irish as Tom Court or Isaac Boss. Think Diack is the second one.

For some reason I thought Diack had already been capped.

geoff999rugby wrote:For completeness the omitted players mentioned

They include Richardt Strauss, Donnacha Ryan, Roger Wilson, Tommy Bowe, Simon Zebo, Declan Fitzpatrick and Craig Gilroy. Some of these players may yet return for RBS 6 Nations matches.

There is also the injured group of Sean O'Brien, Stephen Ferris, Mike Sherry and Stuart Olding who will be unavailable in the longer term.

Re Wilson I guess the face doesnt fit.

geoff998rugby wrote:Totally disagree that McFadden is automatic pick.

He has taken his chance with a lot out .

When Bowe, Zebo, Earls and Gilroy are all fully match fit he will not make the team

I'll bet 5 euros to any taker that Schmidt never picks a 22 for full international against a tier 1 team without a fit McFadden. Gilroy and Zebo are someway down the pecking order by the looks of it.

Schmidt doesn't like out and out finishers on the wing - that's why Conway and Carr didn't fit the bill at Leinster - he prefers footballers like Nacewa, McFadden, Fitzgerald, Kearney 2 - guys who create and offload rather than have genuine pace and finishing ability. Schmidt prefers to open teams up the middle than create out wide.

GunsGerms wrote:
Re Wilson I guess the face doesnt fit.

Wilson isn't playing well enough this season to be honest - Diack, Ruddock, Copeland etc. have been much more impressive as have Heaslip and POM, maybe Coughlin too.

I don't think he can feel hard done by, same with McLaughlin.

Re: Diack, he's been outstanding and full deserves his call up. For me Ulster's player of the season so far.

rodders wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:Totally disagree that McFadden is automatic pick.

He has taken his chance with a lot out .

When Bowe, Zebo, Earls and Gilroy are all fully match fit he will not make the team

I'll bet 5 euros to any taker that Schmidt never picks a 22 for full international against a tier 1 team without a fit McFadden. Gilroy and Zebo are someway down the pecking order by the looks of it.

Schmidt doesn't like out and out finishers on the wing - that's why Conway and Carr didn't fit the bill at Leinster - he prefers footballers like Nacewa, McFadden, Fitzgerald, Kearney 2 - guys who create and offload rather than have genuine pace and finishing ability. Schmidt prefers to open teams up the middle than create out wide.  

Hi Rodders, how are you today?

Kearney and Nacewa are fairly good finishers. Mcfadden's try scoring record suggests he is too. Granted I'd say Gilroy is more of a finisher alright but I'd say McFadden makes squads because he covers a number of positions and he can kick.

Conway and Carr just werent good enough, simple as that.

I think opening up teams in the middle is something this Ireland team has missed in recent years at times.

I think zebo could probably benefit from a reality check anyway.

rodders wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:
Re Wilson I guess the face doesnt fit.

Wilson isn't playing well enough this season to be honest - Diack, Ruddock, Copeland etc. have been much more impressive as have Heaslip and POM, maybe Coughlin too.

I don't think he can feel hard done by, same with McLaughlin.

Re: Diack, he's been outstanding and full deserves his call up. For me Ulster's player of the season so far.

Not really a Coughlin fan at all. He has feet for hands.

GunsGerms wrote:
Hi Rodders, how are you today?

Kearney and Nacewa are fairly good finishers. Mcfadden's try scoring record suggests he is too. Granted I'd say Gilroy is more of a finisher alright but I'd say McFadden makes squads because he covers a number of positions and he can kick.

Conway and Carr just werent good enough, simple as that.

I think opening up teams in the middle is something this Ireland team has missed in recent years at times.

I think zebo could probably benefit from a reality check anyway.

Hey guns, I'm good thanks...will try and be less on the wind up today - sorry keef ...  

Yeah McFadden scores a lot at close range or through the middle - I just mean Schmidt tends to go with Footballing ability more than genuine pace - he likes players just to do the basic, hit the gap and offload with the short pass. I think he would see Gilroy and Zebo, maybe even Bowe, Earls, Trimble as players with potential but need a bit of work, whereas McFadden and Fitz know exactly what he wants.

He likes wings with a good kicking game too.

Rodders will have to agree to disagree on the question of wingers

Feel free to be yourself. I am constantly winding people up myself.

I absolutly cannot wait for the 6 nations this year. February is my favorite month.

GunsGerms wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:For completeness the omitted players mentioned

They include Richardt Strauss, Donnacha Ryan, Roger Wilson, Tommy Bowe, Simon Zebo, Declan Fitzpatrick and Craig Gilroy. Some of these players may yet return for RBS 6 Nations matches.

There is also the injured group of Sean O'Brien, Stephen Ferris, Mike Sherry and Stuart Olding who will be unavailable in the longer term.

