Ireland moving forward

First topic message reminder :

Feel for the Irish boys after yesterday but a few things stood out for me:

We didn't score in 2nd half so I find it hard to say we deserved to win. We still struggle to close out games similar to the French game at Croke Park. I feel these issues have a lot to do with self belief which I think we as nation have struggled with for a long time in sport if I'm being honest. I feel this is JS big challenge with this team and if he can get them believing and producing performances like yesterday on a consistent basis then we'll do some damage in 6 nations and world cups.

Ireland are a different team when they keep ball in hand and don't kick the ball away constantly. This was a really pleasing part of yesterday with all the players backing themselves and each other to keep the ball in hand to put the ABs under pressure. This is without doubt the way forward as shown by the ABs themselves. Encouraging signs from the new coaching set up.

The effort and commitment yesterday was immense. It was the sort of display that made you proud to be Irish. SOB, Healy, POC and Heaslip in particular produced some of the best individual performances I've seen in a long time.

Congrats to NZ. Still the benchmark for how rugby should be played.

Also great to see the new Lansdowne Road rocking.

Standulstermen wrote:I think fitz, Henshaw and Olding could all come into the mix at centre for Ireland. Farrell and Daly too if we are looking longer term. That said if we look at form Payne will be in the Ireland squad. He oozes class.

What happens when he is that position we have to wait and see. Certainly given his age I cant see Payne being a long, long term option.

Depends what you mean by long term.

Payne will be 29 when he becomes Irish qualified - cant see why player of his ability cant give 5 years service i.e. up to the 2019 WC.
No one is going to be looking longer term than that

I'm not certain he will last that long Geoff. With rugby becoming more attritional I can't see it. BOD has only barely lasted as long as he has and he is an all time great. I guess I would hope that by the time Payne would be 34 odd we would have delivered a youngster coming through to usurp him

I said elsewhere, Fitz is destined to be our utility back bench option (and a very good one). I expect with the addition of payne, we might see a lot fewer international opportunities for the likes of Madigan, Mcfadden, and Dave Kearney.

Fitz covers 11-15. I expect Gilroy to be nailed on come six nations and beyond with Bowe and Kearney probably also nailed on. (although Bowe's form is currently below his standards).

Standulstermen wrote:I'm not certain he will last that long Geoff. With rugby becoming more attritional I can't see it. BOD has only barely lasted as long as he has and he is an all time great. I guess I would hope that by the time Payne would be 34 odd we would have delivered a youngster coming through to usurp him

You never know some players last longer than others. The fact that Payne has never been an international may mean he has more years in him. Who knows, time will tell.

clivemcl wrote:
Fitz covers 11-15. I expect Gilroy to be nailed on come six nations and beyond with Bowe and Kearney probably also nailed on. (although Bowe's form is currently below his standards).

Don't forget Zebo.

Bowe's form is quite bad by his standards. He is if anything at times an underrated player but he just isnt getting it right at the moment. Very smart player.

We have a real wealth of first class wingers ATM. Trimble, Bowe, Zebo, Earls, McFadden, DKearney, Gilroy. Thats a great group to pick from.

Even guys like Carr, Murphy and Conway are better that guys we have capped in the past.

Anyone interested in getting six nations tickets through the Ireland supporters club the deadline for membership is the 2nd Dec to be in with a chance of getting tickets.

Fitzgerald has never been the same since his long layoff. He was tried at length at full back and did not impress. He doesn't seem now to have the pace for wing - backed up with his poor try return playing there. So the only positions Fitz can really be considered for are in the centre and therefore he probably offers less utility than McFadden.

Earls, Zebo, DKearney and Gilroy can all play 15 better than LF. Olding covers 10, 12, 13 and 15 so I'd say Fitzgerald shouldn't be banking on a utility player slot - he will have to make it as a specialised centre.

Any thoughts on David Nucifora? Personally I think his appointment will be good for Irish rugby.

Things are looking up as well, you have a player returning to boost the ranks. We do have the chance of getting him back in 5 years though...anyone know this sprightly chappy?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11164553

Taylorman wrote:Things are looking up as well, you have a player returning to boost the ranks. We do have the chance of getting him back in 5 years though...anyone know this sprightly chappy?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11164553

That bit with the cop sounds more like a Samoan rugby trick  

Taylorman wrote:Things are looking up as well, you have a player returning to boost the ranks. We do have the chance of getting him back in 5 years though...anyone know this sprightly chappy?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11164553

Cant deny that some Kiwi judges have some sense of humour :

. You were in New Zealand as a guest ... You have very severe alcohol abuse problems. We have enough young men in this country with alcohol problems without importing them

I think Fitz and Marshall could make a pretty good centre partnership myself. I would definitely like to see it anyway against a team during the 6Nations. I'm hoping that Fitz starts getting game time of a meaningful nature for Leinster.

Tiquiri, Kearney, Kearney2, McFadden, Kershner, Hudson are all options in the back 3 positions. I think Fitz will play there too but I'd be hoping he'd get some proper time at 13.

Would also love to see

-Henderson get some time at lock
-Fitzpatrick/Moore start to displace Ross
-Marmion to displace Reddan/Boss
-Henshaw and Olding to make more of an impact at international level

Anyone else heard the rumour about Jack McGrath coming to Ulster with one of our centres going the other way?

Very poor trade - unless it's Paddy Wallace finally getting the move he should have had 10 years ago...

Yeah, wouldn't be keen on it myself. If Paddy McAllister gets fit again he has the potential to be every bit as good as McGrath.

But from an IRFU pov I can see why they might want their number 1 and 2 looseheads at different provinces as first choice. And Leinster are short of cover in the centres, Noel Reid and Brendan Macken are pretty underwhelming. But only centre I could see leaving and it being a fair trade would be Chris Farrell. Losing Cave, Olding or Marshall would be a disaster no matter who we got in return.

In fact, Farrell would be the only player I would be happy to lose as a condition of getting McGrath. Wouldn't want to lose a single other member of our backline. If the rumour is true, I hope it's either McGrath with no strings attached or nothing because losing a player to Leinster for a guy who is not guaranteed to be first choice once McAllister gets fit...

Strange how perceptions can differ,I'd be very disappointed to lose McGrath for anyone other than Olding or Cave (Marshall isn't realistic),I don't see why we'd swap a proven HC class player and recent international for a promising but unproven player.

I guess that if it was Cave it would be the closest to being fair... but you need guys like Darren Cave. Exceptional club players. Losing him would be a kick in the balls when we are already in decent shape at loosehead.

Any chance they're considering trying McAllister at TH,I heard they were considering it before his injury so McGrath moving might make sense if they decided to go for it.

I don't think so, think he'll stay at loosehead.

I wouldn't be happy to see Cave go, but it would boost his Test chances considerably with Leinster. Like Bowe he would suddenly be seen as a contender by simply moving teams.

Ulster will have Payne directed into playing 13 and with Olding, Marshall, Farrell, Allen and maybe Wallace still around there is a surfeit of centres.

McGrath was on the same U20's side as McAllister and Macklin so he would at least have some guys he knew at Ulster if the move were to happen. Ulster could have a phrase "scrum to the max" as a byproduct. Not quite a 'Mc' but whatever happened to Stuart Maguire?

The Great Aukster wrote:I wouldn't be happy to see Cave go, but it would boost his Test chances considerably with Leinster. Like Bowe he would suddenly be seen as a contender by simply moving teams.

Ulster will have Payne directed into playing 13 and with Olding, Marshall, Farrell, Allen and maybe Wallace still around there is a surfeit of centres.

McGrath was on the same U20's side as McAllister and Macklin so he would at least have some guys he knew at Ulster if the move were to happen. Ulster could have a phrase "scrum to the max" as a byproduct. Not quite a 'Mc' but whatever happened to Stuart Maguire?