Re Wilson I guess the face doesnt fit.

Why do you say that?

The announcement makes clear he would have been included but for an injury

Coughlan on the other hand is another, like P.Marshall, Court and Downey with no international future by the look of it

I was just joking. Referring to Darren Cave's recent comments. He said that his face doesnt fit and thats why he isnt getting selected and why Wilson keeps getting snubbed for Heaslip. He has since apologiesd to Wilson and Heaslip.

Im not bothered about Downey or Court at all but feel bad re Marshall. I reckon he is unlucky not to get picked. However, it doesnt help that Piennar is Ulsters number1. Marshall is definitely as good a player if not much better as Tomas O'Leary who won 24 ireland caps and a grand slam.

Personally Geoff I'd go with Bowe (on reputation) and Fitzgerald (on form) - in Bowe's absence there's not much between the rest, I like the look of Kearney for his all round play but think Zebo and Gilroy have more attacking potential.

I just think Joe loves McFadden, who in fairness always seems to bounce back from poor performances and always seem to find a few improvements here and there. If he's fit I believe he'll be there somewhere - ahead of Earls, Zebo, Trimble and Gilroy.

Last season there was a big case for Trimble because he was in sensational form but he hasn't hit that level this season yet.

I wouldnt be upset if any of the guys you mentioned were picked rodders. I think they are all quality including an off form Trimble. We have some really decent wingers and they all have their strengths and weaknesses.

I agree.....as long as he doesn't pick Earls ....

rodders wrote:I agree.....as long as he doesn't pick Earls ....

Sure he'll be in the centre Rodders   

Golden wrote:

rodders wrote:I agree.....as long as he doesn't pick Earls ....

Sure he'll be in the centre Rodders   

Yeah he'll be at the centre of bombing some try .....   

...ok stop... no more winding up the munster boys.....   

No problem Guns. (re Wilson)
Personnally I do not think Marshall is good enough.

Other than Murray I hope we only see Marmion in an Ireland 9 shirt.

profitius wrote:I think McFadden just injured his hand. So he would be able to train etc at a higher level

I seem to remember Tommy Bowe "just injured a hand" on the Lions tour. Yet when he came back he was so off the pace of the game it was quite sad really. Are you suggesting that McFadden is such a great player that he can come straight back into the team without ANY game time since November?

I am all for picking a sound goal kicker regardless of their worth in other parts of the field. Toulouse never looked like scoring a try on the weekend and they won by kicking all their goals. This often happens. But if McFadden is to be Ireland's back-up kicker I would like to see him being the usual kicker for Leinster rather than being used because Madigan or Gopperth is having an off day.

I dont buy this McFadden selected as a back up kicker arguement.

The back up kicker will be the guy on the bench be it Jackson or Madigan

geoff998rugby wrote:No problem Guns. (re Wilson)
Personnally I do not think Marshall is good enough.

Other than Murray I hope we only see Marmion in an Ireland 9 shirt.

The Murray/Marmion combo could be amazing. Murray to boss a game and play the big teams, Marmion to come on if we're behind and speed things up/put big scores up on weaker teams.

Have to disagree Rodders I think Wilson has had a bloody good season. He has had some dodgy games but according to reports he has been injured for the last two months but kept going because we were short. All in all I think he has been very good. I'm not disappointed he hasn't been called up mind you and Diack has been better

Looks like Earls is out of the 6 nations.

profitius wrote:Looks like Earls is out of the 6 nations.

That's tough on him, he was showing up well the last few matches. Zebo looks like he is in good form though, so might not be as bad an overall loss.

OK after the weekend:

15 Kearney
14 Zebo
13 ...well it will be BOD won't it..
12 D'arcy
11 Fitzgerald
10 Jackson
9 Murray.... close call with Reddan
8 Heaslip
7 Henry
6 O'Mahoney
5 Toner
4 O'Connell
3 Moore
2 Best
1 Healy

Going up - Coughlan, O'Donnell, Wilson, Trimble, Marshall, Murphy, Morris, Touhy, Henderson, Reddan, Boss, Keatley, Jones, Healy, O'Mahoney, Downey


Going down - Rodney Ah You, Connacht.

rodders wrote:OK after the weekend:

15 Kearney
14 Zebo
13 ...well it will be BOD won't it..
12 D'arcy
11 Fitzgerald
10 Jackson
9 Murray.... close call with Reddan
8 Heaslip
7 Henry
6 O'Mahoney
5 Toner
4 O'Connell
3 Moore
2 Best
1 Healy

Going up - Coughlan, O'Donnell, Wilson, Trimble, Marshall, Murphy, Morris, Touhy, Henderson, Reddan, Boss, Keatley, Jones, Healy, O'Mahoney, Downey  


Going down - Rodney Ah You, Connacht.