I don't think so,Schmidt isn't going to suddenly think he's a better player just because he wears a blue jersey instead of a white one.What will help his international prospects is BoD retiring,he'll have a good shot of getting a game on the summer tour imo.

Boss moving to Leinster rescued him from the International Scrapheap because he showed his worth in direct comparison to Reddan.

Schmidt doesn't strike me as being someone who would be influenced by the media as much as EOS or Kidney were, but if say Cave were to partner D'Arcy successfully at Leinster it would be hard to deny the media cries for that partnership for Ireland.

I always had the feeling that Cave, like the likes of Rory Best and Trimble are die hard Ulstermen who wouldn't want to play elsewhere let alone another province.

I just really hope its not actually Payne they are talking about - replacing BOD both at country and club.

 

Supporters club 6 nations tickets on sale tomorrow.

SA, AUS and probably Georgia for the next AIs. Happy with that.

They don't appear to have confirmed the details of the Argentina tour yet. Strange to announce the Autumn Internationals before the summer tour.

Looks like we'll have to wait for the World Cup final to get our first win over NZ.  

http://www.espn.co.uk/argentina/rugby/story/208549.html?CMP=OTC-RSS

In amongst this article it's confirmed we are playing two tests against Argentina in June.

If it's Cave, then I hope he has some plastic surgery before turning up for first day practice. You know how we Southerners are about faces that don't fit - we get pretty snooty about those kinds of detail

...and first Leinsterman to pat him on the back and welcome him is..................... the guy who wears his trousers too low! Cameras ready for that monent Pap guys!

Lads, I can see Ferris being used mainly as an impact sub for the rest of his career. Thats the best we can hope for I'd say.


Can anyone name the newcomers team of the season so far? I'll give it a go.

15 ?
14 ?
13 Henshaw
12 Olding
11 ?
10 Hanrahan
9 Marmion
1 Cronin
2 Henry/Herring
3 Moore
4 ?
5 ?
6 ?
7 ?
8 ?

profitius wrote:Lads, I can see Ferris being used mainly as an impact sub for the rest of his career. Thats the best we can hope for I'd say.


Can anyone name the newcomers team of the season so far? I'll give it a go.

15 ?
14 ?
13 Henshaw
12 Olding
11 ?
10 Hanrahan
9 Marmion
1 Cronin
2 Henry/Herring
3 Moore
4 ?
5 ?
6 ?
7 ?
8 ?

Jordi Murphy at 8 and could Ruddock be considered a newcomer at 6?Possibly not but I can't think of anyone else,Tommy O'Donnell at 7 I think.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

profitius wrote:Lads, I can see Ferris being used mainly as an impact sub for the rest of his career. Thats the best we can hope for I'd say.


Can anyone name the newcomers team of the season so far? I'll give it a go.

15 ?
14 ?
13 Henshaw
12 Olding
11 ?
10 Hanrahan
9 Marmion
1 Cronin
2 Henry/Herring
3 Moore
4 ?
5 ?
6 ?
7 ?
8 ?

Jordi Murphy at 8 and could Ruddock be considered a newcomer at 6?Possibly not but I can't think of anyone else,Tommy O'Donnell at 7 I think.

Actually apologies, I should have been more clear what I ment. I was thinking of new, young players putting their hands up for Ireland selection. Jordi Murphy got MOTM tonight and Ruddock has been playing well so they could slot in there.


Marty Moore had a good game tonight and the scrum noticeably weakened when Ross came on.

SOB expected ti miss the first 3 games of the 6 nations at least.

Major blow to Schmidts first international tournament

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/25548969

I also notice Cian Healy is out. I really can't rate Healy highly enough. The guy is a work horse, and an immense presence at the ruck, and fantastic turn over operator. Ireland will miss him sorely.

A shame to disrupt Ireland's momentum with crucial injuries going into the 6N.

Healy will probably miss the start of the 6N as he had an ankle operation. Any team would probably miss him. However, in Jack McGrath we have a really really good deputy and will plug the hole nicely until Healy is back. McGrath is certainly one to watch.

In the front row we will also miss Best who was one of Irelands best players this year. However, above all we will miss O'Brien. He is virtually irreplacable.

I've seen Tommy O'Donnell play a couple of times and was seriously impressed. With O'Brien out will be play openside for Ireland in the 6 Nations?

funnyExiledScot wrote:I've seen Tommy O'Donnell play a couple of times and was seriously impressed. With O'Brien out will be play openside for Ireland in the 6 Nations?

Yeah he has been playing well. He is uncapped though so they might go with more tried and tested options like Chris Henry or even switch POM to 7 I dont know. He has a chance anyway and will definitely make the squad I'd say.

Hmm, I wouldn't suggest moving POM to 7. Very much a blindside sort of player in my view, and he's hugely improved his game in that position this season.

One thing the Irish side is not short of is caps, so I see no better opportunity than now to give O'Donnell a run of games at 7. This 6 Nations could be a big opportunity for players like McGrath and O'Donnell, and a great opportunity for Ireland to develop some depth of experience in the pack.

GunsGerms wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:I've seen Tommy O'Donnell play a couple of times and was seriously impressed. With O'Brien out will be play openside for Ireland in the 6 Nations?

Yeah he has been playing well. He is uncapped though so they might go with more tried and tested options like Chris Henry or even switch POM to 7 I dont know. He has a chance anyway and will definitely make the squad I'd say.

He was capped during the summer. Started against Canada & subbed against USA. He was injured for the AIs.

I even watched the USA match!!

GunsGerms wrote:I even watched the USA match!!

He was only on for about 4 minutes I think so its hardly surprising you missed him!

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:I even watched the USA match!!

He was only on for about 4 minutes I think so its hardly surprising you missed him!

Thanks Statto.  

Losing O'Brien is huge. But not a complete disaster. We have a good few talented backrowers at all the provinces. Mostly untested at 6 Nations, but still some pretty good players.

The only way for players to cease being "untested" is to test them. You know that O'Brien, fitness provided, is going to be a nailed on starter for you at the next World Cup. I'd use this injury to slap the 7 jersey on O'Donnell's back and give him 5 consecutive games to prove his worth. That way, if SOB gets injured before or during the World Cup, you'll have someone who is "tested".

It's stating the obvious as well, but you've got to sort out your centres. D'Arcy and BOD at 35 and 36 respectively come the next World Cup are not a long term solution. You have a Lions half back pairing and plenty experience in the back three with Fitzgerald, Bowe and Kearney (and the hugely exciting Simon Zebo), so now is the time to find a longer term solution in the centres. The best combination is often not the best two individuals, so you need to allow time through the tournament for some tinkering. Schmidt is unlikely to stumble of the perfect combination at the first time of asking.

I know it's not fashionable to look outside of Ireland for new caps, but Eamonn Sheridan at LI really impressed me against Glaws. Players like Olding and Marshall are great ball players, but if you want someone a little bit more robust then his lad has potential, and he ran some really great lines off Shane Geraghty as well.

funnyExiledScot wrote:I've seen Tommy O'Donnell play a couple of times and was seriously impressed. With O'Brien out will be play openside for Ireland in the 6 Nations?

It would be the most sensible option in my mind. Munster player of the season last year, works superbly well with O'Mahony at 6 and he certainly looks to have the physicality required to play at the highest level.

I wouldn't complain if Henry plays 7 either though, but I think TOD has more potential.

6) O'Mahony
7) O'Donnell
8) Heaslip

Could be more balanced than any back row we have seen for some time.

Any thoughts on Jordi Murphy getting called into the irish squad this 6 nations? Or is it too early for him?

Murphy plays across the backrow which is an advantage.

I don't think we can win this 6 Nations. We play England and France away. We've already lost Healy, Best and O'Brien. I'd lean a little more towards squad building and development wherever possible in Schmidt's first year. So I think a guys like Murphy and O'Donnell should be in there.