How come Sexton didn't start and wasn't on the bench for racing?

No idea...oops forgot to add Johny to the going down list...

slane wrote:

rodders wrote:OK after the weekend:

15 Kearney
14 Zebo
13 ...well it will be BOD won't it..
12 D'arcy
11 Fitzgerald
10 Jackson
9 Murray.... close call with Reddan
8 Heaslip
7 Henry
6 O'Mahoney
5 Toner
4 O'Connell
3 Moore
2 Best
1 Healy

Going up - Coughlan, O'Donnell, Wilson, Trimble, Marshall, Murphy, Morris, Touhy, Henderson, Reddan, Boss, Keatley, Jones, Healy, O'Mahoney, Downey  


Going down - Rodney Ah You, Connacht.

How come Sexton didn't start and wasn't on the bench for racing?

Because Racing were out of the tournament and rested him

geoff998rugby wrote:

slane wrote:

rodders wrote:OK after the weekend:

15 Kearney
14 Zebo
13 ...well it will be BOD won't it..
12 D'arcy
11 Fitzgerald
10 Jackson
9 Murray.... close call with Reddan
8 Heaslip
7 Henry
6 O'Mahoney
5 Toner
4 O'Connell
3 Moore
2 Best
1 Healy

Going up - Coughlan, O'Donnell, Wilson, Trimble, Marshall, Murphy, Morris, Touhy, Henderson, Reddan, Boss, Keatley, Jones, Healy, O'Mahoney, Downey  


Going down - Rodney Ah You, Connacht.

How come Sexton didn't start and wasn't on the bench for racing?

Because Racing were out of the tournament and rested him

Good of them, think the guy could do with a rest, really hope he's fired up coming into the Irish training squad. With Jackson on his heels he needs to up his game for Ireland, under Schmidt I'd expect to see the best of Sexton as we did when he was at Leinster under Schmidt.

Zebo and Gilroy have been called up to the squad. Id guess that they plus Mcfadden will get some game time in the Wolfhounds game. Could be a really strong team

Bloody hell there's more wings in the squad than there is in the whole Ryanair fleet.

Ryanair have introduced planes with wings on them?

My Lord, isn't O'Leary getting posh in his old age! But I suppose it'll be a hidden extra on the ticket to actually fly one of those.

Or it'll be like those half fair offers he had on last summer, where they let you out over the irish sea.

They kill you with the hidden parachute charges though.

Bet they play him this week v Toulouse at home.

geoff998rugby wrote:

slane wrote:

rodders wrote:OK after the weekend:

15 Kearney
14 Zebo
13 ...well it will be BOD won't it..
12 D'arcy
11 Fitzgerald
10 Jackson
9 Murray.... close call with Reddan
8 Heaslip
7 Henry
6 O'Mahoney
5 Toner
4 O'Connell
3 Moore
2 Best
1 Healy

Going up - Coughlan, O'Donnell, Wilson, Trimble, Marshall, Murphy, Morris, Touhy, Henderson, Reddan, Boss, Keatley, Jones, Healy, O'Mahoney, Downey  


Going down - Rodney Ah You, Connacht.

How come Sexton didn't start and wasn't on the bench for racing?

Because Racing were out of the tournament and rested him

Sexton just got man of the match in a 25-5 win over Toulouse,hopefully a sign of things to come.

Not sure if this was put anywhere else but Ireland signed a deal confirming Canterbury as their Kit supplier til 2020.

Good news, I prefer them to Puma.

Hopefullly theres a good few sheckels involved as well.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/30560.php

There's some really interesting analysis on the score lately.This is a great piece on Ian Henderson.
http://www.thescore.ie/iain-henderson-ireland-six-nations-1287383-Jan2014/

There are some other pieces on Paul O'Connell,Luke Fitzgerald,Sexton and the Leinster midfield it's a real step up from what we get in the national papers.

http://www.thescore.ie/analysis/news/

Golden wrote:Not sure if this was put anywhere else but Ireland signed a deal confirming Canterbury as their Kit supplier til 2020.

Good news, I prefer them to Puma.

Hopefullly theres a good few sheckels involved as well.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/30560.php

Puma paid 11.5 million euro to cancel the deal early as well. From their bank account, straight to Jamie and SOB.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:There's some really interesting analysis on the score lately.This is a great piece on Ian Henderson.
http://www.thescore.ie/iain-henderson-ireland-six-nations-1287383-Jan2014/

Yea saw that piece on Hendo on V3 - he's a ridiculously talented player you know...he's had a few injuries recently though and people need to be patient. Next season will be a big one I think.

I'm really happy with Toner and Touhy's form and McCarthy won't let anyone down either. With Ryan to come back lock is pretty strong.

Henderson will be better than all of the above though, its just a matter of time.